Serious poll.

[Novamir]

maybe snarl, or spit at their feet and say "fucker" or "bastard cunt" or something when you meet them

 

[Novamir]

let me know how you get on btw.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

If you're only going to pay attention to comments you can rebuke, then perhaps I might as well leave this thread, and allow you to continue on your self-righteous warpath.

You make note that we should be more open-minded.
Perhaps you should try the same.

 

[Jozen]

haha it was k9 for sure hes such a cunt irl

 

[lofff]

rofl... all this thread made by cunts

 

[Vell]

First, if you have read what everyone in here said, they said that they use the terms "cunt" and "gay" etc when talking with their friends. Not walking around town saying to anyone they meet "Hello you cunt!".

Oh really? It may have just been my imagination, but I'm pretty sure that several people have responded to this topic with one word, or one line replies, that do this very thing.

Not everyone on these forums are friends, you don't know everything about everyone, and yet it's still perfectly acceptable for you all to come on here and type 'UR CUNTS!!!11'

So what's the difference?

If I am offended by the word 'cunt', it's still going to be offensive no matter whether I read it or hear it. The media used makes absolutely no difference - offensive is still offensive.

I really don't understand why it's neccessary to use obscene language, when there are so many other words you could use, that would get your point across so much better - and do so by only offending the person you mean to offend, and not a much larger audience.

If you want to call me a silly cow, go ahead - but do it in an intelligent way that isn't going to offend anyone else. I'm sure if you pay enough attention in school, you'll learn some big words that are much more fun to use.

 

[old.ST200]

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE CAVIAR.

YOU are the minority, the majority really doesn't mind this language/actually uses these words. If you don't like it, being the minority, maybe you should try to be a little more open minded than try to dictate what we should and shouldn't say.

Perhaps you are the kind of person who writes letters to BBC when phil mitchell tells his mother to fuck off or something before the watershed :/

 

[katt!]

edit: dutch

 

[shilak]

Its mainly a difference in generation. What appears to be unacceptable and offensive language to the older generation, isnt to the younger generation.

Members of the younger generation quite often use what could be considered as derogatory comments by the older generation when greeting and speaking to friends. I very much doubt that they use the same language when speaking to their parents, grandparents, or people they pass in the streets.

The problem comes from when people meet in online games, you may see a male dwarven healer but anyone could be playing that character. If you consider the person playing that character a friend, you tend to use the same language as you would when speaking to RL friends.

The other thing to consider is that the meaning of a lot of words has changed over the years, for example the word 'gay'. Originally it meant to be happy or joyous, it was later adopted by the homosexual community to indicate their feelings about their sexuality, and more recently within the online community it is used to indicate when something/someone is crap, pathetic or useless. And more recently the alternate spelling of 'ghey' has been used with respect to the later meaning.

But, at the end of the day, its not your responsibility to regulate the language other people use. You can always /ignore a person if you find them insulting, or maybe you would be better off hiding the channels completely.

On a similar point, have you considered the Frigg chain of regeneration spells that Shamans get? Where I come from 'frig' has a certain meaning, and I cant help but laugh when I hear people saying comments like 'Can you frigg me pls' or 'Dont worry about his health, im frigging him'. Just do a search on www.dictionary.com and you will understand what I mean.

 

[eneq]

Originally posted by old.ST200
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE CAVIAR.

YOU are the minority, the majority really doesn't mind this language/actually uses these words. If you don't like it, being the minority, maybe you should try to be a little more open minded than try to dictate what we should and shouldn't say.

Perhaps you are the kind of person who writes letters to BBC when phil mitchell tells his mother to fuck off or something before the watershed :/

Nice thinking......

Basically u saying what nazis did in germany under ww2 was there right becasue they was more then the Jews. Maybe overhitting the point but its still a point.

In all democracy the basic rule r to protect the minority from the majority. Not to protect the majority from the minority.

Basically it all comes down to human respect. What social class and mental lvl u r on. How your parents managed to bring u up. Etc Etc.

 

[shilak]

Originally posted by eneq


Nice thinking......

