Sidi raids poll !!! vote now !

[Javai]

Originally posted by fl_gorre
lol@poll results
all non RR5 voting no and all RR5+voting yes

Got two rr5's and voted No and I know of many others with rr5's who did the same

 

[Sohan_THC]

voted yes

is simple , the one who organise the raid can set the standards tho.

if you don't care you apply , if you feel you not agree then do not apply and organise one youre self or join other one.

think this is same rule as i organise so i take atleast 1 drop.
fine if you agree with it join.
if not then leave it. if enough ppl do that there will be no raid.

it is different when some class or type are expeled from a raid.
like no reavers allowed or only male char. so that would really suck and is reall diff then this.

i can life by the rr5 rule . so i join the raid anyway.

basicly the one who organise can set the rules.

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
In my opinion it's way better to set the rules clear from the start where Falcor agrees with me as he doesn't wanna change the rules before the next raid (which makes sense imo). Clear rules = best way to avoid misunderstandings.

Normally I'd agree, but in this case it's pretty obvious that the particular issue is potentially going to be a point of contention on every single raid that is held between now and whenever, IF ever, one of these items drops.

Since we agree that it may be best to just destroy any such drop and hence avoid the issue together, why worry if it sits gathering dust in someones vault for a week or so while the issue is resolved? Then we can forget the whole thing and actually have some relatively whine-free raids for a few weeks!

 

[nuitari]

Originally posted by alithiel50

How is an RR5+ Armsman who thinks he's entitled to the drop because he's going to make full and regular use of it in RvR any more greedy than an RR3/4 Armsman who think's he's entitled to it just because he came on the raid, even though he doesn't RvR much and will probably just leave it in his vault/house as a trophy item?

Question for you:

Why would he put it in the vault? Even if < RR5 he/she would still be able to use it, its not like the game would say

"You try to wield the mighty uber sidi dropped longsword of insanity, you hear a voice inside, 'You are not worthy of me you low realm ranked being' , you realize how stupid you have been by trying to wield your uber sword and shamefully sell it to the nearest Eagle Knight"

Over and out!

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
A casual player should not get a sidi drop.
Give the sidi drops to an active player.
Regards, Glottis

Even better, a good player should get the drop in case a good player can make much better use of a drop then a high RR player. A good player can actualy defeat a higher RR one, where high RR players lose from newbies. So lets make a list of good players who could effectifly make good use of the drop.

Also the player should be accaptable to all players, in case he/she gets a drop that other people did work for.

That would mean you NEVER get a drop becouse everybody is sick of your elitism. And you never get a drop becouse your game play can be match by any noob in Albion.

As GOA & Mythic writes, they make the game for RP, RvR, PvE and all in between and around. RR has nothing to do with Sidi, except that Sidi is more a high lvl dungeon and most RvR players are high level.

This discusion is about elitism vs principle. And becouse of that it never can be solved becouse 1 side never confess its pure elitism and the other side never will give up the principle. All between gets into the crossfire.

Fagane

 

[belth]

Might aswell start using a sidi weapon and sidi armor on my lowbie...

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by nuitari
Question for you:

Why would he put it in the vault? Even if < RR5 he/she would still be able to use it,

I did make the point that I was referring to someone who didn't RvR much... Following on from that, I said it would probably end up as little more than a trophy item because to use such a weapon to bash mobs in PvE would just be... well... wrong...

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Elitism :great:

A scout should not get a sidi drop.
Give the sidi drops to a player actually worth something in RvR.
Regards, Puppet

Puppet, muppet, you won't see me bring a scout to a sidi raid, I will bring a more usefull character.
And I agree with your statement, non-scout specific drops should go first to a more important class.
No use giving a scout item to an armsman or pally, or cleric for that matter, but that has never happend, so not sure what your point is...

Originally posted by Fagane
Even better, a good player should get the drop in case a good player can make much better use of a drop then a high RR player.

