See hidden all over again for minstrels

[Fluid]

and enchanters dont have too much util ?

no offense, but what the fucks that got to do with minstrels?

 

[Fluid]

Enchanters don't have much util, don't be silly. They're all about damage: PBAE, self-debuffed nuke, pet, DPS debuff, baseline stun. Not much more. Eldritches, for instance, are widely regarded to generally have more utility than chanters.

only noobs would say a chanter has more util than eld yah

 

[Jaapi]

only noobs would say a chanter has more util than eld yah

Only noobs argue about utility while no one has said anything about specs. Class in itself doesn't have utility, their specs do.

 

[Glottis]

People saying Minstrels are overpowered are looking only at the uber players such as Alpha. People who know their class inside out and can wtfpwn noob players 2-3 at a time.
I played a minstrel from rr1 to rr5, enjoyed it a lot, but it was in no way easy. You need rr6 or more to be able to cause agony and pain on most classes. Whoops, surprise, an rr6 chanter is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, an rr2 healer is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, an rr1 savage is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, any other Alb rr6 or lower class is a joke...
Regards, Glottis

 

[Fluid]

Only noobs argue about utility while no one has said anything about specs. Class in itself doesn't have utility, their specs do.

afaik it's kinda obvious when talking to people with a clue what specs work best so is kind of a moot point

 

[Dawn]

about mincers, if some1 read this thread he would get the picture that a mincer can wtf pwn all stealthers in 1v1, something that whoever has the slighest clue, or played a mincer for some would know how much out of reality it is.

about chanters / elds, you dont take into consideration that while an eld can do ae disease and ae str/con debuff, ns and dd/ae snare, chanter has baod, a pet, speed, and debuff making him able to solo kill a target in 4 seconds, and this last thing is more utility you could ever dream of.

 

[Fluid]

about mincers, if some1 read this thread he would get the picture that a mincer can wtf pwn all stealthers in 1v1, something that whoever has the slighest clue, or played a mincer for some would know how much out of reality it is.

about chanters / elds, you dont take into consideration that while an eld can do ae disease and ae str/con debuff, ns and dd/ae snare, chanter has baod, a pet, speed, and debuff making him able to solo kill a target in 4 seconds, and this last thing is more utility you could ever dream of.

savage can kill a class in 1.5 seconds, hell even a polearmsman can kill a mage in 3 seconds, so can a hero, or a bm, or a merc, or an inf, or a scout, or a ranger, or a hunter, the list goes on

 

[Jox]

People saying Minstrels are overpowered are looking only at the uber players such as Alpha. People who know their class inside out and can wtfpwn noob players 2-3 at a time.
I played a minstrel from rr1 to rr5, enjoyed it a lot, but it was in no way easy. You need rr6 or more to be able to cause agony and pain on most classes. Whoops, surprise, an rr6 chanter is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, an rr2 healer is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, an rr1 savage is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, any other Alb rr6 or lower class is a joke...
Regards, Glottis

lol

Fucking ass

 

[Belomar]

I actually have to agree with Direbeauty on this one, though.

 

[Fluid]

I actually have to agree with Direbeauty on this one, though.

ofc u do, u have a mincer

 

[Arawn]

A minser if using all util he have available he should be impossible to kill.
Whacking thro 6000hp after you first been "stunned" for 20sec and ofc he could use ap to lower your dmg, and if you still alive the minser can just SoS away ..

And ofc if you compare you should always compare 2 good players against each others.

Ask Alpha how many 1v1 he lost with RAs up? hell ask him how many he lost with RAs down... since he got ML10.

ML 9 does the job...10 is zzzz

 

[Graveland]

After my initial rage and frustrative feeling passed away, I started to think about this.

Removing MoS from minstrels is HUGE nerf for solo-minstrels, like myself. With RR and caution, we have possibility to avoid getting jumped by other stealthers, mainly SB and NS. Hunters/Rangers rarely get the initiate on me, unless SL or TS. Solo minstrel can actually kill any class 1vs1, even BD. One thing ppl are missing here is the fact that we are not yber in anything. Most common spec with minis is 50ins 30slash/thrust 30stealth - To get the best abla (70pts (and DD's 'n' stuff ofc)). Now ok, I get 70pts abla that pulses every 6 second - how this is yber? Against SB/NS they still outdamage me with quite high difference in dmg. DD's usually go off with 170 and 140-150. Recast timer 15sec. 9sec stun that is affected by resists & det. Hooray! And what about my weapon, eh? To average SB/NS with capped ToA buffs, I hit for around 200dmg in every 3 seconds with Battler. Low WS ensures that lots of my swings are actually evaded. My defence against dualswing heat lw's/Battler+Malice is chain and 6sec pulse 70pts abla - do the math guys, you can beat that! Yes I realise that extra defence like SoM might tip the balance, but hey I see SoM on every stealther smart enough to get it. FZ is also another matter, but before you get to ml8 and rr5+ you have to play quite a lot... But same goes for any class - when you hit the higher RR's, ANY class can be really devastative.