Basically u saying what nazis did in germany under ww2 was there right becasue they was more then the Jews. Maybe overhitting the point but its still a point.

In all democracy the basic rule r to protect the minority from the majority. Not to protect the majority from the minority.

Basically it all comes down to human respect. What social class and mental lvl u r on. How your parents managed to bring u up. Etc Etc.

And the minority are protected with features like ...

1) /ignore
2) /filter, if there is a missing offensive word I am sure Mythic would be willing to add it.
3) Get a new guild/group if you find too many members of your current one offensive.

To be honest, I have met very few people I would consider offensive during my time playing DAoC, and those that I did meet are currently all sitting on my /ignore list.

BTW, isnt freedom of speech also a basic right within democracy?

 

[Ziva]

Sigh... and there u go again... why u keep on answering your own topics? Why bother to start a thread if your not interested in the replies anyway? U seem to be more interested in your own statements then anything else.

For next time: please make a topic starting with "Why people use offensive language (or do anything not allowed in the eneq-world)according to eneq" so i can skip that one. Personally i am more interested in the reasons why people use offensive language then your "i am older then u an therefore u shoud hear my opinion"-mentality. The people u are trying to reach with your statements aren't listening to u anyway (basically the "you are a cunt/cow/whatever replies") and people that are not using offensive language (like me) don't need to be lectured by you.

Maybe better to change the question and ask people "Why do u call ingame-people u don't know cunts (or whatever offensive word u can think off)?" Is it fun? Do u like to make people angry? Are u frustrated in any way? Is it something u like to do IRL but too afraid to get punched? Or any other reason...

Add to this: just because i don't use it doesn't mean i'm not interested in why other people use it.

 

[Vell]

Originally posted by shilak

And the minority are protected with features like ...

1) /ignore
2) /filter, if there is a missing offensive word I am sure Mythic would be willing to add it.
3) Get a new guild/group if you find too many members of your current one offensive.

And none of these features are available on forums. I have just as much right to visit these forums as any one else, and I should not have to put up with offensive comments.

My question still stands - why is it necessary to use offensive language when we have a multitude of words which mean pertty much the same thing?

BTW, isnt freedom of speech also a basic right within democracy?

I think you are getting a bit confused here. Freedom of speech is not saying as many swear words in each sentence as possible. Freedom of speech is the oportunity to express your view points.

If you want to say 'I think it's ok to say cunt because.....' and gave some valid reasons - then that is freedom of speech. Simply saying 'cunt', however, is not.


And yes, I've always found frig quite a funny name to choose for a spell too.... I'm seriously hoping it means something else in the US. Although it would be quite funny if it didn't. However - this is not offensive - because it's intention is not to offend. However, the entire point of bad language is to shock and offend people - and that is why I object to it.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Ziva
Sigh... and there u go again... why u keep on answering your own topics? Why bother to start a thread if your not interested in the replies anyway? U seem to be more interested in your own statements then anything else.

For next time: please make a topic starting with "Why people use offensive language (or do anything not allowed in the eneq-world)according to eneq" so i can skip that one. Personally i am more interested in the reasons why people use offensive language then your "i am older then u an therefore u shoud hear my opinion"-mentality. The people u are trying to reach with your statements aren't listening to u anyway (basically the "you are a cunt/cow/whatever replies") and people that are not using offensive language (like me) don't need to be lectured by you.

Maybe better to change the question and ask people "Why do u call ingame-people u don't know cunts (or whatever offensive word u can think off)?" Is it fun? Do u like to make people angry? Are u frustrated in any way? Is it something u like to do IRL but too afraid to get punched? Or any other reason...

Add to this: just because i don't use it doesn't mean i'm not interested in why other people use it.

Yup, don't know why I bothered replying to this topic as eneq has just completely ignored my answers after giving one reply (in which he contradicts himself completely). So much for intelligent debate.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

For a school teacher, your English is quite miserable, Eneq.

