Politics So...Europe then?

[Scouse]

It's clear from your posts that you haven't even a basic grasp of how these things work @Job.

 

[Gwadien]

@Scouse @Job is saying that we can have a investment revolution, and America will just smile and follow suit, god.

 

[old.user4556]

As said before, and as the demographics and voting patterns bore out, voting out was mainly a working-class protest rage vote against elites. And as Herr Ukipper quickly admitted, a lot of people aren't going to be getting what they think they voted for.

I paused it and had a vigorous fap over Suz.

 

[old.user4556]

I see there's a petition for a second referendum that crashed the government's website.

 

[fettoken]

Old miserable fucks that voted to leave. @Job @Jupitus ?

 

[Job]

It's clear from your posts that you haven't even a basic grasp of how these things work @Job.

Work is the last thing they do, the whole thing is based on fresh air, that's why it crashes very few years, if you add together yearly growth since the industrial revolution, then we should all be billionaires, as it is the Stock market loses it all consistantly.
You are so locked into the notion of share gambling that anyone suggesting otherwise doesn't understand it?
It has long, long diverted from it's original concept and we are all enslaved by it.

 

[Sturty]

As said before, and as the demographics and voting patterns bore out, voting out was mainly a working-class protest rage vote against elites. And as quickly admitted, a lot of people aren't going to be getting what they think they voted for.

I'll agree that there have no doubt been people that voted after simply listening to sound bites sure, but that's the same in every election.

I don't think that it's as simple as a working class protest.

I think the vote could have been a heater win for leave if I'm honest. Sure, Scotland voted to remain but how much of that was driven by the nationalists wanting to force another independence vote.

Personally, I think there's a few difficult years ahead if we actually leave but I think that now, for the UK it's the right move.

Europe is uncertain and whilst there are some positives for remaining in it the constant economic crisis is quickly accelerating a deeper unity.

Time will tell, this generation will either been seen as saviours or traitors in years to come.

So Gwaiden, you didn't vote with self interest but are now willing to leave the country because you didn't get your own way? You think the country is ruined?

You think things are easier and better to fix from inside, but when presented with a comparable situation, like you leaving the UK because you think it's 'broken' instead of staying and trying to 'fix' it from the inside' you'd rather leave ...

English isn't great, not sure that bit makes the sense I wanted to.

 

[Job]

Old miserable fucks that voted to leave. @Job @Jupitus ?

Well Liverpool as whole voted remain, including my local area of Sefton, but I voted invade, but had to change the form, it seemed to be left off mine.

 

[Raven]

Lots of snobs upset. Great

 

[DaGaffer]

Said it on FB this morning (while Deebs was manfully trying to fix this place); the economy isn't the issue; there will be a hit, but in the long run things will stabilise, and the reality is there will be some type of EFTA deal which will include free movement of labour, because its probably the only option that will actually give British business any kind of hope of competitiveness.

That's not where my problem is; what's heartbreaking is that the end of the UK is nigh; the Scottish and NI votes were stark (in NI's case the county distribution of Leave and Remain also shows what a sham the "protestant majority" six counties really is); and there will be a clamour for referenda, and this time they'll be gone, leaving "England & Wales", which is right up there with "Bosnia-Herzegovina" or "Trinidad & Tobago" on the world stage.

In addition, I still don't really understand what the Brexiters expect to happen once the UK has left. The key leave demographic are mainly white, older, feel disenfranchised and with fewer economic opportunities (I know that's oversimplifying, but its broadly true). Will these people see more economic opportunity? Will they see fewer foreigners? Will they have more of a stake in the running of the country? To which the answers are no, no and maybe (because if nothing else this shows 2/3 of ALL MPs don't represent the views of their constituents, so maybe they all need to go?). And if even that last thing turns out to be true, and England gets more democracy, then maybe its worth it (one of the very few Leavers I know who's opinion I respect quoted Tony Benn's view that "It is better to live under a bad parliament than a benign king"), but I'm not holding my breath, because 99% of politicians are venal cunts and bad parliaments are only better than benign kings if they ever stop being bad parliaments.

As for me, I've been out of the UK for eight years now and I doubt I'll ever go back for good unless I absolutely have to. Maybe its time to put in that Irish citizenship application. It says I need to be of good character but I'm sure I can lie about that

 

[Job]

I'll agree that there have no doubt been people that voted after simply listening to sound bites sure, but that's the same in every election.

I don't think that it's as simple as a working class protest.


I think the vote could have been a heater win for leave if I'm honest. Sure, Scotland voted to remain but how much of that was driven by the nationalists wanting to force another independence vote.

Personally, I think there's a few difficult years ahead if we actually leave but I think that now, for the UK it's the right move.

