Politics So...Europe then?

[Raven]

Knowing what it is in its current form? A corrupt, bureaucratic, unaccountable, unelected shambles. No I would not.

But this is my main problem with it, I want to be in a federal Europe and be part of a European community with a transparent trans-European government. That is not what Europe (as in what Europe actually stands for now) has to offer though.

 

[throdgrain]

I wouldn't either.

 

[Job]

Let's put it a different way:

If the UK wasn't in the EU and we were voting to join it, would you vote to join? If not, why not? That should help in a decision.

Good question, I think it's hard to sell Europe to the UK, they just don't figure in our lives...the only news is bad news, Germans on the telly?
One comedien, a hitler overtoned female politician and a top gear presenter.

Europe is alien to us, they translate our shows all the time, we practically never do.
A school shooting in Delaware would get more air time than one in Barcelona.

 

[Gwadien]

Franky I'm pretty certain just going to abstain from the vote as everyone involved on both sides of the argument are a bunch of sanctimonious, self-serving fuckwits. I'd feel dirty giving any my vote.

Surely you should vote for the status quo though.

 

[Embattle]

Franky I'm pretty certain just going to abstain from the vote as everyone involved on both sides of the argument are a bunch of sanctimonious, self-serving fuckwits. I'd feel dirty giving any my vote.

I don't think any one should base their choice on the so called figure heads, aka personality voting.

I suspect the % who wouldn't join now is considerably higher than those who want out now we've been in the EU so long.

 

[Deebs]

I will be voting to leave the United States of Europe, never liked it, hated the laws/rules imposed on us.

 

[Raven]

Good question, I think it's hard to sell Europe to the UK, they just don't figure in our lives...the only news is bad news, Germans on the telly?
One comedien, a hitler overtoned female politician and a top gear presenter.

Europe is alien to us, they translate our shows all the time, we practically never do.
A school shooting in Delaware would get more air time than one in Barcelona.

What are you talking about? I have plenty of friends from Europe, I work for a European company and deal with Euros every day.

Fucking hell, even this board is mostly Euro types.

You're talking bollocks. For a lot of people Europeans are not a different set of people.

 

[Wij]

Some of you are...

FOREIGN?

 

[georgie]

Daily Express brexit campaign...by virtue of their banner design, has slight overtones...ok, not slight.

Daily Express, on the people's side to get Britain out of the European Union

From the comment section:

...we are realising this may be our last chance to escape this decaying albatross we've got round our neck.

I feel there's some mixed metaphor shit going on there.

 

[Wij]

shit going on

And here.

 

[Zarjazz]

I suspect abstaining on what is probably the most important vote of your life is a mistake.

You're probably right but honestly I can't see how either outcome will any material difference to either my own personal circumstances or the country in general. Trade with Europe will still happen, immigration will still happen, we'll still hate the Germans and the French, we'll still complain about oddly shaped fruit being banned.

 

[Gwadien]

You're probably right but honestly I can't see how either outcome will any material difference to either my own personal circumstances or the country in general. Trade with Europe will still happen, immigration will still happen, we'll still hate the Germans and the French, we'll still complain about oddly shaped fruit being banned.

I see it as a chance to drop something super broken and see how we do alone.

Conversely, I also see it as a chance to leave relatively safety and go into the unknown.

I think I'd rather know the effect that this has on our main streams as revenue as a country - as opposed to what politicians think.

 

[Zarjazz]

I think I'd rather know the effect that this has on our main streams as revenue as a country - as opposed to what politicians think.

I think that's a lot of what had put me off. Neither side is giving out facts or clear arguments. Everything is bluster & rhetoric. Also the vast majority of people have already made their minds up anyway, nothing any politician will say not is going to affect that so it's a waste of time anyway.

 

[Gwadien]

I think that's a lot of what had put me off. Neither side is giving out facts or clear arguments. Everything is bluster & rhetoric. Also the vast majority of people have already made their minds up anyway, nothing any politician will say not is going to affect that so it's a waste of time anyway.

I'd make my mind up if a major group of companies came forward and said 'Yeah, we'd be fucked' or 'Nah, we'd be cool fam.'

 

[Jupitus]

I'd make my mind up if a major group of companies came forward and said 'Yeah, we'd be fucked' or 'Nah, we'd be cool fam.'

I read somewhere today that apparently c.50% of the FTSE 100 companies' chieftans are to rally together in supporting staying in. Personally I think the state of the economic recovery is too vulnerable to risk an exit at this time and hence my preference would be to stay in (not for strong political beliefs, just what I see as practical). My concern right now is that the stay campaign seem to be doing nothing but scare-mongering instead of highlighting positives to being part of Europe, and that may polarise people for the wrong reasons.

 

[Gwadien]

I read somewhere today that apparently c.50% of the FTSE 100 companies' chieftans are to rally together in supporting staying in. Personally I think the state of the economic recovery is too vulnerable to risk an exit at this time and hence my preference would be to stay in (not for strong political beliefs, just what I see as practical). My concern right now is that the stay campaign seem to be doing nothing but scare-mongering instead of highlighting positives to being part of Europe, and that may polarise people for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment.

In an ideal world, reforms need to happen in good times in order for emotions not to take hold and make worse out of a bad situation.