 

[old.Niljindil]

First of all, i would just like to say to the people in here that i have replied to/have replied to me that i do not normally use "offensive"(define that btw? its offensive on a PERSONAL basis, which is my entire point) language, except when i am so angry that i cant think clear and use the easiest word i can find to make my point come across. With that out i would like to say:

Vell, the one thing you fail to understand is this(or maybe you do, but you insist on YOU BEING RIGHT as a basis for your argument).

When people use words like cunt/gay/retarded etc etc they dont use it because they want to make the person they talk to believe that they see them as a cunt/gay/retarded person. They say it because it is used by a MAJORITY of the people as general curses. I mean, really, how many times are the sentence "You fucking gay!" used when talking to a homosexual? I for one have NEVER heard anyone use that sentence for the purpose of making a homosexual person feel like an outsider/feel like he/she is worth less than everyone else or something like that, because everything that lives is worth just as much, which is nothing(you can say everything too, but nothing is better suiting imo).

What im trying to say here is that if I as a person use a word, say gay, I never(unless i will in the future, which i doubt)use it to make homosexual persons feel bad, but just to use it as a curse(I dont normally do this, since im taught by my mommy and daddy that its bad, mkaaay?!?). I will use it as "that thing over there is gay"(bad/funny/anything, depending on what im talking about and the situation, if i feel the persons i am talking to wouldnt understand what i meant, i would simply use another word) or something along those lines.

While i know that this is offensive to some people, they simply dont understand that when i say that word it has NOTHING to do with being a homosexual. The problem is that a person which is hs/fight for equality etc will assume without thinking "YOU IDIOT! DONT MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMOSEXUAL!! I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU! STOP IT YOU JERK!!" or something like that. The problem is perception, which will make me think when someone replies to someone using the word that they are <insert comment about low education, being immature or having bad parents here> that they are self-centered and totally fixated with them being "right" and the "offender" being wrong.

Just as an example, back in the days when the word "gay" wasnt used to describe a person but was changing every day towards that meaning. If you would have said that that word offends you, because in your part of the country it had evolved to a full scale "offensive" word, while where you were atm it would just have begun changing that they would think about you? If you think about that, you would have said the SAME thing that the people defending the "words" now is saying, which is that "it has a different meaning to me".

The words gay and cunt, are nowadays in some areas multipurpose words. In my neighbourhood(the young part of it anyway), saying for example "you are so gay!" noone, not one, would take it as "you are so homo!".

Just because of that it doesn't mean that everyone else should think the same as me. But when talking on international forums/chat channels, you should try to understand what the word means to the speaker, not to the reader(you) before making comments about "bad language".

Language is an evolving thing, and because of the fact that you think "gay" or "cunt" are offensive words, it doesn't give you the right to think that other people are less mature/educated, because that makes you as bad as you think we/they are! Think about that and you will see what i mean!

And to Keri:
Wow, i really thought you were smarter than that, but since you are so awfully biased, i will reverse the example(thats is what the entire "polite" thing was, an EXAMPLE!!!).

If i would go up to you, and say <insert sentence with words that YOU find offensive/abusive but that "6 year old person"(according to eneqs extreme language research) would use in everyday talk to their freinds>, then wouldn't you after that see him as a "lower" person from there and on? Im pretty sure you would, since that what i can understand from your comments so far. But what if someone would go up and say that EXACT same sentence to me? I wouldn't care really, of course i would judge him/her to be "that kind of person", but i still wouldnt see them as someone lower in "worth" than myself, i wouldn't start shouting comments like "Watch your tounge while im listening you infidel!" or something like that, which is what you(here: you and Vell) have done in this thread.

I'm not saying that i don't do this with certain things either, everyone is prejudiced in some way, but that doesn't mean that you can come barging in here like you are the "end all, be all" rulers of the english language(or any language for that matter).

Same words mean different things to different people, deal with that, don't try to change others into being like you, try to ignore the ones you dont understand or try to understand what the person means with that "offensive" "word" you are reading/hearing.

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by Vell
My question still stands - why is it necessary to use offensive language when we have a multitude of words which mean pertty much the same thing?

Since you seem to be of the opinion that if noone can answer that question then you are the "most important person around" when concerning which words someone can use. So i will just answer with this.

