See hidden all over again for minstrels

[Meduza]

Hunters got a pet....

Scouts got a minstrel...

I rly dont see the problem ?!? Except rangers should wajn, but they r overpwred alrdy!

 

[Powerslave]

true dat, minstrel insta pet is nice isnt it? (stealth,speed,dd,stun,mezz)

xcept only albs have it

 

[Jaapi]

U get dumber (sp?) by each post u make!

Indeed, what kind of moron would really say that minstels would lose 1 vs. 1.

 

[Fluid]

U get dumber (sp?) by each post u make!

(then again that IS in the spirit of FH...)

/go to PL another class

i'm sorry mr fotm infil, who doesn't even play the game anymore, what exactly do u know about the minstrel in toa rvr?

 

[XeffoInfil]

- Minstrels no longer have access to Mastery of Stealth. This change was made with version 1.70x, but was not documented.

FU mythic.

AMAGAD poor minstrels i mean because they cant defend themselves against SBs or NSs popping them i mean they only have insta stun insta dds and insta this and that...

stupid post they dont need any love they dont deserve mos

 

[Obscurity]

why the fuck do minstrels not get this

we're already nerfed to buggery with NF in RA terms, and now we dont even get the 'all stealth classes' RA? this is bullshit.

The rivers in africa were dry but there about to fill up again xDDD

 

[Tootz]

Just be thankful you have the likes of Safe Fall and Climb ability - archers don't get any of that even though they spend the same amount of points as every other person speccing in stealth.

Its about time Mythic sorted this whole mess out they have with the stealther classes. Everyone who specs in stealth should get exactly the same abilities as each other (e.g. climb walls, safe fall, detect hidden, etc). They also should get access to the same RAs, at least with respect to being able to spot enemy stealthers more easily.

Tbh though, mincers should never really have been classed as Rogues in the first place, big mistake on Mythics part. They should have been put in the Fighters line and given spec shield or something instead.

 

[XeffoInfil]

why the fuck do minstrels not get this

we're already nerfed to buggery with NF in RA terms, and now we dont even get the 'all stealth classes' RA? this is bullshit.

i really cant believe youre whining about getting nerfed to death in NF. you get AM dont you? so what SoS isnt as effective you still have it and it still performs its job. youre still overpowered with youre instas and ablatives.

stupid whine

 

[Marczje]

Moo is in my avatar, rly!

 

[Appollo]

Why shouldn't Mincers have stealth?

 

[noaim]

Why shouldn't Mincers have stealth?

Why shouldnt savages quad as often as when the class was introduced? Because it creates a big fucking imbalance, thats why.

 

[Ilienwyn]

Oh, teh funny. Mids and hibs !!ing for minstrel instants...

And btw, no problem removing stealth from minstrels. Give some nice line for heals/buffs/end instead please

 

[noaim]

Oh, teh funny. Mids and hibs !!ing for minstrel instants...

And btw, no problem removing stealth from minstrels. Give some nice line for heals/buffs/end instead please

Why? You can get parry like skalds.

 

[Antedeluvian]

2Handed, fighter tables and higher hit points that hibrids too?

 

[Gordonax]

lol, poor fucking minstrels, now they might have a chance to lose 1v1 with another stealther

If an SB loses 1v1 against a mincer of equal RR/ML, you either have a very good mincer (see Alpha for details), or a very poor SB.

 

[noaim]

2Handed, fighter tables and higher hit points that hibrids too?

I forgot that skalds get ablativechant, ae mezz, instastun, charm etc etc.

Anyways, this discussion have taken place quite a few times before, and nothing will change. But to whine because mincers dont get MoS is fucking retarded. To say that "now mincer will group with infils" is like saying "with ToA and 4.4 spd greaves, mid-groups will start using savages".

 

[noaim]

If an SB loses 1v1 against a mincer of equal RR/ML, you either have a very good mincer (see Alpha for details), or a very poor SB.

You mean the other way around ofc.

 

[Fluid]

If an SB loses 1v1 against a mincer of equal RR/ML, you either have a very good mincer (see Alpha for details), or a very poor SB.

yep, that sounds like a totally unbiassed opinion...

 

[Gordonax]

AMAGAD poor minstrels i mean because they cant defend themselves against SBs or NSs popping them i mean they only have insta stun insta dds and insta this and that...

stupid post they dont need any love they dont deserve mos

Remove all instas from the game, imho. Especially aoe stun.

 

[Aloca]

A minser if using all util he have available he should be impossible to kill.
Whacking thro 6000hp after you first been "stunned" for 20sec and ofc he could use ap to lower your dmg, and if you still alive the minser can just SoS away ..

And ofc if you compare you should always compare 2 good players against each others.

Ask Alpha how many 1v1 he lost with RAs up? hell ask him how many he lost with RAs down... since he got ML10.

 

[Gordonax]

yep, that sounds like a totally unbiassed opinion...

And you're completely objective

 

[Gordonax]

You mean the other way around ofc.

Nope.

 

[Gordonax]

A minser if using all util he have available he should be impossible to kill.
Whacking thro 6000hp after you first been "stunned" for 20sec and ofc he could use ap to lower your dmg, and if you still alive the minser can just SoS away ..

