"she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it"

[TdC]

There's been a lot of "message of hate" stuff written here. Who does he hate, exactly?

If you send a message in an envelope made out of dead bodies then imo it's a message of hate regardless. NB I personally think coalition busybodies are equally insane (not the soldiers...the crackbrains who send them off).

 

[Chilly]

"A house in a Lincolnshire village has been raided by Met police officers investigating yesterday's alleged terror attack in Woolwich.

Officers swooped on the detached house as the name of one of the suspects was revealed on internet forums and Twitter as Michael Adebolajo.

He has been identified as the alleged killer seen ranting on video shortly after the murder of the soldier in Woolwich.

It is understood the men, who are being treated in separate hospitals while under arrest, are most likely to be British citizens of Nigerian descent who have converted to a radical form of Islam.
However, they are not thought to have links to terror groups based in Nigeria, such as the jihadist militant organisation Boko Haram."

In short = brainwashed in the UK by Hate Clerics, I go back to what I said previously - fuck human rights laws, kick these Hate Preacher fucks out.

And once the government has demonstrated it can and will violate human rights laws in one instance, I wonder what will be next? The societal cost of treating the justice system like that is staggering. What other law don't you like? Maybe let's kill all foreign born rapists. But wait, what if it was a poor conviction?

You absolutely cannot pick and choose laws. Change the law, remove laws. Do not violate them, it's a slipperly slope. The human rights act is 99.99999% doing everyone a favour. Of course there are a (proportionally tiny) number of cases where it's daft, but that happens all the time in all areas of law. It's the cost of a well understood (in theory...) framework of law by which to operate.

 

[rynnor]

In short = brainwashed in the UK by Hate Clerics, I go back to what I said previously - fuck human rights laws, kick these Hate Preacher fucks out.

Bit early for this - as I said earlier there are reports that at least one of them attended a terrorist training camp in Somalia.

Edit: Al Shabaab in Somalia is what's coming from intelligence agencies.

 

[rynnor]

The named guy was originally Christian and converted to Islam at university - there have been worries about Uni's being used as recruiting grounds before over here...

 

[TdC]

And once the government has demonstrated it can and will violate human rights laws in one instance, I wonder what will be next? The societal cost of treating the justice system like that is staggering. What other law don't you like? Maybe let's kill all foreign born rapists. But wait, what if it was a poor conviction?

You absolutely cannot pick and choose laws. Change the law, remove laws. Do not violate them, it's a slipperly slope. The human rights act is 99.99999% doing everyone a favour. Of course there are a (proportionally tiny) number of cases where it's daft, but that happens all the time in all areas of law. It's the cost of a well understood (in theory...) framework of law by which to operate.

derp why you think they insta-invoked the terror laws?

 

[rynnor]

derp why you think they insta-invoked the terror laws?

Because it was a terrorist act? The big worry now is copycat attacks - there's also the suspicion that this is part of a campaign.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Terrorist Campaign sounds awfully businessy...Buy a bombing, get one for free?

Or one to send me to hell? "We're cutting 20% off".

 

[rynnor]

Terrorist Campaign sounds awfully businessy...Buy a bombing, get one for free?

Or one to send me to hell? "We're cutting 20% off".

There have been a few similar incidents which were discovered/prevented by security services but they couldn't trace them back very far - terrorists in cell structures are difficult to link together.

 

[BloodOmen]

The named guy was originally Christian and converted to Islam at university - there have been worries about Uni's being used as recruiting grounds before over here...

Doesn't surprise me to be honest.

Taken from live BBC coverage

"Jahan Mahmood, a community leader from Birmingham, tells the BBC the attackers are "two isolated individuals who appear to be brainwashed and indoctrinated". He says: "One of them appeared to quote from the Bible. An extreme jihadist would not quote from the Bible. We are sickened by these types of events and we are deeply disturbed by misguided interpretations of the faith."

And whats more disturbing

"Sources confirm to the BBC that the two suspects in the Woolwich murder were known to the security services."

 

[Scouse]

And once the government has demonstrated it can and will violate human rights laws in one instance, I wonder what will be next? The societal cost of treating the justice system like that is staggering.

Yup. A shitload more people would be tempted to pick up a gun and start taking pot shots. It's only the idea that we have higher ethical standards that stops this being a free-for-all.

The human rights act is 99.99999% doing everyone a favour.

Yup. And people like Abu Hamsa are the price we pay* for having protection against our governments.



*considering he's never been convicted of anything and has been incarcerated without trial for the past decade, in the "free" west. Sounds like he's paying the price to me.