The words don't mean the same to you as they do to me, so you can not state that there are better words to use, unless you know what it actually means to me.

Want a question from me?

Q: Why don't you try to accept that people are of different opinions and belief's and try to see it from the other persons eyes?

And if you can't do that, then you aren't any better than them.

 

[Vell]

A few quick notes before I start. Firstly, I am not actually offended by bad words, but I know peope who are, and that's why I'm arguing. Secondly, my thanks to Niljindil, and others, who have managed to keep this to a good debate, and arguing your points, rather than just resorting to 'You are a fuckwit kthxbye', as some have done. For that I respect you, even if I do disagree.

Right, on with the show!

Originally posted by old.Niljindil

Vell, the one thing you fail to understand is this(or maybe you do, but you insist on YOU BEING RIGHT as a basis for your argument).

That's because I am right. I am always right. Mwahhahaha!

I mean, really, how many times are the sentence "You fucking gay!" used when talking to a homosexual? I for one have NEVER heard anyone use that sentence for the purpose of making a homosexual person feel like an outsider/feel like he/she is worth less than everyone else or something like that

As a gay person, I can honestly say I hear this a lot. And I do mean that. More often than not, it's directed at my male friends rather than me, I normally get 'Fucking Dyke' or some such witty line.

i still wouldnt see them as someone lower in "worth" than myself, i wouldn't start shouting comments like "Watch your tounge while im listening you infidel!" or something like that, which is what you(here: you and Vell) have done in this thread.

I'm not sure I have. If you've taken it as that, then you have miscontrued my meaning.
I'm not saying I'm superior - I am trying to make you aware that some people may well find the language used offensive, and therefore you should try not to use it unless your intention is to offend. If you are in a group of friends, who you know well, and know they aren't going to react badly, then that's fine, go ahead and do it. However, in-game and on forums, you don't know the people 'listening', and should try to refrain from using it.

Just because of that it doesn't mean that everyone else should think the same as me. But when talking on international forums/chat channels, you should try to understand what the word means to the speaker, not to the reader(you) before making comments about "bad language".

I would argue the other way. I would argue that when talking on international forums/chat channels, you should try to understand what the words mean to the listener, not to the speaker(you).

Let me take a few examples.
1) A random bloke walking past you on the street, and you think he is dressed badly. Now, if you were to shout out at him 'Oi, you look sooo gay!' he would be offended.
2) Someone you know pretty well walks past you in the street, and you think he's dressed badly. You shout at him 'Oi, you look sooo gay!' and he wouldn't be offended.

In example 2, you know your audience, and you know that it's alright to use that kind of language. That's fine, go ahead and do it. In example 1, you don't know your audience, you don't know whether they will be offended or not, and as such, I sincerely hope you wouldn't shout such a thing at a random person.

Now, really, I am still a random person. The question is - does it make a difference that I'm sitting at home typing, rather than walking down the road? I guess that's something we probably won't agree on, and we shouldn't have to either.

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by Vell
A few quick notes before I start. Firstly, I am not actually offended by bad words, but I know peope who are, and that's why I'm arguing. Secondly, my thanks to Niljindil, and others, who have managed to keep this to a good debate, and arguing your points, rather than just resorting to 'You are a fuckwit kthxbye', as some have done. For that I respect you, even if I do disagree.

Right, on with the show!



That's because I am right. I am always right. Mwahhahaha!


As a gay person, I can honestly say I hear this a lot. And I do mean that. More often than not, it's directed at my male friends rather than me, I normally get 'Fucking Dyke' or some such witty line.


I'm not sure I have. If you've taken it as that, then you have miscontrued my meaning.
I'm not saying I'm superior - I am trying to make you aware that some people may well find the language used offensive, and therefore you should try not to use it unless your intention is to offend. If you are in a group of friends, who you know well, and know they aren't going to react badly, then that's fine, go ahead and do it. However, in-game and on forums, you don't know the people 'listening', and should try to refrain from using it.



I would argue the other way. I would argue that when talking on international forums/chat channels, you should try to understand what the words mean to the listener, not to the speaker(you).

