Politics So...Europe then?

[DaGaffer]

It is just a shame it'll be another thread I won't bother with even looking at, listening to the endless whining of remoaners go on and on and at the same time trying to disguise it with crap excuses.

So basically your response to "my country is circling the drain" is "la la la I'm not listening"?

Frankly you should all be marching on Parliament.

 

[Wij]

So basically your response to "my country is circling the drain" is "la la la I'm not listening"?

Frankly you should all be marching on Parliament.

Facepalm incoming

 

[caLLous]

Form an orderly line to help the people who negotiated Brexit figure out why Brexit is great.

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/GrahameLucas/status/1406159138401423360

 

[Hawkwind]

Just a passing thought but given the trade surplus on EU side a trade war will hurt their pockets more.

Ursula does seem committed to dragging the UK punishment on for years and keep it on the front pages. Problem is it will likely just turn more people against the EU. The stick is not always the best and only tool.

 

[Ormorof]

I fail to see how BoJo and crew not implementing a treaty they have signed up to is "Ursula dragging it out".

 

[Wij]

I fail to see how BoJo and crew not implementing a treaty they have signed up to is "Ursula dragging it out".

It's literally the UK 'not getting Brexit done' while the EU insists they should.

 

[Gwadien]

Just a passing thought but given the trade surplus on EU side a trade war will hurt their pockets more.

Ursula does seem committed to dragging the UK punishment on for years and keep it on the front pages. Problem is it will likely just turn more people against the EU. The stick is not always the best and only tool.

It's funny when Brexiteers claim that stuff the EU does turns people against the EU.

I think you'll find that there's more people on the continent in favour of not allowing the UK push over the EU.

I mean let's ask the Johnny-EU Foreigners here, what do you all think?

 

[Scouse]

When we brexited we signed up to being whiny bitches trying one-upmanship ad-infinitum.

I guess it's the principle of "trying it on". What'll happen is we will get concessions that weren't in the original deal.

We've been previously criticised for fully implementing previous EU deals whilst we were in the EU when other EU members didn't bother to implement them fully. We've sorta just moved to that dynamic (outside the EU).

Of course, they'll be trying it on too.



Honestly, now I don't really give a fuck. We're out. It may make us look like a shitty 3rd world country if we're trying shit on but maybe that's reality for us. Either way - there's nothing here I can get emotionally hung up on. We've bigger fish to fry and bigger problems to deal with.

 

[DaGaffer]

...there's nothing here I can get emotionally hung up on. We've bigger fish to fry and bigger problems to deal with.

And there's the British attitude towards NI in a nutshell ladies and gentlemen. We just don't give a shit.

This is not a criticism by the way @Scouse, this is just reality. But can you get NI Unionists to accept that "the mainland" doesn't give a flying fuck about them? You cannot.

I don't think UKGov ever had the slightest intention of implementing the NI Protocol properly; its too useful as a distraction.

 

[Scouse]

And there's the British attitude towards NI in a nutshell ladies and gentlemen. We just don't give a shit.

I should have qualified with "NI aside"

But I don't see that as a solveable problem - border between us and NI? Unacceptable. Border between NI and I? Unacceptable.

So what's happening is some bullshittery and face saving on both sides. The UK and EU both know there isn't really a workable 'solution' that isn't just smoke and mirrors.

I expect neither 'side' will sign up to anything and it'll look, from the outside, like an ongoing rolling clusterfuck - but that'll be the strategy they probably fully signed up to at the G7.

 

[Scouse]

can you get NI Unionists to accept that "the mainland" doesn't give a flying fuck about them? You cannot.

To be fair - I don't think the English give a shit about the Scots. The Scots don't give a fuck about the English.

People in Yorkshire don't give a fuck about the rest of the UK, nor do people in Cornwall.

Plaid Cymru don't give a fuck about England, and only identify with Scots because neither of them give a fuck.

Scousers don't give a fuck about the rest of the country and would like to be an independent city state, and the rest of the country would happily let them.

The only reason NI gets special treatment on this is a long history of bomb making and planks of wood with nails in.

Nobody gives a fuck about anybody. Not really on an emotional level.

