Politics So...Europe then?

[Raven]

Let's not pretend the EU has superior standards to the UK on food and animal welfare. It's simply not true.

 

[Wij]

Let's not pretend the EU has superior standards to the UK on food and animal welfare. It's simply not true.

That doesn't matter. It's a different subject. Non-single-market countries get their food inspected before it arrives in single-market ones. That's the rules. That's what's in the agreement.

 

[Gwadien]

Let's not pretend the EU has superior standards to the UK on food and animal welfare. It's simply not true.

That isn't the point though is it.

The point is that Boris agreed to stuff that he now doesn't want to follow.

 

[Wij]

The British supermarkets over here in Spain are suffering with supply chain issues. Even normal post to and from the UK is tedious at the moment They're trying to make do with maybe 20% of their usual selection plus Supervalu products from Ireland.

I went to Gibraltar and the excess demand means that even they are struggling with some items. I haven't seen a packet of Twiglets in what seems like an eternity.

I have quite a bit of knowledge about the Gibraltar situation. Before Brexit I designed a load of system changes at Morrisons to allow the Gibraltar store to use system-generated replenishment orders rather than manual ones. We delivered it just before Brexit and it was working. Then Brexit happened and it all went to shit

 

[gunner440]

I have quite a bit of knowledge about the Gibraltar situation. Before Brexit I designed a load of system changes at Morrisons to allow the Gibraltar store to use system-generated replenishment orders rather than manual ones. We delivered it just before Brexit and it was working. Then Brexit happened and it all went to shit

What I don't get is how Gib is suffering (albeit not as much as mainland Spain) supply wise. Is it purely demand being high (as usual) and Gib being the only source nowadays or is because goods are having trouble getting to the rock as well?

 

[Hawkwind]

Or the result of EU making things far more complicated than it really needs to be. Go talk to any exporter and they will tell you. Filling in forms in different colours depending on country they are going to. It's ludicrous.

 

[DaGaffer]

Or the result of EU making things far more complicated than it really needs to be. Go talk to any exporter and they will tell you. Filling in forms in different colours depending on country they are going to. It's ludicrous.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the UK is over-complicating things. They always have when it comes to EU regulation. Look up "copper-bottoming". Every EU regulation ever put in place, the UK always follows the strictest interpretation of that regulation. In this particular instance, the Tories actually want the NI protocol to fail, and fail hard, so the EU raises trade barriers and UK Gov can do what its always done, blame the EU.

 

[Hawkwind]

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the UK is over-complicating things. They always have when it comes to EU regulation. Look up "copper-bottoming". Every EU regulation ever put in place, the UK always follows the strictest interpretation of that regulation. In this particular instance, the Tories actually want the NI protocol to fail, and fail hard, so the EU raises trade barriers and UK Gov can do what its always done, blame the EU.

Not sure that explains everything. Was talking to a gallery owner at the weekend. They said that if the forms are not exactly right and the correct colours used they get turned around at the destination country customs. They had just received a shipment back from Spain with paperwork stating rejected, incorrect form colours. I laughed thinking it was a joke. It wasn't and I got 10 min lecture on the games EU countries are playing with UK exports. He told me nearly a third of all shipments were being returned and they followed evey rule to the letter meticulously. He was very angry about it.

 

[Wij]

Lol at facepalming facts

 

[Gwadien]

Boy, I should would like to know what the real facts are then.

 

[Raven]

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the UK is over-complicating things. They always have when it comes to EU regulation. Look up "copper-bottoming". Every EU regulation ever put in place, the UK always follows the strictest interpretation of that regulation. In this particular instance, the Tories actually want the NI protocol to fail, and fail hard, so the EU raises trade barriers and UK Gov can do what its always done, blame the EU.

You mean the UK follow the rules and the EU do whatever they like? Sounds about right, dealing with EU countries on imports, they are fucking useless. The rules have changed, for both parties, we seem to be the only ones actually doing what is required.

And that was the case when we were in the EU but less important then. Country of origin is a completely foreign concept to the EU.

 

[Gwadien]

You mean the UK follow the rules and the EU do whatever they like? Sounds about right, dealing with EU countries on imports, they are fucking useless. The rules have changed, for both parties, we seem to be the only ones actually doing what is required.

