Politics So...Europe then?
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Hawkwind
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Had to laugh when I saw this:
"The market is fuelled by a desire among some religious communities for live animals and, in some cases, difficulties in rearing livestock and refrigerating meat."
BBC would never state Hilal/Kosher for fear of offending them. It's mostly muslims that like the live sheep/goats especially for Eid Al Fitr.
Hawkwind
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Bargaining, nothing more. EU states ludicrous number we say give us money, somewhere in the middle is what will likely be agreed. The whole process seems like kids in a playground rather than adults. One of the problems when trying to make decisions with effectively two committees. Bad enough when one is involved. Also both sides using the media as negotiation tools, fueling negativity.
Job
The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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There are much bigger tbings than the single market going on..this is just a sideshow, its like watching a setup scenario in the xfactor auditions.
The EU is facing dissent from everyone who matters, the only people behind it are those with the most to gain financially.
Junkys speech actually went down like a lead balloon on all sides.
The EU is facing dissent from everyone who matters, the only people behind it are those with the most to gain financially.
Junkys speech actually went down like a lead balloon on all sides.
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The hilarity of EU cracks spreading aside.
May will go down as one of the if not the worst prime ministers in history. An walking fuckup.
I mean the EU has a drunk, puppet, idiot running the show but to be fair nobody actually voted for him. Somehow our perfectly sober, nonetheless idiot, leader got elected as an MP.
May will go down as one of the if not the worst prime ministers in history. An walking fuckup.
I mean the EU has a drunk, puppet, idiot running the show but to be fair nobody actually voted for him. Somehow our perfectly sober, nonetheless idiot, leader got elected as an MP.
Hawkwind
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Sounds like a job description for any political post.
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Sounds a bit over-qualified if you ask me...
./Blackadder
(but couldn't find the clip
)
Wij
I am a FH squatter
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Prince George. The Politics episode.Sounds a bit over-qualified if you ask me...
./Blackadder
(but couldn't find the clip
Job
The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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Job
The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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They are both opinions, I only think we'd survive Brexit because the financial titans will not allow anything that will cost actual cash.
I do hope his prediction that we have crushed plans for a federal Europe comes true.
I do hope his prediction that we have crushed plans for a federal Europe comes true.
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Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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omg amazing, scientists are going to talk to each other.
Not worried anymore, the UK will be a global super duper power in the next 2 and a half weeks now.
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Spain desperately trying to cling on to the hand that feeds it
Can you imagine the mess if they did manage to gain independence? Spain would certainly not allow them into the EU but they would at the same time take away Spain's entire wealth.
Golden.
Can you imagine the mess if they did manage to gain independence? Spain would certainly not allow them into the EU but they would at the same time take away Spain's entire wealth.
Golden.
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The rich to make themselves into a tax free haven and not contribute to their country.
At least they're trying by more democtatic means than bombing innocents - though not entirely democratic because their referendum was illegal - and democracy is based on following the law.
Before people jump on the "lets support new 'legitimate' ETA" bandwagon and jump on that statement - it's important that referendums in a democracy have a legal basis - like the Scottish one - or they are anti-democratic.
Look at it this way - if London held an illegal referendum to cut itself free from the rest of the UK would we be supporting London's rights? Or maybe just Hackney? Or maybe just a street in Hackney?
There are political structures in place partly to prevent fragmentation - for very good reasons and for the good of the many, not just the rich few. Yes they're imperfect - but if Catalonia wants total independence then they need to campaign and secure their referendum just like Scotland did.
Anything else is a populist sham - though an effective one, given the number of people who've bought into the braveheart style "freeeeedom!" shite without considering the wider picture and future problems that would be brought about by letting the rich fragment themselves off into separate states so they don't have to pitch in with their side of the social bargain.
At least they're trying by more democtatic means than bombing innocents - though not entirely democratic because their referendum was illegal - and democracy is based on following the law.
Before people jump on the "lets support new 'legitimate' ETA" bandwagon and jump on that statement - it's important that referendums in a democracy have a legal basis - like the Scottish one - or they are anti-democratic.
Look at it this way - if London held an illegal referendum to cut itself free from the rest of the UK would we be supporting London's rights? Or maybe just Hackney? Or maybe just a street in Hackney?
There are political structures in place partly to prevent fragmentation - for very good reasons and for the good of the many, not just the rich few. Yes they're imperfect - but if Catalonia wants total independence then they need to campaign and secure their referendum just like Scotland did.
Anything else is a populist sham - though an effective one, given the number of people who've bought into the braveheart style "freeeeedom!" shite without considering the wider picture and future problems that would be brought about by letting the rich fragment themselves off into separate states so they don't have to pitch in with their side of the social bargain.
