Sidi raids poll !!! vote now !

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Fagane
Sad is the person who did in his last 200 posts only flame, and bring forth no argument except insults.

Fagane, just fyi, Skile was excluded from the last sidi raid lotto...
No flame there...
Tell me what I said that is not true, and if you are right, I will publicly admit it, no problem...
Regards, Glottis

 

[syri]

Originally posted by -sunlight-
I think the RR5+ rule is lame as hell, but I can accept that only RR5+ can lotto for Apoc drops if RR5+ people is forbidden in any other lotto.

and in reply to aybatu, firstly, you left out from my post that the reason the 60% is ignored is because they aren't rr5, or did you ignore that because i'm not rr5? probably...
And as for arranging a raid, i've been tempted many times, and one day i just might. at the moment, i'm considering one that is only for people rr5- so we don't get any eliteist arseholes moaning that someone got a drop that they can't use to "it's full potential" for another 10k rps....

 

[Falcor]

Trouble is, half of ppl posting here dont know what the hell they r talking about....

Apoc drops NO caster staffs for a start.

He drops 5 known weapons, 1 of these weapons stands a SMALL chance of dropping every raid.

Now yes i will decide what to do, but all a lot of u can do is say rr5 is baaad etc, why dont u try giving a compromise or an alternative, there is still 30% who want the rule, this is why compromise is best....maybe u should try and understand this

This rule basically, affects MAYBE one weapon a raid, if any, now dont think NO r5 eliteness bad and all this crap, give compromise, this rule also doesn't really affect infils,all casters, mincers,scouts,clerics, basically all it affects is tanks, ofc other ppl have opinions tho,

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Falcor
Trouble is, half of ppl posting here dont know what the hell they r talking about....

Apoc drops NO caster staffs for a start.

He drops 5 known weapons, 1 of these weapons stands a SMALL chance of dropping every raid.

Now yes i will decide what to do, but all a lot of u can do is say rr5 is baaad etc, why dont u try giving a compromise or an alternative, there is still 30% who want the rule, this is why compromise is best....maybe u should try and understand this

This rule basically, affects MAYBE one weapon a raid, if any, now dont think NO r5 eliteness bad and all this crap, give compromise, this rule also doesn't really affect infils,all casters, mincers,scouts,clerics, basically all it affects is tanks, ofc other ppl have opinions tho,

Why do I see the likening of you and several of Sovietunion-leaders. It seems to me you claim that people are stupid, that they don't know all facts, that you know what they actually want, the 62% is not what they actually want?

But yet again, it's good that u present your opinions and bring in "facts".

But when we are standing there, on saturday, in gwyntell. You must know that thinking you represent the best for the attenders, shutting your eyes for what they actually want, what they voted for, what the people said. This is NOT the same thing as representing the people, or their believes.

 

[Falcor]

so skile what about the other 30% then? fuck them? they dont matter?

 

[old.Zeikerd]

A compromise could be:
If a apoc only weapon drops, we lotto it first.
All RR5 people get +10 counted to their roll number.
All RR6 +15, RR7 +20 etc, and RR10 gets +35 on the roll numbers.

Possible additions:
- RR5+ people can only lotto for the weapon, nothing else
- all people can only lotto for the weapon, nothing else

 

[Falcor]

Anyway as for how im gonna work this out, the raid this saturday will go ahead with current rules, as i dont intend to change them mid week, will judge fairly after saturday how to change rules...

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by old.Zeikerd
A compromise could be:
If a apoc only weapon drops, we lotto it first.
All RR5 people get +10 counted to their roll number.
All RR6 +15, RR7 +20 etc, and RR10 gets +35 on the roll numbers.

Possible additions:
- RR5+ people can only lotto for the weapon, nothing else
- all people can only lotto for the weapon, nothing else

Ok this is kinda silly. The argument is about 'gettng full use' I don't agree with that argument but why should a rr10 get better rolls than rr5 both use item to same extent one just has more free time to farm rps.

I personally think teh results of the poll so far are pretty clear, if it was much closer there would be a need for compromise but it isn't close. Sure Falcor's raid his rules he doesn't have to pay any attention at all to the poll but the result of this poll is pretty clear.

In case anyone cares errors for a sample that size are 7% so you could at a push argue figures could be 56%:38% (correct at time of going to press and assuming unbiased samples etc etc etc) still a very clear result

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by Falcor
Anyway as for how im gonna work this out, the raid this saturday will go ahead with current rules, as i dont intend to change them mid week, will judge fairly after saturday how to change rules...

So there is a poll to change the lotto rules before saturday, and this is what you say?

Fagane

 

[Sibanac]

Originally posted by Falcor
so skile what about the other 30% then? fuck them? they dont matter?