LOL if a mincer's stun is lasting 20 secs on you I'd suggest you stop playing now and do something else. Or go see a doctor. Or get a new watch.

And ofc if you compare you should always compare 2 good players against each others.

Ask Alpha how many 1v1 he lost with RAs up? hell ask him how many he lost with RAs down... since he got ML10.

Actually, you're completely wrong. You should always compare two *average* players against each other to get an idea of how powerful the class is. Alpha's an exceptionally good player who knows every trick in the book. I'd expect him to beat 99% of lower RR players and most of his peers. But he'd probably do the same if you was playing a smite cleric. You can't

 

[Rulke]

think he was meaning 9sec stun + zephyr

 

[Fluid]

LOL if a mincer's stun is lasting 20 secs on you I'd suggest you stop playing now and do something else. Or go see a doctor. Or get a new watch.

fyi zephyr + insta stun comes to about 20 secs, suprised u didn't know that.

Actually, you're completely wrong. You should always compare two *average* players against each other to get an idea of how powerful the class is. Alpha's an exceptionally good player who knows every trick in the book. I'd expect him to beat 99% of lower RR players and most of his peers. But he'd probably do the same if you was playing a smite cleric. You can't

2 average players would be counting ml's ofc as a char is not complete until it has ml10 and full toa sc? in which case the odds are worse for the lower rr sb as they can't purge the minstrels insta stun either

 

[noaim]

Actually, you're completely wrong. You should always compare two *average* players against each other to get an idea of how powerful the class is. Alpha's an exceptionally good player who knows every trick in the book. I'd expect him to beat 99% of lower RR players and most of his peers. But he'd probably do the same if you was playing a smite cleric. You can't

I think its more interesting to know what can be done with a class than to know what some dumbass fuck who cant play the class does with it. A well-played mincer wont lose 1 on 1 vs another stealther unless its an archer in shademode hiding, and probably not even then. What pl´ed mincer #132 can and can not win over is totally out of interest, since eventually he will be able to beat anyone too. So in short, its the class thats interesting, not the player.

 

[Gordonax]

fyi zephyr + insta stun comes to about 20 secs, suprised u didn't know that.

And the problem there, then, is zephyr - something that's also available to other classes.

2 average players would be counting ml's ofc as a char is not complete until it has ml10 and full toa sc? in which case the odds are worse for the lower rr sb as they can't purge the minstrels insta stun either

What do you think an "average" ML is? Not on Excal - worldwide. I would bet quite a lot it's much less than you think...

 

[noaim]

And the problem there, then, is zephyr - something that's also available to other classes.

Why does it matter for mincers ability to beat any other stealther in a 1on1 if other classes has FZ?

Anyways, they aint only close to impossible to kill (even if you beat em they can usually get away) in a 1 on 1 if played well, they create a huge imbalance for all stealthers, favoring albs ofc.

 

[Gordonax]

I think its more interesting to know what can be done with a class than to know what some dumbass fuck who cant play the class does with it.

Oh, it's more interesting, yes. But think of it this way. If you swing the nerfbat at a class based on the behaviour of the 1% of players who master it, you're actually going to hurt more the 99% of players who don't. And hurting the majority of player who play a class isn't in Mythic's interests.

A mincer is a very, very versatile class. That makes it a tricky class to master. When mastered, it's a very fearsome class to play - but mastering it takes time and effort. It doesn't have one-button insta-wins (the exception being Zephyr, and personally I'd remove all ML's from the game - worst idea I've ever seen). It has five-button-if-you-get-them-right wins.

Note that I'm talking about mincers solo here. I neither know nor care about stealth wars groups/duos with infi's. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

A well-played mincer wont lose 1 on 1 vs another stealther unless its an archer in shademode hiding, and probably not even then. What pl´ed mincer #132 can and can not win over is totally out of interest, since eventually he will be able to beat anyone too. So in short, its the class thats interesting, not the player.

Well even accepting your argument, he'll only beat everyone and everything once he's ML8 and RR7 plus. And that's a pretty big investment in time and effort. And I'd still say that, all things being equal with *average* ML, RR and ability players, mincers won't beat many other stealthers one on one.

THe whole "mincers are overpowered" thing is as overwraught and hysterical as was the original "savages are overpowered" thing. Like savages, minstrels need adjustment, not nerfing - and in this case, I'd say it's the dumbass ML (that should never have been introduced in the first place) rather than minstrels as such.

 

[Gordonax]

Why does it matter for mincers ability to beat any other stealther in a 1on1 if other classes has FZ?

What percentage of minstrels are ML8? Unless you can answer that, you can't really say much about how overpowered the *average* mincer was.

If you were saying "Get rid of FZ, it's unbalancing the game and making mincers overpowered" I could agree with you. MLs are the worst thing in the game, and I'd be happy to get rid of the lot.

Anyways, they aint only close to impossible to kill (even if you beat em they can usually get away) in a 1 on 1 if played well, they create a huge imbalance for all stealthers, favoring albs ofc.

But note that again - if played well. But the fact is that a mincer is a hard class to play well, harder than most in the game. More toys = more chances to fuck things up if you get something wrong.