Let me take a few examples.
1) A random bloke walking past you on the street, and you think he is dressed badly. Now, if you were to shout out at him 'Oi, you look sooo gay!' he would be offended.
2) Someone you know pretty well walks past you in the street, and you think he's dressed badly. You shout at him 'Oi, you look sooo gay!' and he wouldn't be offended.

In example 2, you know your audience, and you know that it's alright to use that kind of language. That's fine, go ahead and do it. In example 1, you don't know your audience, you don't know whether they will be offended or not, and as such, I sincerely hope you wouldn't shout such a thing at a random person.

Now, really, I am still a random person. The question is - does it make a difference that I'm sitting at home typing, rather than walking down the road? I guess that's something we probably won't agree on, and we shouldn't have to either.

Anyway, glad you straigthened this out, since what you said now made me wonder if i truly understood what you meant. So, what i was trying to say is, that what eneq first said(about anyone using "offensive language" is either an uneducated kid or someone trying to insult someone else) i thought that you in some way defended that, and agreed that anyone using offensive language is a "what i just said". Well, anyway, my meaning was not to make it look like you should use your own "meaning" of words when you are on international channels, of course not, since noone would understand you . But i meant that IF someone does it(when talking to someone they know), one should try and understand what they meant, before starting debates about their IQ or how good their parents taught them etc etc.

 

[eneq]

Originally posted by shilak


BTW, isnt freedom of speech also a basic right within democracy?

yes just to a certain extend.

 

[eneq]

Originally posted by Uncle Sick(tm)
For a school teacher, your English is quite miserable, Eneq.

Jaha du vet inte om du är svensk men kanske detta gör att du förstår att jag inte är Engelska lärare.
Men kanske inte......

Understand ?

 

[eneq]

Originally posted by old.Niljindil

that what eneq first said(about anyone using "offensive language" is either an uneducated kid or someone trying to insult someone else)

Well let me put it this way.
If u talk to friends and talk about them being "cunts" etc etc then its not offensive. Ok ?

IF u do it on forum when debatting is that offensive ?
U will prolly say "yes"
Then i think my first statement that they r being kids or uneducated ADULTS. Because the lack the education to debate without using insults.

AND as i said in my first post. I feel this is language that differs from social background and age.

I think if the persons that agree with me about the use of this words, we will b in same age/social class/background/family situation.

And the people saying they use this words to friends/family/etc etc come from same social background etc etc.

Be sure i dont say they r stupid or anything. Its just we have diff social upbringing etc etc.

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by eneq


Well let me put it this way.
If u talk to friends and talk about them being "cunts" etc etc then its not offensive. Ok ?

IF u do it on forum when debatting is that offensive ?
U will prolly say "yes"
Then i think my first statement that they r being kids or uneducated ADULTS. Because the lack the education to debate without using insults.

AND as i said in my first post. I feel this is language that differs from social background and age.

I think if the persons that agree with me about the use of this words, we will b in same age/social class/background/family situation.

And the people saying they use this words to friends/family/etc etc come from same social background etc etc.

Be sure i dont say they r stupid or anything. Its just we have diff social upbringing etc etc.

Why does using insults in a conversation has to be about "lack of education"? Thats why we are all disagreeing with you, cant you understand that?

You want to judge everyone by just saying that "anyone who does this, is that. Why? Because i say so!".

The thing about different social upbringing is one thing, the thing about saying it in a way that you make others think that their upbringing is worse than yours, thats whats pissing people off(at least its pissing me off, thats for sure).

Just because we are in a different social class/familiy etc etc, doesnt mean it makes you right and everyone else wrong, and if you didnt know, the "im just asking" you tried to do in the first post of yours really really didnt make you look like you werent of that opinion yourself.

 

[Vell]

Hmmm. I can see why people thought I was siding with eneq, but I actually disagree with most of the things he said. I do agree with him that this kind of language is uneccessary, and maybe even wrong, to use, but apart from that we have very little in common.

Originally posted by eneq

Then i think my first statement that they r being kids or uneducated ADULTS. Because the lack the education to debate without using insults.