Well Falcor, you got to face it :
Those 60% stand a chance against apoc, the 30% doesnt . If that 60% is willing to put their money where there mouth is you will either have no choise but to let em roll for the weapon or no chance of a weapon.

Think thats what it all boils down to

 

[Falcor]

Originally posted by Javai
I personally think teh results of the poll so far are pretty clear, if it was much closer there would be a need for compromise but it isn't close. Sure Falcor's raid his rules he doesn't have to pay any attention at all to the poll but the result of this poll is pretty clear.

In case anyone cares errors for a sample that size are 7% so you could at a push argue figures could be 56%:38% (correct at time of going to press and assuming unbiased samples etc etc etc) still a very clear result

What about the 30% who will be left unhappy?

 

[Fagane]

They got a choice, come or do not come to your raid.

Fagane

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by Falcor
What about the 30% who will be left unhappy?

Someone will always be unhappy, but as someone else pointed out that 30% can't kill Apoc alone, the 60% stand a chance.

I've done raids and seen drops go to people I felt didn't deserve it, it's tough but as long as you know the rules were fair and had support of majority then you live with it.

 

[Falcor]

hardly fair tho is it....

 

[syri]

so, this only affects tanks now? are you now saying that because a mincer is a rogue class that they shouldn't have a top weapon?
i don't know if apoc drops any swords that have stats favourable to mincers, but it's just the way you spoke, makes it sound like only fighter class tanks deserve the right to wield the best swords...

 

[Fagane]

So if 1 person is for an atomic war, and the world is against it, does that mean we should make a law that states we got a chance of 1 in 25 each time we shoot a missile it should be a nuke?

That minority gets ignored, it can protest, come with arguments, but will be ignored.

You got now a minority of 30% and a majority of 60%, you claim to listen to the people (players).

Whats stopping you?

Fagane

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Falcor
hardly fair tho is it....

Ofcourse it's fair. Democracy relevant to this discussion works like this: Everyone has a right to argue for their believes, this right is protect by law. Therfor everyone has the RIGHT, a FAIR right to argue for their opinion and win the peoples trust by doing a good job at it or "being right".

Whats fair = Everyone has the right to affect the people whom votes. Everyone has 1 vote/person. In order to get this vote respected, the majority needs to win.

Another way to put it, what would be MOST unfair? To let the 30% have their way, or the 60%? It's no discussion about this, ofc, it would be "more unfair" to let the 30% win.

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by Falcor
hardly fair tho is it....

Actually that is the point it is exactly fair, it is also the difficulty all democracies face the minority will always be unhappy.

As I said I have no problem with any raid leader implementing any rules they like, since raid leaders are not elected and its a damned hard job. As long as they are clear in advance people can make their own choice whether the chance of 'normal' Sidi drop outweighs having no chance at Apoc weapon etc.

 

[Falcor]

Originally posted by syri
so, this only affects tanks now? are you now saying that because a mincer is a rogue class that they shouldn't have a top weapon?
i don't know if apoc drops any swords that have stats favourable to mincers, but it's just the way you spoke, makes it sound like only fighter class tanks deserve the right to wield the best swords...

Dont twist my words, apoc drops r not suitable for mincers judging by stats

 

[Fagane]

1 mace (1handed)
2 polearms
2 two-handed weapons
1 Flex weapon

Also the rumours a few more weapons can drop. Mace can be wield by any class that can wield 1h Crush, 2 Armsman only drops, 2 Armsman/Pally only drops and 1 Reaver only drop.

But to be fair, thats totaly besides the point.

a big majority has voted against the RR5 rule, act Falcor as you promised to do.

Fagane

 

[skile]

This discussion can easliy be compared to how we handle our material resources around the world. If u think u are a Socialdemocrat and think the rr5+ rule is right, think again.

 

[loxleyhood]

Originally posted by alithiel50


Whether or not you agree with the rule, that statement is just ridiculous... how can you compare the sale of items that anyone can, if they so choose, level a character to make with the lottoing of an item which may only drop once in a hundred, or even a thousand, raids?

The production and sale/purchase of crafted items is entirely in the hands of the player base. Whether or not an item drops is purely at the cruel whim of fate, and you can understand why some people would feel, rightly or wrongly, that such a rare item should go to someone who can use it to the full extent of its potential.

I disagree. There are actually very few rare Sidi items. The only ones you could count as rare are the ones which drop solely from Apocalypse, and with more than 3 sidi raids per week the server has many, many items. Just looking at the trading forums if you don't already know.

