Politics So...Europe then?

[Raven]

Yes, right. I fucking hate students, the lot of them. Oh wait...I am a student.

Stories, would imply plural... find another one.

Friday. You can move to France if you like.

Your brand of mouth breathing won't change the result.

 

[Scouse]

I wasn't intending on moving just yet. If Brexit happens I'm sorry to say that's going to be off anyway - as the pound'll drop to the Euro level (so we may as well join, just from a lot poorer level) and we'll all be worth a lot less.

I'm glad you know what's going to happen on Friday tho @Raven. I mean, everyone else says it's too close to call, but I'm glad our resident sun-reading clairvoyant has, in a mystic meg stylee, amazing insight.

Question tho: If we remain, where are you going to move to?

 

[Raven]

Why would I? What difference would it make to me?

I am (extremely) lucky enough that it would make no difference whatsoever to me. Aside from a little more hassle at work dealing with imports, although briefly.

I am human enough to see we have an entire generation that are basically gang fucked by the banks and corps though and I would like nothing more than to see said banks and corps taken roughly from behind.

I will put a little wager on.

We vote out, you fuck off for good.

We vote in, I fuck off for good.

 

[Scouse]

Why would I? What difference would it make to me?

Oh. I just thought since you keep bringing up people moving out of the country every time there was an election of some sort it was kinda the done thing.

If you don't want to move when elections don't go your way why do you keep bringing it up like everyone else does?

 

[Raven]

Oh. I just thought since you keep bringing up people moving out of the country every time there was an election of some sort it was kinda the done thing.

Citation needed.

 

[Raven]

Yeah, the FH search function is kind of unreliable at times, isn't it? Especially when you are searching for something that never happened...

Anyway. Night night. 1 day less until your world comes crashing down

But feel free to dish out the snobbery and carry on insulting those that disagree with you, its really working, champ.

You can do it!

 

[Scouse]

I am human enough to see we have an entire generation that are basically gang fucked by the banks and corps though and I would like nothing more than to see said banks and corps taken roughly from behind.

So would I.

Unfortunately, it's bleeding obvious that a brexit vote plays directly into said corps and banks hands - and as much as you avoid the reams of evidence that show you that, I suspect you know it too but are too angry to care.

Plus, how come you now give a shit about other people?

I will put a little wager on.

We vote out, you fuck off for good.

We vote in, I fuck off for good.

Is this another leave the country thing or Raven getting too angry and more threats to leave FH again?

Chill bro. It's only real life.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Ormorof]

Its laughableto suggest that the banks and corps are going to have it tougher with government outside the EU, the Brexit brigade is runby anti-regulation anti-government interference (unless it's to bail oit saifd banks) conservatives for christ sake

If Britain makes its own trade deal with US as an example it will be far worse than TTIP

 

[dysfunction]

So @Raven are you telling me all the poor immigrants from Greece, Poland, Spain, Italy etc that are taking up all the low paid jobs are buying up all the houses??

Don't be so daft!

It's not the immigrants it's the rich foreigners from China, the middle east oil tycoons, America etc that are buying homes here for investment. They don't even live here. And quite often have never even seen the proprties they buy.

It's also the rich UK people who live here buying houses and some are foreign that do live here.

Demand for houses will not reduce!! If there is a property crash from Brexit the rich and foreign investors will snap them up!

The housing issue is purely down to UK Government not doing anything about it.

 

[Raven]

So @Raven are you telling me all the poor immigrants from Greece, Poland, Spain, Italy etc that are taking up all the low paid jobs are buying up all the houses??

Don't be so daft!

No. Buy to renter's are buying up all the houses

 

[dysfunction]

Well exactly! So demand won't reduce because those same people will keep buying after Brexit.

 

[Raven]

Except there will be less people demanding them...

Rent prices will fall, income from them will fall, house prices will fall.

 

[DaGaffer]

No. Buy to renter's are buying up all the houses

If only that were true. Buy to let mortgages are less than 15% of the market and Osbourne's changes to tax relief last year and stamp duty on second homes this are going to destroy the market for all but the very rich.

 

[TdC]

Except there will be less people demanding them...

Whatever makes you think that chum?

 

[Raven]

Because less movement of people. Not the doctors and such, they will still come but wont be after the cheap (lol) housing.

 

[Job]

This affordable houses claptrap...there are millions of affordable houses, they are the ones people don't want, what they want is an affordable house, that is actually a nice house in a nice area...and bang..it's not affordable anymore.
It is nothing to do with building ,it's because darn south you have built on every square inch so the only places left are where no one wants them...thus making them affordable if you can make a living selling premium teacakes to the locals.
If you cajole developers into building cheap houses they will immediately become expensive houses if people want to live there.

 

[Raven]

Suggest there are plenty of affordable houses to people in the South...

Up't'North doesn't matter, yes houses are cheaper, no there aren't any jobs.

 

[Scouse]

Because less movement of people.

The only reason house prices might fall is because of the recession Brexit will cause. Less jobs = less demand.

Added to the massively devalued pound we'll be right up expensive-import shit street.

 

[Job]

Lulz

The bottom 5 are in order:

It's definitely an idiots "revolt".

But that doesn't mean idiots don't get a say. You expect the under-qualified and low (or no) skilled and poorly educated to be most effected by globalisation. They're the ones who've lost their shitty non-jobs to harder working poles and other eastern europeans (who'll work for less)**.

However, because they're knuckle dragging retards they've fallen for those who'd fuck them over even further. The opportunistic chancers that prey on the idiot weak.