Not sure what you think, but you honestly think people like Krane, Gunnerr, Outlaw, Remi, Arcthic or Ciclya are not good players? They just got their rp's by sitting afk at the atk?
The got their rp's by skillfull playing, and spending time on their chars. Stop this crap that RR is not a measure of skill, cause it is (maybe not 100% of the time, but it is 95% of the time).

Originally posted by Fagane
That would mean you NEVER get a drop becouse everybody is sick of your elitism. And you never get a drop becouse your game play can be match by any noob in Albion.

I'm not playing this game for your pleasure, and never even met you ingame, so have no idea who you are. Fagane does not exist on Duskwave, so don't even know what class you play. How can you talk about my playstyle? I'm not saying I'm uber and all, just curious why you state I'm utter shite.
Stop projecting your own feeling onto me pls.
Regards, Glottis

 

[belth]

Originally posted by alithiel50
I did make the point that I was referring to someone who didn't RvR much... Following on from that, I said it would probably end up as little more than a trophy item because to use such a weapon to bash mobs in PvE would just be... well... wrong...

Well, stop doing the wrong thing and attending PvE raids...

 

[necrofill]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Puppet, muppet, you won't see me bring a scout to a sidi raid, I will bring a more usefull character.
And I agree with your statement, non-scout specific drops should go first to a more important class.
No use giving a scout item to an armsman or pally, or cleric for that matter, but that has never happend, so not sure what your point is...

If u had read Falcors rule... the items first go to the char with a spec for it

And btw why do lots ppl see scouts and archer in general as not-good rvr classes? take a friar e.g. they sox real time against an archer in rvr.. only reason ppl want a friars r coz of there resists buffs (dont come and say it r for the heals)!!!!

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by necrofill
If u had read Falcors rule... the items first go to the char with a spec for it

And btw why do lots ppl see scouts and archer in general as not-good rvr classes? take a friar e.g. they sox real time against an archer in rvr.. only reason ppl want a friars r coz of there resists buffs (dont come and say it r for the heals)!!!!

Since the patch Mid tanks are going out of their way to kill a scout leeching in a battle. I had 3 on me just this morning, and Loxleyhood had about 8 on his ass.
Guess they don't like their healers being unable to heal or something
Regards, Glottis

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by belth
Well, stop doing the wrong thing and attending PvE raids...

Why? PvE raids can be fun, just as a break from RvR every now and then... As a Paladin at least - I never play my Merc in PvE any more.

But the point is that I don't use uber drops or SC gear for PvE, because it's a waste of con and dur on expensive and hard to obtain items... I have my Epic armour and a load of RoG drops for hitting and being hit by mobs...

 

[adari]

conclusion, theres 83 rr5+ albs browsing these boards

 

[belth]

Originally posted by alithiel50
Why? PvE raids can be fun, just as a break from RvR every now and then... As a Paladin at least - I never play my Merc in PvE any more.

But the point is that I don't use uber drops or SC gear for PvE, because it's a waste of con and dur on expensive and hard to obtain items... I have my Epic armour and a load of RoG drops for hitting and being hit by mobs...

So, if someone enjoys PvE more than RvR, it's wrong for them to use a (Apoc only) Sidi weapon for that particular thing?

Your ROG drops are infinitely harder to obtain that those Sidi drops, of which there's an infinite supply.

Using stupid logic is easy.

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by belth
Your ROG drops are infinitely harder to obtain that those Sidi drops, of which there's an infinite supply.

What I'm saying is that you can use RoG's for PvE because it's not necessary to cap everything (ie resists). Therefore you don't need to select your items carefully to be able to cap what you need to cap. You can use RoG's that have 1-2 useful stats, even if they have something totally useless like +2h. Everyones always selling off junk RoG's that you can use for 50g a pop... not so hard to obtain at all!

