Politics Scottish Independance.....Thoughts?

[old.user4556]

I see they've started flying a Saltire at Westminster. I can't tell you how empty, fake and deeply patronising that is.

I've also just read on the news that Miliband, Clegg and Cameron are en route to Scotland to tell us to vote no. Nothing will secure a Yes vote more than a trio of the most distrusted politicians in UK politics, especially Nick fucking "two faced" Clegg.

I'm not a fan of the SNP, but fuck me, Westminster politicians have absolutely no idea what they're doing or what's about to happen.

 

[Raven]

Nonsense.

Are we to believe, as I've seen scattered around the internet, that "the English" stepped up and bailed out "the Scottish"? Are you really sure about that? What about Ireland's bailout? The bottom line is that whilst we're hoodwinked into believing the almighty BoE bailed out the banks solely, then that's not entirely the truth. To get back to your point, why would they suddenly move south of the border?

No, it was the central bank of GB (not England, yes yes, called the bank of England). The central bank that will not exist for Scotland if it happens again and have no obligation to the Scottish economy. Yes we contributed to Irelands bailout, as we did with other European countries...Scotland won't be in Europe for a while and may not even get let in anyway. The fact is Scotland will have no control whatsoever over its currency and its economy will still be ruled by Westminster, going from some say to no say.

 

[old.user4556]

Did you read the link about a substantial amount of money coming in from the US?

Only in a currency union would iScot be ruled by Westminster.

 

[Raven]

I see they've started flying a Saltire at Westminster. I can't tell you how empty, fake and deeply patronising that is.

I've also just read on the news that Miliband, Clegg and Cameron are en route to Scotland to tell us to vote no. Nothing will secure a Yes vote more than a trio of the most distrusted politicians in UK politics, especially Nick fucking "two faced" Clegg.

I'm not a fan of the SNP, but fuck me, Westminster politicians have absolutely no idea what they're doing or what's about to happen.

I think its a very embarrassing period for all concerned. National destiny for the Xfactor generation.

 

[Raven]

Did you read the link about a substantial amount of money coming in from the US?

Only in a currency union would iScot be ruled by Westminster.

However Scotland use GBP they will be ruled by Westminster. Whether that's real currency union or whether they get it from Tesco.

 

[old.user4556]

It's terrifying, yet strangely exciting that politics in the UK is about to get a sensational reboot, probably for the better (over the long term!).

 

[old.user4556]

However Scotland use GBP they will be ruled by Westminster. Whether that's real currency union or whether they get it from Tesco.

Not sure what you mean? ... only if they choose a formal currency union. If they use the Dollar, Pound, Groat whatever, then they'll not have fiscal policy set by the BoE

 

[Raven]

Currency union does not necessarily mean Scotland would have any control whatsoever on GBP, why would GB even consider giving up partial control of its currency? Scotland would not be able to control inflation, interest rates etc. It would be madness.

 

[old.user4556]

Yes I agree, but a currency union was ruled out today, it's not happening. It's their own currency, or the Euro.

 

[Embattle]

Regarding currency union - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29133217

 

[throdgrain]

View: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=370060086479072&fref=nf

 

[old.user4556]

View: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=370060086479072&fref=nf

They're so retarded, they don't even realise they don't get a vote.

 

[throdgrain]

Funny though

 

[old.user4556]

T'was!

 

[DaGaffer]

The effect on the pound will be minimal but Scotland having zero control over its currency will be a problem for Scotland, none of their banks or currency will be guaranteed which will mean all their insurance, pension and other financial organisations will up sticks and move south of the border.

It would not be in Scotland's best interest to continue to use GBP, I don't even know why the SNP are trying to sell it as a good thing. They may as well start using the US dollar.

As I said before, all of this should be sorted out before a referendum, it is not something they can change their mind about if it all goes tits up.

There is one reason, and one reason only for Salmond's insistence on Sterling; the Euro. Without a currency union it weakens the SNP argument that Scotland isn't an accession state to the EU under the UK's terms (which is a very shaky argument anyway) and without that, Scotland has to join the Euro if it wants to be in the EU. No ifs, no buts, the only negotiation is about when. And if the SNP had campaigned on the basis of using the Euro, they would have been fucked in the current climate. Salmond doesn't even really want Sterling, he couldn't wait to dump it five or six years ago; but it's a poison chalice now.

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=370060086479072&fref=nf

Haha, my old man was there.

 

[Scouse]

It's terrifying, yet strangely exciting that politics in the UK is about to get a sensational reboot, probably for the better (over the long term!).

I think what'll happen is subtle economic warfare against Scotland tbfh.

 

[Hawkwind]

Are we to believe, as I've seen scattered around the internet, that "the English" stepped up and bailed out "the Scottish"? Are you really sure about that? What about Ireland's bailout? The bottom line is that whilst we're hoodwinked into believing the almighty BoE bailed out the banks solely, then that's not entirely the truth. To get back to your point, why would they suddenly move south of the border?

We (together - tax payers) bailed out RBS, a Scottish based bank. A lot of that banks problems related to its take over of ABN-Amro which Salmond pledged to support and assist with. Stating that it was important to Scotland to have a strong bank. Now he is washing his hands of that and blaming the Government for the situation. Even stating that it happened under their watch and financial rules. It was a badly managed takeover where the people residing over RBS did not do proper due-diligence on the ABN-Amro books.