The sun/mail/ukip lot, they've suffered. More than most. But they don't have the intellectual capacity to understand why, so they're raging.

If they win, they may indeed get a bigger say - and will rage even harder as they get fucked over even more - and they'll turn to more and more extreme politicians in an attempt to save them. The poor stupid fucked-over retards.

And people who can grasp it? They'll get saddled with Trumps. Or worse.



**Edit: You know, the ones @Raven sees as either feckless and undeserving idiots who don't deserve their social security and DSS - or the heroic poor, revolting against "elites" in an intellectual struggle for their own self-determination, depending on which argument he's having at the time

Oh come on scouse..that graph, bit harsh the 'idiot' jibe, but does reveal a lot of the bigotry you have against people who are not clever enough to agree with you.
Ukip supporters across the bottom..really?
It's missing 'idiots who are going to vote leave'.

 

[Job]

Suggest there are plenty of affordable houses to people in the South...

Up't'North doesn't matter, yes houses are cheaper, no there aren't any jobs.

Wages are less, but the same game plays out, people stretch themselves to live in nice areas, affordable houses become expensive houses if people want to live in them.

 

[caLLous]

EU referendum: Nissan taking legal action against Vote Leave campaign over leaflet

Good stuff. Outright lying by the Leave campaign brought to the fore.

 

[Job]

Like whatever, we should have had a third campaign...'This is not about money'.
These days would have got like 3 members, even fucking Billy Bragg has turned into a Guardian reader.
Revolution is dead, now it reinvented itself as the sheeple tattoo.

 

[Scouse]

Oh come on scouse..that graph, bit harsh the 'idiot' jibe, but does reveal a lot of the bigotry you have against people who are not clever enough to agree with you.

OK - without the harsh language I used for raven, and in all seriousness:

There are lots of demographic analysis by many sources and they pretty much fit that model. And that makes sense - the low-skilled workers have seen their living standards cut, their benefits cut and these are the very people who migration and offshoring affects most sharply.

Immigrants have been coming in and taking their jobs. Their jobs have been going to India or China. Their benefits have been cut - and an uncaring public and vicious right-wing press has shown little solidarity with them - preferring to see them as shiftless spongers who aren't willing to do hard work at the wages immigrants lap up. Benefits-street wasters - in their own predicament because they're lazy, not because of the forces of globalisation can more economically shift their low-skill work elsewhere a lot cheaper.

Maybe they should have tried harder at school, eh?

No. It's a working class revolt whichever way you look at it and it's very silly getting all prissy and butthurt about it - because the facts, figures and demographics show exactly that - that the huge swathes of low-skilled in this country are the major brexiters and ukippers.

These guys have been getting shat on for years. And perversely - I've been on FH for years saying we need wholesale economic reform because these guys don't deserve to be shat on - because it's not their fault. That capitalism in it's current form is leaving them behind. And I've been repeatedly called a leftie commie socialist idiot because of exactly that.

Sound familiar?

It's not migration that is the problem here. It's a combination of low-skills and low labour-protection laws and corporate ability to easily shift their methods of production to the cheapest area or model at zero financial penalty. The rules of the world are tilted in favour of the rich.

So, they're desparate. They've been ignored. They've been utterly shat-on for years, and abandoned by not only the political class that was supposed to protect them but also their slightly-more-skilled peers - who find them distasteful.

So they want to "burn it all down". I don't blame them.


However, I cannot support them. Not for a second. I know it hurts your sensibilities to equate low-skill with low-intellect but that's simply a fact of life. The not-bright or troubled kids at school ended up at Mc D's, the bright ones with good parents in upper-working or middle class jobs. The low-skilled don't realise that their rage is utterly misplaced (at immigrants and Europe rather than at globalisation, corporate governance and their own government) and that "burning it all down" will hurt THEM the most - because it clearly plays into the hands of people who are self-confessed regulation-burners, privateers and the right wing.

The poor jump right in their sensibilities when the going gets tough. It's a natural reaction. But utterly counter productive and self-destructive. Brexit will make the very people who are going to vote for it's lives MUCH harder. And the jackals who are behind the campaign know this - but don't care. It won't particularly affect them financially and they've a lot to gain.

Whine all you like. Thems the chips.

 

[Job]

I still think it's the culture shock, people are used to being fucked over financially, but handing over your entire area to a foreign culture without asking is what nailed it.

 

[Scouse]

I still think it's the culture shock, people are used to being fucked over financially, but handing over your entire area to a foreign culture without asking is what nailed it.

Rot. That doesn't even enter the mind of most of these people - their "culture" has barely changed - apart from a lot of immigrants turning up in poor areas, but that's been the case for years anyway.

It's joblessness, financial hardship and political and social indifference to their plight that's driving them. And the dangerously unscrupulous are blaming the migrants who live next to them, exploiting them for their own ends - and the, lets say, less intellectually-well-equipped are falling for it. As they always have done.

 

[Wij]

Up't'North doesn't matter, yes houses are cheaper, no there aren't any jobs.

Bollox. There's plenty of jobs in Leeds, Manchester and places in between. The rates for my sort of work aren't that much lower than London ones either so I'm pretty sure I'm better off overall with the lower cost of living and housing taken into account.

Plus, I live in Yorkshire. Like a proper bloke.

 

[Scouse]

 

[Job]

Jeez scouse , do you get all your news from the Tower Hamlets gazette website.

 

[caLLous]