Politics Scottish Independance.....Thoughts?

[Scouse]

If you've seen food prices in Norway you'd realise they need £1,000,000 just to buy a week's shopping.

I will never forget paying £26 for a beer and burger.

They get paid shitloads...

 

[MYstIC G]

Cry me a river Meg, you're a grumpy bastard who gets far too emotional.

And you're a condescending prick it's amazing how many people on a gaming forum are all so well read on everything ever yet do fuck all with themselves.

Keep on facepalming, you trooper you...

 

[old.user4556]

it's amazing how many people on a gaming forum are all so well read on everything ever yet do fuck all with themselves.

What does that even mean?

You're out of line, especially for a mod.

 

[MYstIC G]

What does that even mean?

You're out of line, especially for a mod.

Respect is earned, you don't get it automatically awarded because I'm a mod, what are you going for here, you think Deebs is going to give me a a spanking... fucking lol. And again condescending, who the fuck are you to tell me I'm out of line? Nobody put you in charge.

Your continued bullshit of trying to chew out other people's posts on the basis you think they don't read, painting you as some sort of authority whilst you simultaneously spend your life pressing a facepalm button is laughable... Go you...

 

[Gwadien]

Bored of all this devolution speak.

Let's bring England into this, because face it, if it comes to that, we're involved too.

If Scotland doesn't get independence, we should get a vote if Scotland should get further devolution.

 

[old.user4556]

Respect is earned, you don't get it automatically awarded because I'm a mod, what are you going for here, you think Deebs is going to give me a a spanking... fucking lol. And again condescending, who the fuck are you to tell me I'm out of line? Nobody put you in charge.

Your continued bullshit of trying to chew out other people's posts on the basis you think they don't read, painting you as some sort of authority whilst you simultaneously spend your life pressing a facepalm button is laughable... Go you...

I don't think Deebs would give a flying fuck, he might laugh...

You were rehashing the old bullshit line of "without Scotland, Labour are fucked" which is incorrect and was already had out further up the discussion. You waded in on this thread with a bitter tone, and I called you out on it. Now you're acting like a fucking child.

Who am I to tell you? I'm fucking telling you, because I can and I will. Who put me in charge? My feelings. Wow. Such hurt.

I have no authority here, there's an open and reasonably subjective discussion going on here and there are some interesting nuggets of discussion. I welcome what people south of the border have to say on the matter and I would like to dispel the myth that not all of the Scots are like "ITS OOR OIL, FREEEEEDOM". Yet, you've managed to completely derail that. So well done fucknugget.

 

[Scouse]

@MYstIC G, @Big G - is this hissy fit from the both of you because you want to claim ownership of the "G" ?

 

[old.user4556]

Bored of all this devolution speak.

Let's bring England into this, because face it, if it comes to that, we're involved too.

If Scotland doesn't get independence, we should get a vote if Scotland should get further devolution.

There's a lot of chat on Twitter that a currency union would go to a referendum in England (not sure how accurate that is) and you can bet your bollocks to a barn dance they'd reject it.

 

[MYstIC G]

I don't think Deebs would give a flying fuck, he might laugh...

You were rehashing the old bullshit line of "without Scotland, Labour are fucked" which is incorrect and was already had out further up the discussion. You waded in on this thread with a bitter tone, and I called you out on it. Now you're acting like a fucking child.

Who am I to tell you? I'm fucking telling you, because I can and I will. Who put me in charge? My feelings. Wow. Such hurt.

I have no authority here, there's an open and reasonably subjective discussion going on here and there are some interesting nuggets of discussion. I welcome what people south of the border have to say on the matter and I would like to dispel the myth that not all of the Scots are like "ITS OOR OIL, FREEEEEDOM". Yet, you've managed to completely derail that. So well done fucknugget.

Said the man who tells others what they're saying... Welcome to the You & Toht club.

 

[Ormorof]

Wat? We get 40% of our energy from renewables already, with the target of 100% by 2020.

It's fucking windy in Scotland, and the tides / waves are enormous off the west coast. The Pentland Firth is underway to harness the massive tides, from memory it'll generate power for ~45,000 homes by 2020.

True but Norway is 96% renewable already (according to official statistics), they have a populace accustomed to high taxes (in exchange for large welfare state and high prices / wages admittedly) and rather than burning any of their oil and gas they sell it to everyone else

Add to this their seeming ingrained cultural environmentalism (as an example they have had a market for electric cars for over 20 years which is why the Renault, Nissan and BMW electrics have gone nuts there)

I am rooting for Scotland but trying to put it in a Norway like situation just doesn't seem realistic and would probably be disastrous, treading own path where the people of Scotland will be happier and successful

If Scottish independence is a success I can see a lot of people heading north especially if they manage to negotiate a nice deal with EU as there is a lot of very disillusioned people in UK from my experience there

 

[Gwadien]

There's a lot of chat on Twitter that a currency union would go to a referendum in England (not sure how accurate that is) and you can bet your bollocks to a barn dance they'd reject it.

Yeah, why would we accept it? Why would we voluntarily put ourselves at the mercy of a country we have no control over? That's stupid (see Ireland, Greece & Spain)

Same for Devolution - You want to stay in the UK because of it's historic significance, and that fact that we treat you pretty fucking well (Compared to the North of England anyway.)

We shouldn't be bribing you for more fucking reasons to stay.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah, why would we accept it?

Why not? The only people who'll be affected in a truly meaningful way, in or out, will be the rich.