Politically, if Salmond reneges on any debt ownership it will cause a situation that will certainly have ramifications moving forward. Increased borrowing costs from the money market is a certainty. Also what will actually happen to the banks, which in the case of RBS is largely owned by the government due to the bailout. Given uncertainty over currency, at least on Scotland's side, the banks are expected by many to move south in the 18 month between yes vote and actual independence. Standard Life has already planned this. Lloyds will have little choice but to move. The others are expected to start making plans only after the vote. The currency and debt question is key to all of this and is a massive unknown risk.

This is going to be one huge mess with long reaching financial impacts both sides of the border. The pound will slide and markets, especially the banks, are expected to lose up to 10% of their value.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...and-wont-pay-back-debt-Alex-Salmond-says.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-your-bank-be-in-an-independent-Scotland.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...otland-risks-being-destabilised-by-banks.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ill-Scotland-separate-from-Great-Britain.html

Reading the above this morning is very depressing. The fallout following a Yes will be far worse than expected.

 

[Job]

RBS are planning to relocate to London after a yes vote.
If your'e national bank is jumping ship then you're fucked.
How the living feck can they be serious about a successful independence when you're own bank has no confidence in you.

 

[old.user4556]

RBS have not said they're moving to London.

Job, fuck sake, facts please.

 

[Job]

It's inevitable, they won't say either way and EU rules will almost force it.
Economists have questioned whether an independent Scotland would be able to host such large banks. Banking industry sources told Reuters last week that Lloyds is considering moving its registered offices to London if Scots vote for independence. RBS is examining its options.
Which is political speak for 'is there a train fast enough'

 

[Raven]

RBS aren't really a Scottish bank per se, they are (Currently) a British bank where most of their customers are in England (or at least public customers) and are majority owned by the British government. Scotland would probably get a share of the bank on independence or they will likely sell the shares in it beforehand.

Either way it would probably make sense for them to move South of the border post independence as with any other bank. (not that they have said so yet)

 

[old.user4556]

It's inevitable, they won't say either way and EU rules will almost force it.
Economists have questioned whether an independent Scotland would be able to host such large banks. Banking industry sources told Reuters last week that Lloyds is considering moving its registered offices to London if Scots vote for independence. RBS is examining its options.
Which is political speak for 'is there a train fast enough'

You're talking shite.

Lloyds' head office is already in London. The badly written article you've misquoted is that the Bank Of Scotland's office is potentially being moved from The Mound to London. BoS is simply a brand, Lloyds is run almost entirely from London. It's blatant scaremongering of the highest order.

The same goes for RBS, almost all of it is run from London, their head office is a pokey wee place in Edinburgh and is simply a brass plate on a wall.

 

[Hawkwind]

Regards RBS maybe the UK government will be kind enough to part with 8.3% of the RBS shares owned by them . Lloyds and RBS will move, I believe that is their only option given the issues on currency and working from within and iScot.

 

[Scouse]

We (together - tax payers) bailed out RBS, a Scottish based bank.

Owned by private investors.

It's not the scottish people who should suffer for financial mismanagement and government for the rich, by the rich.

RBS should have been allowed to fail, and the rich investors should have lost their cash - and public money should have been used to ensure small investors, the public and the vulnerable didn't lose out - and the rich were protected to the same level as everyone else.

Instead the rich were bailed out and protected by the masses.


THIS is partly why scotland has got such a strong independence push. They don't want to be part of a policial system that only works in the interests of a tiny few.

 

[old.user4556]

Regards RBS maybe the UK government will be kind enough to part with 8.3% of the RBS shares owned by them . Lloyds and RBS will move, I believe that is their only option given the issues on currency and working from within and iScot.

Move where? From England to .. er .. England?

 

[Raven]

THIS is partly why scotland has got such a strong independence push. They don't want to be part of a policial system that only works in the interests of a tiny few.

Aww, bless, you think it will be any different?

 

[Scouse]

Aww, bless, you think it will be any different?

Not really. But it'll definitely not change if they keep the usual shower of shit in charge.

Are you suggesting they should tamely bend over and take it like the English - when they've the opportunity to swap dicks?

At least with a new shag there's a honeymoon period of exciting sex before the drudgery sets back in...

 

[Raven]

No, I think this is just an utter waste of time in the bigger scheme of things.

The only way things will change is be revolution.

100% voter turnout might lead towards change, it may even help create parties that actually reflect what the populous want, not just best fit or least shit, that we have now.

Its why I filthied myself by voting UKIP in the Euros, voting Tory or Labour wouldn't have made any difference we would still bumble along. We could see real democratic change in Europe. Lots of angry Guardian readers had a fit about it but they too stupid to see that Europe is not working.

*I am actually pro-Europe but in its current form it is undemocratic and not fit for purpose.

The only way for Scotland to make things better is to stay in Britain and push for more democracy. Leaving will just mean their undemocratic leaders have the same accent, nothing more.

 

[Scouse]

No, I think this is just an utter waste of time in the bigger scheme of things.

The only way things will change is be revolution.[/quote]

I disagree. I think the scots have a much better chance of changing the status quo. Politics would be up for grabs in skirtland if they kick the old guard out.

100% voter turnout might lead towards change, it may even help create parties that actually reflect what the populous want, not just best fit or least shit, that we have now.

The reason there is low voter turnout is not because the English are uninterested in politics - it's that our politicians fail to offer us something worth turning out to vote for.

Scotland is proof of this.