And that was the case when we were in the EU but less important then. Country of origin is a completely foreign concept to the EU.

Have they really though? Surely if the UK gets goods from the EU then they've already gone through the EU processes so therefore they don't need to be checked.

Whereas the UK is being treated as a non-EU country in European nations.

 

[Raven]

err. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Yoni]

The UK government are doing an awesome spin job as far as I can see..... even Tory haters are now defending the UK and ignoring facts presented... Most of these rules were in place before the UK left, and now the UK expect to be treated as a member of the EU without actually being one... why do you feel the need to blame the EU, the UK voted to be on their own, they are now - it would be good if instead of spending all their time blaming Europe the UK government started to live up to promises and made something of the country they freed from the tyranny of thedirty Europeans....

As for supply sadly the import tax is so punitive that I have found alternative ways of supporting family friends with web businesses who have seen their European sales fall through the floor - thank fully some have actually set up in Europe now so that their customers do not have to suffer the import taxation... As far as food goes and typically English, when I left the UK to go to NL I made a decision to buy local as english shops and products even before the change were ridiculously expensive so after 13 years I do not miss anything so it is not affecting me from that point of view.

But yes it is all Europes fault we must not forget that oO

 

[Ormorof]

If only there was some way of avoiding trade barriers with the single market, its mystery how that could have been achieved though so lets blame the EU

 

[Ormorof]

The paperwork for UK is exactly the same as every other country that ships stuff into the single market, this idea that UK is being singled out and treated unfairly is absurd. Theres a checklist the customs peeps follow, if its not followed they reject. This was made painfully clear for 5 years leading up to the break, suddenly crying foul or surprise at this stage is just a childish abdication of responsibility.

 

[Raven]

Except, for many the issue isn't UK side, it is EU side, wrong or missing paperwork, failure to understand customs rules. Incorrect classification of goods etc.

 

[old.Osy]

Boo hoo.

 

[Embattle]

No point in endlessly talking about protecting the Belfast agreement and then thinking that a border between NI and UK is the same as any other third country, in the end I find plenty of blame on both sides can be apportioned and neither side takes the agreement that seriously when it suits them.

 

[Yoni]

Except, for many the issue isn't UK side, it is EU side, wrong or missing paperwork, failure to understand customs rules. Incorrect classification of goods etc.

So six of one and half a dozen of the other then oO

No point in endlessly talking about protecting the Belfast agreement and then thinking that a border between NI and UK is the same as any other third country, in the end I find plenty of blame on both sides can be apportioned and neither side takes the agreement that seriously when it suits them.

So why would the UK government agree to something that would upset that particular apple cart? Just so they can say that they got Brexit done? They must have understood the consequences when they signed on the dotted line, if not it just reinforces how incompetant they actually are. If they understood the consequences but signed anyway then they are an arrogant bunch of idiots who are trying to slither out of the mess they have put the country in....

 

[Gwadien]

Except, for many the issue isn't UK side, it is EU side, wrong or missing paperwork, failure to understand customs rules. Incorrect classification of goods etc.

You're still talking about a different subject matter.

The point is that the EU said if you don't want a hard border across the Irish sea then you need to abide by our rules, which we agreed to, but now we're trying to go against those rules.

Its like any international deal - the bigger boys with more cards are going to screw over the junior partner of the deal, that's how global capitalism works... We're just not the big boy anymore which is what people seem to be struggling with.

 

[Embattle]

So why would the UK government agree to something that would upset that particular apple cart? Just so they can say that they got Brexit done? They must have understood the consequences when they signed on the dotted line, if not it just reinforces how incompetant they actually are. If they understood the consequences but signed anyway then they are an arrogant bunch of idiots who are trying to slither out of the mess they have put the country in....

Actually yes it was done primarily to say that Brexit had been done after years of delays, anyone with a brain knew this was just the start since in reality the majority of the work was still to be done since the agreement itself still had lots of things that needed fleshing out. It also still doesn't change the fact that both sides are using the Belfast agreement when it suits them, a border between UK and NI isn't any old third country border no matter what any one says and it isn't likely to be any less problematic than if there had been one on the Island of Ireland.

Personally I would be more than happy to hand NI back to ROI, not that they want it either at the present time.