Europe is uncertain and whilst there are some positives for remaining in it the constant economic crisis is quickly accelerating a deeper unity.

Time will tell, this generation will either been seen as saviours or traitors in years to come.

So Gwaiden, you didn't vote with self interest but are now willing to leave the country because you didn't get your own way? You think the country is ruined?

You think things are easier and better to fix from inside, but when presented with a comparable situation, like you leaving the UK because you think it's 'broken' instead of staying and trying to 'fix' it from the inside' you'd rather leave ...

English isn't great, not sure that bit makes the sense I wanted to.

We can't fix it, our protests are ignored, they have to ignore them, because it is like a camel trading market in Baghdad, so many people shouting and blocking and all with different vested interests and political pressure from home, an utter shambles that only works through dictatorship.

 

[old.user4556]

Morgan Stanley just announced they're moving 2000 London based jobs to Dublin or Frankfurt.

 

[dysfunction]

I might have to move to Dublin too.

 

[Sturty]

Said it on FB this morning (while Deebs was manfully trying to fix this place); the economy isn't the issue; there will be a hit, but in the long run things will stabilise, and the reality is there will be some type of EFTA deal which will include free movement of labour, because its probably the only option that will actually give British business any kind of hope of competitiveness.

That's not where my problem is; what's heartbreaking is that the end of the UK is nigh; the Scottish and NI votes were stark (in NI's case the county distribution of Leave and Remain also shows what a sham the "protestant majority" six counties really is); and there will be a clamour for referenda, and this time they'll be gone, leaving "England & Wales", which is right up there with "Bosnia-Herzegovina" or "Trinidad & Tobago" on the world stage.

In addition, I still don't really understand what the Brexiters expect to happen once the UK has left. The key leave demographic are mainly white, older, feel disenfranchised and with fewer economic opportunities (I know that's oversimplifying, but its broadly true). Will these people see more economic opportunity? Will they see fewer foreigners? Will they have more of a stake in the running of the country? To which the answers are no, no and maybe (because if nothing else this shows 2/3 of ALL MPs don't represent the views of their constituents, so maybe they all need to go?). And if even that last thing turns out to be true, and England gets more democracy, then maybe its worth it (one of the very few Leavers I know who's opinion I respect quoted Tony Benn's view that "It is better to live under a bad parliament than a benign king"), but I'm not holding my breath, because 99% of politicians are venal cunts and bad parliaments are only better than benign kings if they ever stop being bad parliaments.

As for me, I've been out of the UK for eight years now and I doubt I'll ever go back for good unless I absolutely have to. Maybe its time to put in that Irish citizenship application. It says I need to be of good character but I'm sure I can lie about that

I agree that the union splitting will be an awful shame but lately I've tired of Scotland and it pains me o say they've turned into a bit of an embarrassment.

I feel more and more that the vote for independence is primarily driven by antibenglish sentiment . After all, they want to leave a union and join another. Sure, they'll get to call themselves a legitimate state but the premise will be just the same. Infact they'll be worse off for sure

 

[old.user4556]

I agree that the union splitting will be an awful shame but lately I've tired of Scotland and it pains me o say they've turned into a bit of an embarrassment.

I feel more and more that the vote for independence is primarily driven by antibenglish sentiment .

It's for the same reasons that people wanted Brexit - they feel / felt that they're not making their own decisions. For the UK, too much Brussels meddling. For Scotland, too much Westminster meddling. They've got the perfect reason to float Indy 2, although it's not going to be as easy as some naznonalists think with the price that oil is today. They're going to have to consider higher taxation.

 

[Gwadien]

I agree that the union splitting will be an awful shame but lately I've tired of Scotland and it pains me o say they've turned into a bit of an embarrassment.

I feel more and more that the vote for independence is primarily driven by antibenglish sentiment . After all, they want to leave a union and join another. Sure, they'll get to call themselves a legitimate state but the premise will be just the same. Infact they'll be worse off for sure

I think England is the embarassment, apart from the Leave supporters, many English voters voted to get back at Labour/Tories. Which is pretty pathetic and childish.

 

[Scouse]

Morgan Stanley have announced that they're going to move 2000 staff from London to either Frankfurt or Dublin.

Their CEO has said "Brexit is the most consequential thing since the War".

The rest of the financial services organistations are following suit. HSBC (where I currently work) is shedding staff like wildfire and moving jobs to India and Poland. There was talk of moving their HQ in the event of a brexit. But at the moment I think they'll stick with the announcement to stay they made recently.

But still. Brexit. Great for jobs.


Edit: Damn you @Big G!

Lots of snobs upset. Great

Lots more poor people fucking their children's education over because they have to take their even more expensive holidays in term time.