No, they're not uneducated. They're just educated in a different way - a way that maybe you don't approve of, but it's the way they've been brought up. Maybe they can debate a point, maybe they can't. The question is - should they have to? Nope.

AND as i said in my first post. I feel this is language that differs from social background and age.

I think if the persons that agree with me about the use of this words, we will b in same age/social class/background/family situation.

I've just stated that I agree with you about the usage of these words, but we come from completely different backgrounds, different social classes, different ages (I'm 22), with no children (thank god!). So how does this fit into your little model? Maybe I'm just the exception to the rule. A freak. Yeah, whatever. It's not like I've never been called that before. (By my mother, last time, if I remember correctly )

 

[Keri]

I watched a Barbara Walters interview with the Osbournes on TV tonight. I have never watched the program itself (The Osbournes), but had heard and read about it. What did I learn from the interview? Well .. I learned that there are people of my generation who do use swearwords several times per sentence in general family conversation. I guess language is evolving faster than I had thought .. although the elder Osbourne daughter, Amy (age 19) said that if she had said the word "hell" in school in England, she would have been kicked out of class.

Niljindil, I genuinely am aware that words that are offensive to some, are not offensive to others. I would never refer to a friend of mine as "a stoopid paki" if there were people of South Asian origin around me because I know it would offend them, even if my friend and I talked to each other that way all the time. I think maybe that is along the lines of the point I was trying to make. If we bring the "offensiveness" of language down to its lowest common denominator, we will use language that is offensive to the least number of people. As an example, if I were to call someone an asshole, it might be less offensive to a greater number of people than the c-word.

I was not implying that my views on language use are right and everyone else was wrong. I am as intrigued as many others are by the different ways in which people express themselves. I try not to use language that is offensive to others ... I don't see any need to do that, and I care enough about other people to not deliberately offend, and I care if I inadvertently do offend.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by eneq

Jaha du vet inte om du är svensk men kanske detta gör att du förstår att jag inte är Engelska lärare.
Men kanske inte......

Understand ?

That was not my point and I think you know that quite well.

Do you think English is my native language? No - but I at least make an effort.

... and if 'ur' English sucks balls, don't announce all high and mighty that you are a school teacher. Makes you look like an idiot.

Hey... too late.

 

[eneq]

Originally posted by Uncle Sick(tm)


That was not my point and I think you know that quite well.

Do you think English is my native language? No - but I at least make an effort.

... and if 'ur' English sucks balls, don't announce all high and mighty that you are a school teacher. Makes you look like an idiot.

Hey... too late.

Hmm so basically u flaming my spelling ?? and my use of the english grammar ? And u flamming me becaúse im a schoolteacher ?

Well u r Sick.
So i wont comment more on them issues. Try to stay ontopic stop next time u post.

 

[eneq]

Originally posted by Vell

I've just stated that I agree with you about the usage of these words, but we come from completely different backgrounds, different social classes, different ages (I'm 22), with no children (thank god!). So how does this fit into your little model? Maybe I'm just the exception to the rule. A freak. Yeah, whatever. It's not like I've never been called that before. (By my mother, last time, if I remember correctly )

WE come from completly diff backgrounds ?
How do u know ?

What social class are you ?
What background do you have ?

The age things is just 1 of many aspects.
I dont say that we both have exact the same background.
But we both been brought up using maybe same language use.
That dont mean we have same views on politic, religion, etc etc.

BTW some people (all?) thinks im trying to educate people here. I dont.
I just saying there are many people being offended seeing some words being tossed around in the mosy peculiar way.

Like using the word Gay when having fun with friends etc etc.

I call them kids. And they prolly are much younger then me.
I call them uneducated. And i still think they are uneducated in my point of view.
To call someone cunt when debatting is very uneducated TO me.
Becasue then they havent been educated how you discuss things.

Or do you think ending the post with "U CUNT" is a very smart and educated thing to do ?

Soz must go have class.

 

[Eleasias]

lol


stfu cunts

 

[)nick(]

ele you cunt!