 

[belth]

Originally posted by alithiel50
What I'm saying is that you can use RoG's for PvE because it's not necessary to cap everything (ie resists). Therefore you don't need to select your items carefully to be able to cap what you need to cap. You can use RoG's that have 1-2 useful stats, even if they have something totally useless like +2h. Everyones always selling off junk RoG's that you can use for 50g a pop... not so hard to obtain at all!

May I point at the stats of Sidi weaponry/armory at this point? For the most part, they're inferior to that of crafted and properly SC'd gear.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by alithiel50
I did make the point that I was referring to someone who didn't RvR much... Following on from that, I said it would probably end up as little more than a trophy item because to use such a weapon to bash mobs in PvE would just be... well... wrong...

But if he PvE's much?

 

[skile]

Originally posted by alithiel50
What I'm saying is that you can use RoG's for PvE because it's not necessary to cap everything (ie resists). Therefore you don't need to select your items carefully to be able to cap what you need to cap. You can use RoG's that have 1-2 useful stats, even if they have something totally useless like +2h. Everyones always selling off junk RoG's that you can use for 50g a pop... not so hard to obtain at all!

As far as I know u get more UV out of a 37 OC mp. So it can't be about utility? Correct? Must be about 2 things. Looks and maybe spd. But spd doesn't define how much damage you do overtime. Most people think high spd is much better than low, but it's no fact. Just opinions.

The only reason in reality is the looks. And a person whom does PvE raids in SI is seen by as many albs a 1337 FG in emain.

 

[skile]

Forgot one thing. That is proc. But isn't a proc as useful for a Pala optimised for PvE as much as a Pala optimised for RvsR. Lifetaps, Healprocs, Dotprocs are in reality just as useful in PvE.

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by alithiel50
What I'm saying is that you can use RoG's for PvE because it's not necessary to cap everything (ie resists). Therefore you don't need to select your items carefully to be able to cap what you need to cap. You can use RoG's that have 1-2 useful stats, even if they have something totally useless like +2h. Everyones always selling off junk RoG's that you can use for 50g a pop... not so hard to obtain at all!

I think both you and Belth make valid points. If RvR is your main purpose in DAOC (as it is for many) then sidi drops can help you cap the necessary stats. But then so can crafted items, but at greater cost (which in reality equals a time investment). If PvE is your main purpose in DAOC then sidi drops can help you perform more effectively in that role. My own personal preference is RvR but I would never tell other people what their main purpose should be. As a result, I couldn't justify inviting someone to a raid, using them to kill Apoc but then denying them equal opportunity to reap the rewards that come from killing him - let alone patronising them by offering them a lesser reward (the "you can have other drops" argument used by some really doesnt wash).

There really are several simple principles here:

1) The raid organiser can set whatever rules he/she likes. All should respect that.
2) The raid should be carried out by those people who have the necessary skills/levels to complete the task in hand. (hence level limits).
3) On completing the task all of those who were invited along should have equal right to reap the rewards.

This basically means that if you don't like a raid rules then don't attend, but likewise all those who are invited to attend should be treated equally. Anything else simply can't be justified - no matter how frustrating some of the lotto outcomes might seem.

 

[Tootz]

So I guess someone with 3 or 4 level 50 chars all sub RR5 would be thought as unworthy to receive a great drop? Yeah that makes sense :/

 

[old.shotgunstow]

st00pid lotto r00les

 

[old.Kerosene]

RR = Time spent in RvR. Not skill.

High RR does not automatically mean you are a god at the game.

 

[painbringer23]

well said Kerosene m8

all people on a sidi raid should be able to lotto for 'uber' drops, all the under RR5's have been fighting just as hard for the 3 or 4 hours that the raid has taken, only to be told that they cant lotto for a drop is criminal. if that happens you wont be able to get to apoc coz no one will want to join a raid with those disgusting rules. all those that said RR5+ only for uber drops should be ashamed of themselves

 

[Ilur_oom]

Originally posted by Tualatin
NO!

It's simply unfair.

ppl with lvl 50's and under RR5 have xp'd just as hard.. they pay the same money each month, they put the same effort in it as those RR5+ players are.