 

[rynnor]

Personally I am concerned that this is already being exploited by those sympathetic to the security services who are trying to resurrect the internet snooping law - if these guys were already on the radar I cant see how this would make us any safer but it would be a massive loss of basic privacy for all.

 

[old.Tohtori]

He says: "One of them appeared to quote from the Bible. An extreme jihadist would not quote from the Bible. We are sickened by these types of events and we are deeply disturbed by misguided interpretations of the faith."

Would a spin like; "We don't appreciate that these individuals are associated with real terrorists who don't quote the bible" be fitting?

 

[soze]

"Sources confirm to the BBC that the two suspects in the Woolwich murder were known to the security services."

It does not mean a lot. If the Security Services pick them up and can not prove to certainty that they are guilty the human rights brigade will get them released and get nice fat compensation claims. They also do not have the man power to follow everyone the suspect 24 hours a day. If the head cases planned it in person and did not use a phone ect the Security Services did not stand a chance.

That is the hard part giving them enough power to tackle nut jobs without giving them so much that the human rights brigade get involved.

 

[rynnor]

That is the hard part giving them enough power to tackle nut jobs without giving them so much that the human rights brigade get involved.

They have the required powers its just a manpower issue when you have thousands of people on the radar - new laws can't fix that.

 

[soze]

They have the required powers its just a manpower issue when you have thousands of people on the radar - new laws can't fix that.

I always think of it like email spam. Set the bar too high and you catch legitimate email (innocent people) set it too low and you miss spam (terrorists). Even with the right manpower finding the right balance is important. You don't want innocent people who just visit the wrong building held for 72 hours while they try to prove a case. But you would like guys like this to have been caught.

 

[rynnor]

I always think of it like email spam. Set the bar too high and you catch legitimate email (innocent people) set it too low and you miss spam (terrorists). Even with the right manpower finding the right balance is important. You don't want innocent people who just visit the wrong building held for 72 hours while they try to prove a case. But you would like guys like this to have been caught.

A - You can never catch them all.

B - They react - if you intercept all emails they will move to something else for no real gain.

Edit - its what happened when the security services grabbed all the mobile phone data.

 

[Tom]

And that's just your sister.

It'd be funnier if it wasn't true. She's a complete mental, dresses like a ninja, hates Jews, homosexuals, the lot. She slagged my elder sister's new boyfriend off (he's a fantastic bloke in his 50s) but then wanted to come to their wedding. My elder sister told her she couldn't come

 

[DaGaffer]

"Jahan Mahmood, a community leader from Birmingham, tells the BBC the attackers are "two isolated individuals who appear to be brainwashed and indoctrinated". He says: "One of them appeared to quote from the Bible. An extreme jihadist would not quote from the Bible. We are sickened by these types of events and we are deeply disturbed by misguided interpretations of the faith."

Erm, the only Bible reference I heard was him talking about "an eye for an eye"...which is in the Koran as well, and is actually still applied under Sharia in Saudi etc. Besides, an "extreme jihadist" who'd converted from Christianity, wouldn't have any issues quoting bits of the Old Testament, especially in an excited state.

This guy in Birmingham is understandably trying to distance the killers from "mainstream" Islam, but I don't think its going to wash. For good or ill, the opinion of Muslims in Britain that the British state is an enemy of Islam is the majority opinion. The thinking of these killers is not a minority view amongst British muslims. Their actions obviously are, but they could have probably walked into any mosque in Britain before yesterday and found like-minded people, just, as with most violence, 99% wouldn't be prepared to do anything about it. Yes, this is probably all "our" own fault, but let's not kid ourselves this is minority of radicalised nutjobs influenced by the odd charismatic cleric like Abu-Hamza, its a lot wider and deeper than that, and even if we left Afghanistan tomorrow, it will take a generation to fix.

 

[BloodOmen]

Oh dear...

"Police trying 2 disperse 100s of Muslims on Victoria st Oldham from celebrating the murder of British soldier."

Has to be bollocks, if not just /facepalm

 

[Tom]

It is bollocks.

 

[Job]

I can't call them brainwashed or indoctrinated, they have a completely legitimate cause, we are killing innocent people in a country that we have declared war on and invaded.
It\s a whole host of things that are preventing people from accepting this basic fact.

 

[rynnor]

It is bollocks.

Seems so - tracks back to the EDL unsuprisingly.