 

[old.user4556]

Said the man who tells others what they're saying... Welcome to the You & Toht club.

I think you'll find it's the "Mystic G and Toht" club, because you're both now exclusively in my ignore list.

Edit: seems you can't be ignored, I'll just be forced to listen to your bitch fits.

 

[Gwadien]

Why not? The only people who'll be affected in a truly meaningful way, in or out, will be the rich.

Because as I say, Scotland could do really really stupidly risky stuff, and then we'll have to be the ones to stop us going into another recession if they fuck it up.

Also, I can see Scotland getting all the positives out of this, and not their share of the negatives, the debt for instance.

What's been said in terms of Defence, I doubt the 'UK' government would let 'Scottish' troops freely leave to join the Scottish army?

 

[old.user4556]

Also, I can see Scotland getting all the positives out of this, and not their share of the negatives, the debt for instance.

The proposal is that if there's a currency union, then iScot will take it's fair share of the national debt. If they don't get a currency union, they'll walk away and leave rUK with it all. The latter is a very scary prospect for those of us stuck in iScot - I don't see how anyone would every want to lend to a country that walks away from debt like that, it's a very risky approach to the negotiation.

 

[MYstIC G]

Because as I say, Scotland could do really really stupidly risky stuff, and then we'll have to be the ones to stop us going into another recession if they fuck it up.

Also, I can see Scotland getting all the positives out of this, and not their share of the negatives, the debt for instance.

What's been said in terms of Defence, I doubt the 'UK' government would let 'Scottish' troops freely leave to join the Scottish army?

I would imagine the logic would be that they serve the UK army which still exists so it would be for them to leave and join any new Scottish army that might be started.

 

[Gwadien]

The proposal is that if there's a currency union, then iScot will take it's fair share of the national debt. If they don't get a currency union, they'll walk away and leave rUK with it all. The latter is a very scary prospect for those of us stuck in iScot - I don't see how anyone would every want to lend to a country that walks away from debt like that, it's a very risky approach to the negotiation.

That's silly.. We're not getting everything we wanted, so we're gonna have a hissy fit and not share the debt? - That's ridiculous.

I can really see the 'negotiations' consisting of 'Here's what we want, and here's what you want, we're going anyway, so just accept it, or it's gonna get worse.'

 

[old.user4556]

True but Norway is 96% renewable already (according to official statistics), they have a populace accustomed to high taxes (in exchange for large welfare state and high prices / wages admittedly) and rather than burning any of their oil and gas they sell it to everyone else

Add to this their seeming ingrained cultural environmentalism (as an example they have had a market for electric cars for over 20 years which is why the Renault, Nissan and BMW electrics have gone nuts there)

I am rooting for Scotland but trying to put it in a Norway like situation just doesn't seem realistic and would probably be disastrous, treading own path where the people of Scotland will be happier and successful

If Scottish independence is a success I can see a lot of people heading north especially if they manage to negotiate a nice deal with EU as there is a lot of very disillusioned people in UK from my experience there

Yes you're right, there's been too many comparisons with Norway in the Scottish referendum without the appreciation that Norway has more expensive standards of living / taxation etc.

One comment about oil that I will say - there's a general negativity from Better Together that oil is in decline and will eventually run out. Whilst I agree with them, there's still an estimated 35 years maximum (Sir Ian Wood's words, I would trust him more than anyone) - why Better Together are selling that as a terrible burden is beyond me! Most countries would sell their grannies to have up to 35 years of oil to tap (based on known fields). If it's invested wisely and properly, it could setup a decent enough oil fund.

 

[old.user4556]

That's silly.. We're not getting everything we wanted, so we're gonna have a hissy fit and not share the debt? - That's ridiculous.

Welcome to the SNP my friend!

 

[old.user4556]

*slams fists* I want more @DaGaffer in this thread.

 

[old.user4556]

Here's a perfect example of SNP denial. The FTSE and currency slide is due to Obama?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQvJac_NAKI

 

[Gwadien]

The Fuck.

This is another argument I made.

It's all well and good the SNP getting fed money by the 'UK' Government, but it's a whole different kettle of fish to manage that money when you're the ones generating it.

 

[Embattle]

Tis'll sorta relative though, their minimum wage is like £16 or something.

Yes providing there isn't some where much cheaper nearby...like England.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes providing there isn't some where much cheaper nearby...like England.

Nah, as someone said before, I really think a Scottish independence would make the rest of us look for an alternative much like the Scandinavian models, granted Scotland does it correctly.

 

[old.user4556]

A light hearted view from Mr Brooker .

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ependence-david-cameron-no-campaign-windows-8

 

[Scouse]

the debt

You mean the manufactured pyramid selling scheme that is our imaginary monetary system?

 

[Gwadien]

You mean the manufactured pyramid selling scheme that is our imaginary monetary system?

Yes the manufactured pyramid selling scheme that is our imaginary monetary system that has an effect on peoples lives.


Yes.

 

[Scouse]

Yes.

Independence would allow them to regulate the terms of that system more effectively, rather than remain beholden to westminster's say-so, don't you think?

 

[Raven]

Not if they get the pound...it will be controlled in a foreign country.

 

[DaGaffer]

Why not? The only people who'll be affected in a truly meaningful way, in or out, will be the rich.

Because "fuck you Scotland". You honestly think that wouldn't be the default English response? The absolutely valid economic reasons for saying no wouldn't even come in to it. Its going to be an ugly divorce.