My point, which seems to have so gracefully gone over your head, is that if you disagree with a RR5- getting a Sidi weapon because a RR5+ could use it better than you must also disagree that a RR5- should be allowed to buy a MP sabre when a RR5+ could use it better. Perhaps the RR5- has spent more time money farming and can offer a better price. Perhaps the RR5- has spent his time on many sidi raids.

 

[stinkie]

Tilda please add an extra option for only RR10 or chars called stinkie.

Personaly I think this is the best!!!

Vote Stinkie On Poll Day!!!!

p.s voted for all 50's to lotto. Anyone that puts up with the hours of bordom (read: Falcors bitching) doing a sidi raids deserves the full benifit of the raid.

 

[Yussef]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Not sure who your main is...
But trying to have 150 player follow orders over the course of 2 hours, were retards that don't speak English (note, I do not only mean Spanish retards) just walk around the place getting aggro, people go afk (and not for 30s, a tad longer). Several mobs needed to be approached in different ways (one will heal for example if a non-cleric hits it, or Apoc spawns adds if he kills one player....) and meanwhile, 75 of those 150 are pm'ing you for the stats on the last drop, won't turn in those drops, are pming you that they have a right on that specific drop, and they want +99 on their /random 100 roll...
But yeah, you have proved in the passed you can do all this.. (sarcasm btw).
Regards, Glottis

I do this all the time on Prydwen

Must just be Excal

 

[drowin]

Originally posted by Falcor
so skile what about the other 30% then? fuck them? they dont matter?

SO WHATS THE FUCKING POINT OF VOTING?

I wonder if it was 70/30 in favour of the rr5 rule, you'd worry about that?


i hate the rr5 rule, just in case it wasnt clear

 

[old.BJ|Bored]

tbh if it goes to rr5 only i hope the 70% below just dont go.

but this wont happen as they dont have that huge degree of pettyness (such as going apeshit over 0.3dps)

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by loxleyhood
I disagree. There are actually very few rare Sidi items. The only ones you could count as rare are the ones which drop solely from Apocalypse, and with more than 3 sidi raids per week the server has many, many items. Just looking at the trading forums if you don't already know.

My point, which seems to have so gracefully gone over your head, is that if you disagree with a RR5- getting a Sidi weapon because a RR5+ could use it better than you must also disagree that a RR5- should be allowed to buy a MP sabre when a RR5+ could use it better. Perhaps the RR5- has spent more time money farming and can offer a better price. Perhaps the RR5- has spent his time on many sidi raids.

Your point hasn't gone over my head... it's just that I've interpretted it in context with the original post, which refers to the rare Apocalypse only drops, whereas you seem to have made your statement as though it were referring to all Sidi items.

Originally posted by Tilda
Five of the 38 weapons in Caer Sidi are only dropped by Apocalypse. It was requested by some people in the community to limit those drops to people who have aquired the Realm Rank of 5 and higher, so they have proved themselves to be of enough skill and dedication to wield such a rare and powerfull weapon.

I think there are a lot of people who have posted here who would do well to actually read this before posting further comment... several seem to have missed this critical detail in their desire to launch into a bout of flaming...

 

[Fagane]

its a principle, not a matter of weapons, and what. Why do people think a level 50 Theurg cares about a few melee weapons, and thats the reason for the vote. Its the fact that RR5 get stuff where other people worked just as hard (or harder) for, so they can feel more elite.

Fagane

 

[acei]

Originally posted by Tilda
its not that hard to get RR5 tbh

If you like Emain zerg vs zerg it isn't hard no. If you hate Emain and prefer keep takes/defense and RR then yes it is hard. Please we don't all zerg around Emain for RP's all day!

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by alithiel50
Your point hasn't gone over my head... it's just that I've interpretted it in context with the original post, which refers to the rare Apocalypse only drops, whereas you seem to have made your statement as though it were referring to all Sidi items.

It's about the principle. I dont even have a class who can use the Apoc-drops. But that doesnt matter for my opinion that EVERYBODY attending to the raid should have an equal chance on getting that Apoc-drop he can use.

Falcor is talking about fair and making a compromise which is just plain silly. The new rule is not fair for the RR4 armsman. Compromise? What is there to compromise? The RR5 will have an equal chance to get it. Does he need a better chance? No

Compromise because 'some' (30% atm) think a RR5 is entitled more to the Apoc-drop? Well it's yes or no. 60% says no. IF you start compromising because 30% wants something MORE then 60% you can count on your fingers that some idiot wants something else and you opened a really hard land of 'compromises'.

I think there are a lot of people who have posted here who would do well to actually read this before posting further comment... several seem to have missed this critical detail in their desire to launch into a bout of flaming...

Hmm. No. I think ALOT of them actually used their mind for an instance and think about it why a RR5 deserves a drop more which was obtained during a raid where everybody who was there did his share of work.