Unfortunately, we're not (Supposedly) in good times at the minute, so issues like this seem like they'll fix cancer aids and the economy

 

[Embattle]

Most of the CEOs of the companies may prefer to be in but I suspect they wouldn't suddenly collapse by not being in the EU nor would the country, I suspect part of it is how hard it would be to sort out the effects of leaving.

I tend to think people are looking for guarantees regarding the economy, leaving the EU won't provide any nor do I think remaining in it gives any either.

I also suspect that while a member it suits the government to some extent, while in the EU it has also allowed some to use it as an excuse for one problem or another but if we left it becomes a tad harder to blame the EU for all our woes.

I tend to think we can easily manage outside as well as we did inside after a small transition period.

 

[Job]

What are you talking about? I have plenty of friends from Europe, I work for a European company and deal with Euros every day.

Fucking hell, even this board is mostly Euro types.

You're talking bollocks. For a lot of people Europeans are not a different set of people.

I'm talking about our media and culture, not individual friends.
The complete absence of good news from Europe in Britains news outlets says it all, we don't relate to them, well, except the Dutch and the Scandanavians.

 

[DaGaffer]

I will be voting to leave the United States of Europe, never liked it, hated the laws/rules imposed on us.

Like?

 

[DaGaffer]

Let's put it a different way:

If the UK wasn't in the EU and we were voting to join it, would you vote to join? If not, why not? That should help in a decision.

It really doesn't. If you were joining now the UK would be an utterly different country, so you can't make the comparison.

Try this instead; list 10 things the EU does to you personally that you want removed.

 

[old.user4556]

Of course it does - look at the EU as it is right now. Do you want to join the EU with all the clusterfuckerry and unelected blokes? No? Then vote out.

 

[Embattle]

I can like/dislike anyone from any where whether it be someone from Europe to someone from India, but in general I dislike the EU and I don't feel it is fit for the purpose.

I actually wonder if the whole EU elite are slowly driving some serious wedges every where amongst most the countries currently in it, which really risks blowing it all up especially if there is no root and branch reform to the EU.

 

[DaGaffer]

Of course it does - look at the EU as it is right now. Do you want to join the EU with all the clusterfuckerry and unelected blokes? No? Then vote out.

No, it doesn't because that logic completely ignores the opportunity cost of leaving. If you were coming at the EU from the outside, right now, I probably wouldn't join, but we're not outside, which changes the calculation utterly. You're engaging in whataboutery to no purpose because the UK isn't in that world.

Interestingly, I seem to remember the SNP view on EU membership when the independence vote was going on was that EU membership wasn't even up for discussion (as in "we'll automatically be in", even though Spain and others disagreed), so you may get your chance to vote on going in to the EU if brexit happens, because it will inevitably force another independence referendum.

 

[Deebs]

Like?

Abolishment of imperial measurements
Setting the VAT level
Subsidising EU farmers leading to massive amounts of food being destroyed
Setting levels on pollution, energy, the power of my hoover
etc

I am not against a free trade environment and welcome that, it is the twats in Brussels that impose things on us which are irrelevant to the country I live in. As of this time I will be voting out until much clearer facts are presented by both sides of the coin. I want this country to be governed by the Government I elected directly.

 

[Ormorof]

Vat is not set by EU, imperial system is rubbish anyway, British farmers also get CAP subsidies, less pollution is good

Many of the strange laws the EU imposes are backed by british MEPs so why keep re-electing them if they go against your beliefs?

 

[Scouse]

Yeah. All the things @Deebs mentioned are good things the EU does, or things it never did.

 

[Wij]

Yeah. All the things @Deebs mentioned are good things the EU does, or things it never did.

Bugger the rest but CAP is a disaster.

 

[old.user4556]

No, it doesn't

Yes it does. You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're making an incredibly arrogant assumption that the generic public will do their detailed homework on the subject where a significant chunk (as per Job) will take a Farage stance of "I WANT OUT BECAUSE BROWN PEOPLE".

Like the Scottish indyref, it didn't matter a fucking squirt what evidence you put in front of Scottish nationalists that it was a bad / good idea, they wanted "rid of they cunts at Westminster". Likewise with the EU ref, people want "rid of those unelected cunts in Brussels", so you're wasting your time with your intellectual reasoning and arguments.

 

[Deebs]

Vat is not set by EU, imperial system is rubbish anyway, British farmers also get CAP subsidies, less pollution is good

Many of the strange laws the EU imposes are backed by british MEPs so why keep re-electing them if they go against your beliefs?

The EU sets a minimum level of VAT which currently sits at 15% and is a requirement for membership.
I know the British farmers get CAP subsidies but what about the mountains of food that has to be destroyed? That is due to EU bollocks.
Less pollution is good but it should be our country that determines our limits and timescales. Why the fuck should some cunt in Brussels tell me I cannot purchase a 2KW hoover? I pay for the electricity I use, don't need to be treated like a fucking child.
I have never voted for an MEP of any country.

 

[Scouse]

Bugger the rest but CAP is a disaster.

Yeah, I concede on the CAP - it's totes ridik. But the UK gets the same amount as France Pro-Rata (i.e. same amount for equivalent production).