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Not following the law does not mean it is not democratic... Part of democracy is challenging the law.
There is that word you, don't really understand, again, populist
They have campaigned plenty, did the last 50 years pass you by? Seriously?
There is that word you, don't really understand, again, populist
They have campaigned plenty, did the last 50 years pass you by? Seriously?
DaGaffer
Down With That Sorta Thing
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Spanish government are playing right in to the hands of the Catalan Independence movement. Even thought they are entirely correct in their stance from a purely legal POV, they're going to push more people to vote out when the referendum, legal or not, happens. Might have been better to just say "do what you want but it has no legal authority and don't use any federal money to pay for it". Problem is sometimes the State might actually have a legal duty to stop the referendum, but if that's the case they might want to think about the language they're using.
NB. @Scouse, in Catalonia its a bit more complex than just "rich Catalans don't want to pay for poor Spain"; there's a whole load of civil war politics wrapped up in this and independence has been championed more by the left than the right down the years. If this was a conversation about the Northern League in Italy, you'd be entirely on the money, those guys just want to throw the poor bits of Italy under the bus, and represent an unpleasant trend (isn't there some twat in the US who wants to split California up for the same reasons?)
NB. @Scouse, in Catalonia its a bit more complex than just "rich Catalans don't want to pay for poor Spain"; there's a whole load of civil war politics wrapped up in this and independence has been championed more by the left than the right down the years. If this was a conversation about the Northern League in Italy, you'd be entirely on the money, those guys just want to throw the poor bits of Italy under the bus, and represent an unpleasant trend (isn't there some twat in the US who wants to split California up for the same reasons?)
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I get most of that (and agree - especially regarding how the Spanish gov has handled it) @DaGaffer - but the major points on democracy and the law stand.
Don't know much about the Italian Northern League. But the rich are gonna act like the rich the world over - which is why following due process rather than holding dodgy anti-democratic referendums is so important.
Edit: I think there's clearly a case for a federalised system all over Europe - much more local rule on a lot of things but hard and fast Europe wide policy on many others.
If they can keep the beauracracy levels low and make things more representative it's a no brainer for me.
Don't know much about the Italian Northern League. But the rich are gonna act like the rich the world over - which is why following due process rather than holding dodgy anti-democratic referendums is so important.
Edit: I think there's clearly a case for a federalised system all over Europe - much more local rule on a lot of things but hard and fast Europe wide policy on many others.
If they can keep the beauracracy levels low and make things more representative it's a no brainer for me.
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Some of them want independence from the Spanish state, they are asking for a chance to vote on it. There is a long list of reasons why they want it, because they have a bit of cash to hand is pretty low on that list.
Your analogy with London shows you have absolutely no idea about the situation is, it would be more like Scotland asking for an independence vote.
Oh wait, you were all for that weren't you? Strange indeed. It's worth noting there were also various polls before they got given the binding vote, we (The British government) didn't wet the bed about them though.
Your analogy with London shows you have absolutely no idea about the situation is, it would be more like Scotland asking for an independence vote.
Oh wait, you were all for that weren't you? Strange indeed. It's worth noting there were also various polls before they got given the binding vote, we (The British government) didn't wet the bed about them though.
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Are you incapable of talking to people without trying to insult them Raven? Or do you just come on FH to blow off steam, try to start an argument by being generally obnoxious, feel sated and then go home happy in the knowledge that you don't need to punch your wife that day?
Ormorof
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The situation is more like Scotland asking for a vote, being turned down, voting in their own parliament to have a vote anyway, then Westminister sending in the TA to shut down newspapers and printers...
Support for independence in Catalonia was less than 15% ten years ago now its pushing past 50% seems to me that the central government has decided to take a heavy hand, which only makes it worse
I think it would be a mistake to leave Spain, if they do it could see the other regions flaring up again
Support for independence in Catalonia was less than 15% ten years ago now its pushing past 50% seems to me that the central government has decided to take a heavy hand, which only makes it worse
I think it would be a mistake to leave Spain, if they do it could see the other regions flaring up again
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I'm sorry, I read it through again twice now. Where in that post did I insult you?
Why are you talking about physical violence, what is the matter with you?
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Gawd. I facepalmed you (because it's better than replying - LOTS of people are completely sick of pages of me and you fighting like fucking children). Thought the better of it but you must have FH on some perma-refresh. :\
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But I literally don't know what you are on about? You just accused me of insulting you, when I didn't. Why? what did you hope to achieve? It was a perfectly reasonable discussion up until that point. Now you are going all weird and defensive.
Sort yourself out man, go and wank it out or something.
Sort yourself out man, go and wank it out or something.