Maybe they don't RvR that often as those with RR5+ do or even if they do they don't have to be that successfull or whatever reason you think that makes the line, but that certainly doesn't make em lesser then RR5+ are.

I know i'm not gonna attend any raid when such rules kick in, and i know i'm not the only one. Be real, who wants to work just as hard for something they are unable to get, while someone else can.

They pay the same, They xped the same. surelly are they going to use a VERY RARE drop the same? dont think so... rr5 is 500k rps... u can do that in 2 weeks well not that much but i have to agree that people who uses the weapons (DEFENDING REALM which is all this game is about) should get the weapons first, well no rr5's with the suitable classes on raid? well lotto between all this is my opinion... not a raid organizer so do as u please

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by [FC]Ilur
They pay the same, They xped the same. surelly are they going to use a VERY RARE drop the same? dont think so... rr5 is 500k rps... u can do that in 2 weeks well not that much but i have to agree that people who uses the weapons (DEFENDING REALM which is all this game is about) should get the weapons first, well no rr5's with the suitable classes on raid? well lotto between all this is my opinion... not a raid organizer so do as u please

You kind of undermine your own point here. You're right - a dedicated player could get RR5 in a couple of weeks. But the way that you'd do that would be running around Emain with a good group farming - not really "defending the realm", is it?

If the rule was that you only got a chance at the drop if you'd been on ten keep takes and a successful relic raid, I'd have a little more sympathy with the "defending the realm" argument.

 

[wolfofslaughter]

whine

Been on god knows how many keep takes hell i even organised one long ago but that was in bg30-35 though...

Been on a few relic raids and i go rvr in guild groups from time to time.

Tried going rvr without guild around and its awfull trying to put a decent group together too guess what.. farm realm points.

rr5 in 2 weeks? bahh no chance unless you go rvr every night with a decent group which in this realm is differcult to put together due too NEEDing certain class, cleric sorc palladain if tank group etc...

Your realm rank does not show how much you help your realm relic raid or take keeps because doing them things does not get you good realm points most of the time. People dont go on relic raids or keep takes cuz they are too busy farming realm points or farming for cash to buy spell crafted gear to help them in rvr.

realm rank has no bearing on how much you help your realm... flame away muhahaha

 

[Sohan_THC]

Re: whine

Originally posted by wolfofslaughter
rr5 in 2 weeks? bahh no chance unless you go rvr every night with a decent group which in this realm is differcult to put together due too NEEDing certain class, cleric sorc palladain if tank group etc...

All true

But imagen after all that time you succeed in getting passed RR5
from that point youre stats are max, that is why ppl call it lvl51

so after all those months leveling it rvr till rr5 you got most parts that you want , probely got full s.c. then there is really nothing else left then a real rare drop. besides some respec stones cause some programmer changes youre whole spell line outcomming.
and you are sitting there on the lotto for the zillion time.
and some lowbee runs away with the item you are only here for.
while other have as much joy with a good piece of armour or some jewel.

most lotto's im in are for maybe 1 or 2 parts. but more often im not even in the lotte cause is no use for me the items. besides they are oke etc but got it or aint fitting in my s.c.

anyway the change you got to apoc is so slim that if we get there
those items are real throphy's for the long players (wether they good or noobs for the realm , they are on long and enjoyed plenty ppl)

and the lotto from the sadi raid where this is the start from the whole discussion turned out to be a fair and equal one.
the whole point off rr5 was not even an issue cause we never got to epoc let alone we got drops from it

 

[Exinferis]

Originally posted by Jiggs
not such a big deal atm, but in 1.64 alot of drops become extremely powerful for example so this will actually become an important issue in the near future.

for myself i just think level 50 and can use the item, sure its annoying to see a guy in epic who plays twice a week getting these items, but what the hey its only a game

oh my f**ing god what a staff

 

[loxleyhood]

Its Jesus in a staff!