 

[Gwadien]

I can't even.

 

[Tom]

All this bullshit just so the Tory party could get rid of UKIP.

That's all it was. A vote to shut the Kipper-sympathising Tory members up. A massive gamble, and Cameron lost it.

All of us having to deal with this bullshit, all this inconvenience and loss of money - just for a political party populated by wealthy businessmen who couldn't give a shit about the average member of the public.

If any of them had any integrity whatsoever, they'd have said "yeah we looked at doing it but it's too hard", dealt with the political fallout, and moved on. It'd be yesterday's history by now. But no, here we are. Wankers the lot of them.

 

[Gwadien]

Boo hoo.

I think this nails the whole subject tbh.

 

[Raven]

All this bullshit just so the Tory party could get rid of UKIP.

That's all it was. A vote to shut the Kipper-sympathising Tory members up. A massive gamble, and Cameron lost it.

All of us having to deal with this bullshit, all this inconvenience and loss of money - just for a political party populated by wealthy businessmen who couldn't give a shit about the average member of the public.

If any of them had any integrity whatsoever, they'd have said "yeah we looked at doing it but it's too hard", dealt with the political fallout, and moved on. It'd be yesterday's history by now. But no, here we are. Wankers the lot of them.

Completely agree, but what's done is done, so both sides need to sort their shit out and cooperate.

*And the Tories need to fuck off into history ofc, but that's pretty unlikely.

 

[Yoni]

Actually yes it was done primarily to say that Brexit had been done after years of delays, anyone with a brain knew this was just the start since in reality the majority of the work was still to be done since the agreement itself still had lots of things that needed fleshing out. It also still doesn't change the fact that both sides are using the Belfast agreement when it suits them, a border between UK and NI isn't any old third country border no matter what any one says and it isn't likely to be any less problematic than if there had been one on the Island of Ireland.

Personally I would be more than happy to hand NI back to ROI, not that they want it either at the present time.

Then that makes the UK government and arrogant bunch of idiots if they think they can carry on as before..... The UK government needs to step up and own their shit. Unification of Ireland is not as simple as just handing NI back.... god knows it took decades to get to the Good Friday agreement in place not to mention the untold number of lives innocent and not so innocent lost in the process.... The UK government should have been honest when informing the public what Brexit would mean. for the country and for NI, they did not so this is where the UK is now so instead of whining about Europe step up and "Make Britain great again oO!"

 

[Gwadien]

Also, us signing deals then going back on them isn't going to impress countries that we're going to get trade deals with.

 

[Yoni]

Completely agree, but what's done is done, so both sides need to sort their shit out and cooperate.

*And the Tories need to fuck off into history ofc, but that's pretty unlikely.

The EU is not gong to cooperate with the UK any more than it cooperates with other "third country" without being able to implement some of their rules - sorry but that its just how it is.... The UK and its citizens need to realise that is what they are ... a third country - nothing more nothing less...

 

[Embattle]

Then that makes the UK government and arrogant bunch of idiots if they think they can carry on as before..... The UK government needs to step up and own their shit. Unification of Ireland is not as simple as just handing NI back.... god knows it took decades to get to the Good Friday agreement in place not to mention the untold number of lives innocent and not so innocent lost in the process.... The UK government should have been honest when informing the public what Brexit would mean. for the country and for NI, they did not so this is where the UK is now so instead of whining about Europe step up and "Make Britain great again oO!"

I never said it was simple, I just said as far as I'm concerned that I would. The rest of what you said is just the same as before so I'll repeat what I said and that is when it suits people they hold up one side of the agreement forgetting about the other.

Also, us signing deals then going back on them isn't going to impress countries that we're going to get trade deals with.

Really...I mean because we are the first to do that

This is why I end up giving ratings because most of you sprout the same stuff you have before while wearing rose tinted glasses.

The EU is not gong to cooperate with the UK any more than it cooperates with other "third country" without being able to implement some of their rules - sorry but that its just how it is.... The UK and its citizens need to realise that is what they are ... a third country - nothing more nothing less...

The UK includes NI and that part of the border is anything except normal....as stated previously.

Any way ratings only time as this EU/Brexit stuff got repetitive and boring fast.