Presuming they can hold onto their jobs, of course.

But I won't smile at that.

 

[Sturty]

It's for the same reasons that people wanted Brexit - they feel / felt that they're not making their own decisions. For the UK, too much Brussels meddling. For Scotland, too much Westminster meddling. They've got the perfect reason to float Indy 2, although it's not going to be as easy as some naznonalists think with the price that oil is today. They're going to have to consider higher taxation.

I also think that part if the leave vote had been fueled indirectly by the fact that England didn't have a devolved parliament too.

People have seized upon he opportunity to regain control in the only way presented to them.

I think it's interesting times and hope that opportunity will arise for some that wouldn't have presented itself otherwise .

Surely there is a higher probability of regaining some for of industry or trade.

If it becomes to expensive to import it could become comparable cost wise to manufacture here and no longer import etc.

Gwaiden, what's really pathetic and childish is whining about the outcome and bemoaning people for disagree in with you.

Im surprised there has been no arguments about a small percentage of the population deciding the date of the country yet.

 

[Job]

Morgan Stanley just announced they're moving 2000 London based jobs to Dublin or Frankfurt.

Purely symbolic, those jobs are disappearing anyway, you don't need to be anywhere anymore, the world is changing, automation will destroy all notions of the workplace.
Jobs going to India, of course, that would happen anyway, all we can do as the UK is hold on to our reputation as a center for excellence and keep importing top quality migrants and workers, in fact ramp it up, grab trade deals at every opportunity, relax rules and give endless tax breaks.

 

[Gwadien]

Purely symbolic, those jobs are disappearing anyway, you don't need to be anywhere anymore, the world is changing, automation will destroy all notions of the workplace.
Jobs going to India, of course, that would happen anyway, all we can do as the UK is hold on to our reputation as a center for excellence and keep importing top quality migrants and workers, in fact ramp it up, grab trade deals at every opportunity, relax rules and give endless tax breaks.

Benjamin Disraeli called, he said can you stop stealing his economic plans please.

 

[Ctuchik]

I seriously can mot wait to get Swedish citizenship later this year....

I suggest that you start making phone calls to make sure that this mess won't change your chances for that negatively. Basically what happens now is that all the free border perks UK enjoyed when it was part of EU will be nullified, so you may end up having to reapply for a citizenship again the old fashioned way.

I'm not saying your chances will change, but do make sure just in case so you don't get any nasty surprises later on.

 

[Yoni]

I suggest that you start making phone calls to make sure that this mess won't change your chances for that negatively. Basically what happens now is that all the free border perks UK enjoyed when it was part of EU will be nullified, so you may end up having to reapply for a citizenship again the old fashioned way.

I'm not saying your chances will change, but do make sure just in case so you don't get any nasty surprises later on.

Nothing changes for at least 2 years and I have been in Sweden for 5. Additionally I live with a Swedish National. I am fully aware of my situation. Do you think European countries will start sending British expats back because of a leave vote?

 

[old.user4556]

Do you think European countries will start sending British expats back because of a leave vote?

I very, very much doubt that.

 

[Yoni]

I very, very much doubt that.

It was a little rhetotrical... So much scaremongering... It needs to be stopped tbfh

 

[old.user4556]

Agree, but welcome to referendums.

What really fucks me off is Mark Carney's scare story - "doom, gloom, best interests to remain" and then today "actually, we had £LOL Billion in our back pockets in case it was a Leave" which it indeed was. Why not say that before the vote? Because he's in the politicians back pocket - independent body my fucking scrote.

 

[Moriath]

Itis kinda funny now watching loads of people moaning that the vote didnt go their way.

Votes done. We need to move on and see what the future holds. Not moan about what might have been.

 

[Scouse]

"actually, we had £LOL Billion in our back pockets in case it was a Leave

Well of course they did.

It's a central bank. If they don't have it - they print it...

 

[Bodhi]

Morgan Stanley have already said the 2,000 jobs claim was nonsense, FTSE and Sterling are back to where they were earlier in the week, so not looking quite so awful as it was this morning.

I've got to admit I went in to vote with the thought that both options appeared pretty unappealing, so haven't been too invested either way. 52 - 48 seems an awful slim majority to be jumping out with, and may explain why even Boris appears in no hurry to invoke Article 50.

Really don't think we've heard the end of this you know....

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Agree, except Euro was 1.30 last night and is currently 1.22.

 

[Moriath]

Brits may want to take their own sweet time about moving but EU seems quite adament that they want it sooner rather than later to stop destabilising the rest of the union.

Guess its like handing in your notice and having to wait three months to leave. All the time tou been interviewing etc you really arent a profitable employee lol