Pragmatic higher level thinking is what gets some humans into wider organising activities. Not real emotional connection.

 

[Hawkwind]

It's funny when Brexiteers claim that stuff the EU does turns people against the EU.

I think you'll find that there's more people on the continent in favour of not allowing the UK push over the EU.

I mean let's ask the Johnny-EU Foreigners here, what do you all think?

Oh do fuck off. I'm not a Brexiteer, never was. Why is it people resort to labelling as a point of view. Always thought we were better off inside the union and stated that many times on this forum. It was a passing thought given recent German and French automakers worries of losing UK market share in any kind of trade war. The trade deficit with EU was 20 Billion+ in their favour pre covid. As such and trade war would hurt both sides fiscally, the EU more given the deficit.

 

[Scouse]

@Gwadien's a bit of a remoaner in the truest sense @Hawkwind - you knocked the EU for being dicks. Which, of course, they are being.

You weren't saying the UK weren't being dicks (we, of course, are) - but there's a bit of residual bitterness knocking about. Hence my view (excluding NI) above - it's (kind of) over (for me).

Yes, the balance of shitness lies with the UK. There's a few leavers on here who don't want to accept that.

 

[Wij]

As such and trade war would hurt both sides fiscally, the EU more given the deficit.

I don't think it would hurt the EU more though. The EU's trade with the UK is a much smaller percentage of its total trade than the UK's trade with the EU.

 

[Yoni]

It's funny when Brexiteers claim that stuff the EU does turns people against the EU.

I think you'll find that there's more people on the continent in favour of not allowing the UK push over the EU.

I mean let's ask the Johnny-EU Foreigners here, what do you all think?

As for how it has effected the average EU citizens - it has not, only if you are a non UK citizen living in the UK who has not managed to get their paperwork sorted or a UK citizen living in the EU who has not got their paperwork sorted.

I have only felt the effect of import tax which I now get around by using amazon.co.uk to purchase gifts for my family - if this will effect average EU citizen further down the line is to be seen, as I stated several times in the thread there is nothing I purchase that can not be substituted for something that is made in Europe.

The Irish situation is a fucking disaster brought about by a government who knew exactly what they was doing he signed the agreement with the full knowledge that they would not be able to implement NI protocol... but hey lets get Brexit done just so we can say we have.... oO

 

[Gwadien]

Oh do fuck off. I'm not a Brexiteer, never was. Why is it people resort to labelling as a point of view. Always thought we were better off inside the union and stated that many times on this forum. It was a passing thought given recent German and French automakers worries of losing UK market share in any kind of trade war. The trade deficit with EU was 20 Billion+ in their favour pre covid. As such and trade war would hurt both sides fiscally, the EU more given the deficit.

Well since Brexit you've been staunchly anti-EU, which brings up the same question, who (outside the EU) is getting annoyed with the EU and the negotiations with the UK?

French & German car manufacturers? They're heavily subsidised by the state anyway, and the EU is the perfect vehicle (heh) to making sure that they export lots of them.

I still don't understand how it's a detriment to the EU, the longer this goes on, the more likely companies in the EU are going to ditch getting shit from the UK and look to get it from the continent instead, which sure, there's lots of industries that poorer EU countries can't replicate, but there's probably more that they can. Besides, to the EU, the integrity of the EU is infinitely more important than the economy; like it clearly is to us.

Personally, I can't wait to see what treatment Scotland gets when they finally fuck off

 

[Scouse]

I don't get why people want to play "who gets hurt more" tennis?

We both lose out, to differing degrees.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't get why people want to play "who gets hurt more" tennis?

We both lose out, to differing degrees.

Because it would go down so much better if we just accepted that the EU has a series of red lines that we're trying to cross, which we did find a solution, but then decided not to follow it anyway.

I think buying into the Government's £100m 'Brexit is going to be great!' campaign isn't a very good solution to the issue, the current state of limbo is surely worse than accepting the worse possible terms the EU could offer?

 

[Moriath]

Because it would go down so much better if we just accepted that the EU has a series of red lines that we're trying to cross, which we did find a solution, but then decided not to follow it anyway.