Yada yada, etc, Im actually starting to think that removing MoS from minstrels aint that bad. Yes it hurts a lot if you are pure solo, but this is a nice encouragement to play in groups with minstrel. Heck, I even might spec out of stealth and go all the way with weapon spec

Seriously, this is a fucking joke by Mythic. They must think its fun to destroy classes like this uke:

 

[emma]

yes because MoS 3 is actually clip-range but they decided not to tell you about it.

oh wait it's not...

Am I right in thinking MoS 5 is still less than current see hidden except for 34 points?
(being 250+675 for an assassin, no?)

I'm far from an expert on stealth though so I'm sure someone will correct me

Its impossible to see any stealther at clip range now in NF, even a level 1 rogue, stealth detection range is now hard capped at 1900 units. Still a long way but clip range atleast ;p

As for minstrels loosing MoS, they lost it because there even though they have the stealth there not "designed" to be a solo stealth class like Assassins or Archers. That is how mythic intended the class to be, that along with minstrels getting better RA`s to support there groups like AM etc would mean an rr10 minstrel with AM and MoS5 would make combat between stealthers/stealth groups completely 1 sided.

So by removing MoS it would hopefully deter minstrels from stealth groups as they would be the first one target by any archer or assassin within view.

 

[emma]

People saying Minstrels are overpowered are looking only at the uber players such as Alpha. People who know their class inside out and can wtfpwn noob players 2-3 at a time.
I played a minstrel from rr1 to rr5, enjoyed it a lot, but it was in no way easy. You need rr6 or more to be able to cause agony and pain on most classes. Whoops, surprise, an rr6 chanter is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, an rr2 healer is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, an rr1 savage is also evil...
Whoops, surprise, any other Alb rr6 or lower class is a joke...
Regards, Glottis

Lies.

Mercs do perfectly well at low realm rank, well mine`s only RR 2l9 yet ive been wtfpwning SB and NS`s since rr1 in emain.

Complaining about your class or any alb class not being able to compete because of low realm rank is BS tbh. Sure RA`s help, but if you rely on them too much which it seems you do, you cant be that good a player. Use tactics not "I win" RA`s.

 

[Glottis]

Lies.

Mercs do perfectly well at low realm rank, well mine`s only RR 2l9 yet ive been wtfpwning SB and NS`s since rr1 in emain.

Complaining about your class or any alb class not being able to compete because of low realm rank is BS tbh. Sure RA`s help, but if you rely on them too much which it seems you do, you cant be that good a player. Use tactics not "I win" RA`s.

I'm not complaining about Alb classes not being able to compete.
I'm saying that an rr6+ Minstrel is pretty darn uber. Just as an rr1 savage is pretty darn uber.
People where claiming in this thread an rr1 minstrel would wtfpwn groups of rr6+ sb's non stop all day long.
Regards, Glottis

 

[rure]

Minstrels are not intended to be equal in stealth ability - in terms of receiving special abilities that highten stealth detection and avoidance of detection while stealthed - to an archer or an assassin. This has always been our design goal for this class. This is why minstrels also did not get See Hidden or True Sight when they were implemented. Removing MoS from minstrels is a design decision grounded in consistency, even if it is a decision which sparks debate.

http://vnboards.ign.com/Albion_Rogue_Professions/b20906/70176803/?50

 

[Reignfire]

Indeed, what kind of moron would really say that minstels would lose 1 vs. 1.

The kind of moron Minstrel that doesnt know how to play his class and want to join the bandwagon and whine rather than adapt

 

[Funkdocta]

Minstrels are over powered the only people who think otherwise are minstrels, for obvious reasons.

They have the most utility of all classes in the game. If not played by a noob they can kill most other chars 1 v 1. They are essential to fg v fg zerg v zerg rvr. They can also participate in stealth wars.

When this is combined with the huge amount of abilities they have they are a very over powered class. They are after all only meant to be a support class like bard's and skalds.

With AM they really are going to be infils personal assistants. No infil should leave home without one I think its somthing that is going to unbalance stealth wars even more than it is atm, and will eventually end up with another nerf. If they where to have MoS also then it would just start getting silly.

Not have MoS may have a positive effect for mincers. Seeing as there is always a couple of infs in their pocket then they will be the bait for sb's and ns's. Attacking a mincer is risky buisness as it is.

If you think minstrels aren't over powered then you are just plain ignorant.

Im not saying they are the only overpowered class in the game either, as we all know there are a few other chars overpowered in various realms.

 

[Gordonax]

Minstrels are over powered the only people who think otherwise are minstrels, for obvious reasons.

So you're saying that if you play a minstrel, you're not qualified to assess the strengths of minstrels, whereas if you're never, ever played one, you are? Interesting logic.

I'm always honest about the strengths of weaknesses of classes I play, and those I play against. I don't see the point of being anything else. If minstrels were overpowered, I'd be the first one to say (and probably stop playing it permanently, as overpowered = boring in my book).

They have the most utility of all classes in the game.

Yes.

If not played by a noob they can kill most other chars 1 v 1.

