Politics So...Europe then?

[Gwadien]

It's almost as if they didn't bother adapting to Brexit if they still manufacture in the UK but can't sell to the UK...for "reasons"

I wouldn't worry too much, if their workmanship is anything like their management

Lots of outright falsehoods in that "news" report too. Not even worth picking it apart (as someone whos job is importing millions of pounds worth of stuff into the UK)

But they're literally British jobs...

 

[Raven]

But they're literally British jobs...

But they drive yellow cars...

 

[Tom]

Thankfully I'm working in Germany next week so I'm just going to order there instead. It's only a £10 saddle cover ffs.

 

[DaGaffer]

Honestly I wonder if I could make an official complaint about it. I know you're not allowed to use words like Royal in your company name without permission, I wonder if the same is true for misrepresenting themselves in this way.

Brooks have been making saddles since the 19th century btw, they were British for a very long time.

London - Paris - Peckham.

Its just marketing and there's fuck all you can do about it unless the product itself has special protection, like Champagne.

 

[Wij]

Surprised?

Brexit has brought no benefits, UK manufacturers say

There are no benefits as a result of Brexit, Make UK, an organisation representing UK manufacturers has said.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[Wij]

Ho hum

Red Wall’ and other poorer areas lose £1bn of development cash after Brexit, despite PM’s pledge

Exclusive: Anger over broken promise to replace job-creating grants – leaving local leaders fighting each other for scraps

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Scouse]

Surprised?

Brexit has brought no benefits, UK manufacturers say

There are no benefits as a result of Brexit, Make UK, an organisation representing UK manufacturers has said.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

...

17 per cent of UK exporters are no longer trading as exporters due to Brexit and that there has been a 50 per cent fall in food and drink exports

...

 

[caLLous]

 

[Wij]

If only there was some kind of union.

 

[Raven]

Don't we keep getting told that EU law does not supersede national law? Asking for a friend.

Also...a politician asking people to march on parliament to defend their perceived way of life is probably not the best idea after the events of recent years...

 

[Raven]

Poland told to pay €1m a day in legal row with EU

The ruling is the latest step in an escalating dispute over Poland's legal reforms.

www.bbc.co.uk

lol

"sovereignty"

 

[Gwadien]

Poland told to pay €1m a day in legal row with EU

The ruling is the latest step in an escalating dispute over Poland's legal reforms.

www.bbc.co.uk

lol

"sovereignty"

'Opinion polls show that most people think the government should concede or compromise.'

 

[Raven]

Fump.

That was the point.

The EU are dictating to a sovereign state. They are over stepping their mandate.

 

[Gwadien]

Fump.

That was the point.

The EU are dictating to a sovereign state. They are over stepping their mandate.

Not really.

Nations joined it freely and were told what they can and can't do. They're free to leave...

Poland wanted Conservatism, that's what they got, but the Poles are fully aware what the overwhelming benefits of the EU are to Poland.

Have you actually seen what their Government is trying to do? It's quite anti democratic.

 

[DaGaffer]

Fump.

That was the point.

The EU are dictating to a sovereign state. They are over stepping their mandate.

Its more complicated than that; an independent judiciary is one of the rules of membership and Poland are trying to game the system by shoving in another layer that's politically controlled.

At a very simple, "these are the rules of the club" level, yes you do give up some sovereignty (although since you have direct involvement running the organisation you're abdicating responsibility to its not really "giving up"), and if you don't like it...

Also, in this specific case, the EU are protecting Polish democracy, so I don't have much sympathy for the Polish government.

 

[Wij]

Its more complicated than that; an independent judiciary is one of the rules of membership and Poland are trying to game the system by shoving in another layer that's politically controlled.

At a very simple, "these are the rules of the club" level, yes you do give up some sovereignty (although since you have direct involvement running the organisation you're abdicating responsibility to its not really "giving up"), and if you don't like it...

Also, in this specific case, the EU are protecting Polish democracy, so I don't have much sympathy for the Polish government.