I think buying into the Government's £100m 'Brexit is going to be great!' campaign isn't a very good solution to the issue, the current state of limbo is surely worse than accepting the worse possible terms the EU could offer?

We are in a state of flux at the moment.

in a few months / years it will sort itself out.

i think you need to stop comparing what went before with now. Cause its always going to make you cranky.

for a country that based leaving on sovereignty to accept everything with the rules dictated by EU would be suicide. And the fishing quotas thing is madness to give the EU access to our waters when our fleets are decimated because of it.

 

[DaGaffer]

We are in a state of flux at the moment.

in a few months / years it will sort itself out.

i think you need to stop comparing what went before with now. Cause its always going to make you cranky.

for a country that based leaving on sovereignty to accept everything with the rules dictated by EU would be suicide. And the fishing quotas thing is madness to give the EU access to our waters when our fleets are decimated because of it.

"Sovereignty" doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

[Moriath]

the ability to sign up to what we want to internationally.

to control the resources in our part of the world. That sort of thing

 

[Gwadien]

Didn't we give most of our quota to Spain or something?

 

[Scouse]

Because it would go down so much better if we just accepted that the EU has a series of red lines that we're trying to cross

Really, at the end of the day, there's not really such thing as proper "red lines". Lines in the sand change with each tide.

It's part of the bullshit of politics. Brexit was signed, everyone's getting used to a new paradigm, both sides are trying shit on again. And again. And again.

 

[Raven]

The Tories are doing whatever makes their mates the right sort of amount of money.

Even killing people by not closing the border with India earlier, to sign a trade deal.

 

[Moriath]

Didn't we give most of our quota to Spain or something?

We left the quota system. Its an EU system. French are mad cause they want to be able to fish in uk waters.

 

[Gwadien]

We left the quota system. Its an EU system. French are mad cause they want to be able to fish in uk waters.

You're missing the point;

Brexit trade deal: Who really owns UK fishing quotas?

Reality Check investigates the value of foreign-owned British fishing quotas.

www.bbc.co.uk

£160m worth of England's fishing quota is in the hands of vessels owned by companies based in Iceland, Spain and the Netherlands, according to BBC research.

That amounts to 130,000 tonnes of fish a year and 55% of the quota's annual value in 2019.

The reality is that our fishing industry has never kept up with the new super trawlers, so it's barely competitive.

What we should do is ban super trawlers & fish imports, give some time for fish stocks to replenish and then fish sustainably with UK fleets, and fish would have to be at a premium.

But nah, I doubt it.

 

[Scouse]

What we should do is ban trawlers

FTFY

 

[Moriath]

You're missing the point;

Brexit trade deal: Who really owns UK fishing quotas?

Reality Check investigates the value of foreign-owned British fishing quotas.

www.bbc.co.uk

£160m worth of England's fishing quota is in the hands of vessels owned by companies based in Iceland, Spain and the Netherlands, according to BBC research.

That amounts to 130,000 tonnes of fish a year and 55% of the quota's annual value in 2019.

The reality is that our fishing industry has never kept up with the new super trawlers, so it's barely competitive.

What we should do is ban super trawlers & fish imports, give some time for fish stocks to replenish and then fish sustainably with UK fleets, and fish would have to be at a premium.

But nah, I doubt it.

A lotof the smaller boats out of places like Looe are getting caned cause the quotas are auctioned or sold off to the highest bidder which is the super trawler guys cause they have all the money.

if you watched the cornish fisheries series on bbc2 i think it was you see they cant get a quota allocated to new small boats as all those super trawlers are buying them all and the ports are dying.
so yes keep the europeans out of our waters and ban super trawlers.

 

[Gwadien]

A lotof the smaller boats out of places like Looe are getting caned cause the quotas are auctioned or sold off to the highest bidder which is the super trawler guys cause they have all the money.

if you watched the cornish fisheries series on bbc2 i think it was you see they cant get a quota allocated to new small boats as all those super trawlers are buying them all and the ports are dying.
so yes keep the europeans out of our waters and ban super trawlers.

How is that the fault of the EU though?

The impression I get is that British fishing doesn't want to be competitive, which I totally support, but when we live in a capitalistic world, that's hardly going to work.