No. They're damn easy to play badly.

They are essential to fg v fg zerg v zerg rvr. They can also participate in stealth wars.

Yes. But versatility doesn't mean overpowered. Seperate out the two issues.

When this is combined with the huge amount of abilities they have they are a very over powered class. They are after all only meant to be a support class like bard's and skalds.

I still don't see any evidence for them being overpowered in what you're saying. You're saying that they have a lot of abilities, which is true, but then saying that all but a complete noob can win 1vs1 with one. Yet having a lot of abilities makes a class more complex to use: you have to decide what the appropriate ability is at any one time. Show me the minstrel insta-win buttons.

With AM they really are going to be infils personal assistants. No infil should leave home without one

Yes, minstrel + infil is the best stealther duo around. But unless you have identical classes throughout the realms, *someone* is always going to be the best duo. The question is whether they are so far ahead of the rest that other realms can't compete at all - and I've yet to see any hard, solid evidence of that. I've seen a lot of whines, but no real evidence.

I think its somthing that is going to unbalance stealth wars even more than it is atm, and will eventually end up with another nerf. If they where to have MoS also then it would just start getting silly.

The key problem is that AM doesn't end when the mincer dies, which is a pretty obvious bug. Otherwise you can work out pretty easy tactics to beat it.

If you think minstrels aren't over powered then you are just plain ignorant.

You can easily overcome ignorance. Present some evidence. Show me some fight logs. Point to the outrageous amounts of RPs that minstrels get compared to other Albion classes (except, of course, they don't).

 

[Brilliance]

the fact remains we ARE a stealther class you retard, this is not a thread for idiot mids who know nothing about anything except which fotm they're gonna roll next to spam useless crap about how a class should or should not be something that it CURRENTLY IS.

The point is we ARE a stealther class, we ARE a 'solo-able' class (atm) and this change is TOTAL BULLSHIT.

OOOOOPSTTT!!! sounds like QQ to me!!!!! ;-)

 

[Knoll]

ouch u are not supposed to be a stealth class still u got chain and stealth/climb walls/safe fall.....i hope that will change in futer patch cause climb walls and safe fall on a chain class is idiotic to say the least...

 

[Gordonax]

ouch u are not supposed to be a stealth class still u got chain and stealth/climb walls/safe fall.....i hope that will change in futer patch cause climb walls and safe fall on a chain class is idiotic to say the least...

Minstrels have been a stealth class since day one. That isn't going to change, so you can carry on hoping.

 

[Byssa]

just like to add. If a mincer see u most of the time adn they mezz u 1st u basicly dead.

In my point of view they are overpowered at high RR cause they have access to all kind of amazing ablities.Having MOS removed is a good thing cause i don't like gettin seen and mezzed while i am in stealth.. another fact is how many solo mincer do u seee, correction how many alb stealthers do u see not adding ?? but at low rr mincers can be very easy to be killed depending on teh skill of the player.

But the main thing is mincer most of the time see u 1st.he lands 2 dd which do like 300-400 damage already and than mezz u. if u have purge down u basicly dead even if u do u still get stun and than styled to death and ofc theres always those that jsut keep goin out of view until there dds are up again..

I am happy that mythic is doin a lot of testin for NF so when it comes out we get teh best balance benfit from it. I miss my active TS thu .... QQ

 

[Dawn]

savage can kill a class in 1.5 seconds, hell even a polearmsman can kill a mage in 3 seconds, so can a hero, or a bm, or a merc, or an inf, or a scout, or a ranger, or a hunter, the list goes on

you.know.stuff.

edit: just to clarify - im talking about fg wars on the chanter thing, since i cant imagine you mean that stuff polearmsman cant even swing twice in 3 seconds XD

 

[Flimgoblin]

noone answered my question:

is current true sight (on archers) plus reasonable range see hidden (for 8 points on assassins) any worse than mastery of stealth in new frontiers?

 

[Knoll]

Minstrels have been a stealth class since day one. That isn't going to change, so you can carry on hoping.

minstrels lost MoS so ye i know im right u fucktard...

 

[Knoll]

noone answered my question:

is current true sight (on archers) plus reasonable range see hidden (for 8 points on assassins) any worse than mastery of stealth in new frontiers?

true sight is nothing like MoS i rather keep TS on 30 min timer then this new MoS ability but if u are happy i love to fuck u over time after time....

 

[evial bloodstone]

Dos mids or hibs have eny char who comes even close to a mins, i dont think so.

 

[Kami]

That's the point I think. Minstrel is a poorly concieved mish-mash of abilities that at the time weren't on/wouldn't fit on other alb classes so they just shoved them all on one. I play a level 50 one and would like some abilities removed so we have a more defined roll in groups and solo. I know most minstrels will disagree with that of course

I would of course expect other abilities strengthened to compensate for those lost.

 

[Gordonax]

minstrels lost MoS so ye i know im right u fucktard...

My my, did mummy threaten to stop paying your DAoC bill today?

Minstrels losing MoS doesn't mean they're going to stop being stealthers, which is what you claimed you looked forward to.