It’s absolutely a good thing what the EU are doing but long overdue. There are minimum standards of democracy you sign up to when you join that are in the interests of the people of all member countries.

 

[Wij]

Not just Poland either. Hungary ffs.

 

[Gwadien]

Not just Poland either. Hungary ffs.

Both are social conservatives that are fighting back against liberalism, when I were in Poland, people my age were saying that they like Duda as a strong man figure who will stand up to other countries if necessary.

I don't think they want a Government that controls the courts though.

 

[Wij]

people my age were saying that they like Duda as a strong man figure who will stand up to other countries if necessary.

Yes yes. Create foreign enemies. Promise that only a strongman can stand up to them. Control the narrative by clamping down on free press. Curb the power of courts in the name of the will of the people.

We’ve seen this before.

 

[Raven]

It’s absolutely a good thing what the EU are doing but long overdue. There are minimum standards of democracy you sign up to when you join that are in the interests of the people of all member countries.

It's irrelevant whether they are "good" or not, its the fact that the EU assume that power.

 

[DaGaffer]

It's irrelevant whether they are "good" or not, its the fact that the EU assume that power.

The rules of membership are pretty transparent and an independent judiciary is one of them.

 

[Embattle]

They want to be part of the club since they want to benefit from the money they get from the club but they don't want to follow the rules of the club, which in the end is never going to be allowed.

 

[Scouse]

It's irrelevant whether they are "good" or not, its the fact that the EU assume that power.

The EU didn't "assume" anything. Poland signed up to it.

 

[Gwadien]

It's pretty weird that one of the staunchest Brexiteer is standing up for the EU to someone that 'voted remain'

 

[Raven]

Not really... the entire point of the argument is that a countries sovereignty trumps the rule or EU law, when that is clearly not true.

It doesn't matter whether than countries law is agreeable or not.

 

[caLLous]

Not really... the entire point of the argument is that a countries sovereignty trumps the rule or EU law, when that is clearly not true.

It doesn't matter whether than countries law is agreeable or not.

The EU - what it is and what it does

This publication is a guide to the European Union (EU) and what it does.

op.europa.eu

At the core of the EU are the 27 Member States that belong to the EU, and their citizens. The unique feature of the EU is that, although the Member States all remain sovereign and independent states, they have decided to pool some of their ‘sovereignty’ in areas where it makes sense to work together.

...which Poland knew when they joined and why more than 80% of their citizens think they should stop being twats.

 

[DaGaffer]

Not really... the entire point of the argument is that a countries sovereignty trumps the rule or EU law, when that is clearly not true.

It doesn't matter whether than countries law is agreeable or not.

That seems to be an argument you're having with yourself. No-one who knows anything about how the EU works would suggest countries in it maintain all their sovereignty, of course they don't. But, as I said in an earlier post, since each member state is involved in formulating and approving EU laws, then member states are moving sovereignty, not giving it up (which implies they have no control).

Anyway, no state is fully sovereign if it complies with supranational regulation, be it the UN, WTO, World Bank or the various international courts. "Sovereignty" is only fully in a nation's control if it doesn't want to engage with the rest of the world.

 

[Raven]

So, taking back sovereignty from the EU is a truthful argument for leaving the EU then. Which is the entire point.

Not something I much care about but it was bandied about as something that was made up by the red faced lot.

 

[Scouse]

So, taking back sovereignty from the EU is a truthful argument for leaving the EU then. Which is the entire point.

Not something I much care about but it was bandied about as something that was made up by the red faced lot.

I don't think the point wasn't accepted by anyone - it's what we would gain from doing it.

It turns out what we gained was a long term drag on our GDP that's twice as bad as covid, oh, and an inability to work where we want

 

[Raven]

Whataboutism. Did we or did we not take back sovereignty from the EU?

The argument isn't whether or not it was a good thing. The argument is that the claims about taking back sovereignty were not correct...when clearly they were.