 

[BloodOmen]

Seems so - tracks back to the EDL unsuprisingly.

wouldnt surprise me, thought it sounded off.. I know extremists do protest in such a manner but not 100s of them, was pasted to me via a mate.. fuck knows where he got it.

 

[chipper]

I can't call them brainwashed or indoctrinated, they have a completely legitimate cause, we are killing innocent people in a country that we have declared war on and invaded.
It\s a whole host of things that are preventing people from accepting this basic fact.

wasnt aware our troops were going round stabbing or beheading the taliban tbh. what a load of bollocks rightly or wrongly our troops are there and are targetting military targets. the taliban have killed more of their own than our forces. and people wonder why organisations like UKIP and the EDL are gaining momentum. its about time we stopped pussy footing around these hate preachers and kick the fuckers out for good. because eventually there are gonna be retaliation attacks against innocent muslims over this where does it end.

 

[Scouse]

I can't call them brainwashed or indoctrinated, they have a completely legitimate cause, we are killing innocent people in a country that we have declared war on and invaded.
It\s a whole host of things that are preventing people from accepting this basic fact.

I saw rynnor's facepalm for this post.

They're definitely brainwashed and indoctrinated, Job - I disagree with you there. But the cause is legitimate IMO.

We are slaughtering muslims. Not because they're muslim, however. But because they live in places that the wests imperial ambitions currently lie.

DaGaffer said it's "probably our own fault". Sort of. But not really. We protested the wars pretty damn hard. But the government didn't give a fuck. I think the murderer was right about that. But then the people who would see him kill others probably didn't give a fuck about him either...

 

[Gumbo]

Here you go Scouse, as requested, and something for Dukat to shove up his sensibilities. Apparently the full transcript before ITV chopped it up.

The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers. And this British soldier is one. It is an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. So what if we want to live by the Shari'a in Muslim lands? Why does that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and kill us? Rather you lot are extreme. You are the ones that when you drop a bomb you think it hits one person? Or rather your bomb wipes out a whole family? This is the reality. By Allah if I saw your mother today with a buggy I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we are forced by the Qur'an, in Sura At-Tawba, through many ayah in the Qu'ran, we must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our lands women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your governments, they don’t care about you. You think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? You think politicians are going to die? No, it’s going to be the average guy, like you and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so can all live in peace. So leave our lands and we can all live in peace. That’s all I have to say. [in Arabic:] Allah’s peace and blessings be upon you.

 

[rynnor]

They're definitely brainwashed and indoctrinated, Job - I disagree with you there. But the cause is legitimate IMO.

I don't see how its a legitimate cause for british citizens tbh.

If they were being killed over here then yes but valuing another community over the one that raised you - I just cant see how that could ever be a legitimate cause.

 

[Scouse]

I don't see how its a legitimate cause for british citizens tbh

You appear to be labouring under the missaprehension that people should be proud of "their" country.

Take me. I'm "British". But only by birth. If the cunt government of this land does something abhorrent then don't take my support for granted. The government's aims, and mine, are completely separate.

 

[brooky]

religion - isn't that arguing about who's got the best imaginary friend.




i don't see the christian fundamentalists indoctrinated by the local vicar wanting to bust a cap/knife/ied into anyone recently, why is it always the Muslim fundamentalists

 

[BloodOmen]

Here you go Scouse, as requested, and something for Dukat to shove up his sensibilities. Apparently the full transcript before ITV chopped it up.

The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers. And this British soldier is one. It is an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. So what if we want to live by the Shari'a in Muslim lands? Why does that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and kill us? Rather you lot are extreme. You are the ones that when you drop a bomb you think it hits one person? Or rather your bomb wipes out a whole family? This is the reality. By Allah if I saw your mother today with a buggy I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we are forced by the Qur'an, in Sura At-Tawba, through many ayah in the Qu'ran, we must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our lands women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your governments, they don’t care about you. You think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? You think politicians are going to die? No, it’s going to be the average guy, like you and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so can all live in peace. So leave our lands and we can all live in peace. That’s all I have to say. [in Arabic:] Allah’s peace and blessings be upon you.

That has to be the most backward shit I've ever read (what he said that is, not what you posted gumbo)

1. Extremists are responsible for the majority of civilian deaths in "their land" due to suicide bombings, people being murdered just for talking to foreign troops and people who try to stand up to extremism
2. He says women have seen the same? yes they've seen you spastics blowing yourselves up and taking any civilian close with it
3. How the fuck can he say "our lands" when he was born and raised in London, to me that sounds like something someone else has said to him and he's literally just repeated it word for word