Ps3

[FuzzyLogic]

That's true, but the competition this time around is, in my opinion as a simple luddite, far stronger than for the PS1 and the PS2. The PS3 will sell bucketloads, no doubt about that, and it will take longer to get up to speed with some things, but it's that getting up to speed that's going to harm Sony in this generation.

Although all this has probably been said previously, so anyway, how about them Nicks?

 

[soze]

That's true, but the competition this time around is, in my opinion as a simple luddite, far stronger than for the PS1 and the PS2. The PS3 will sell bucketloads, no doubt about that, and it will take longer to get up to speed with some things, but it's that getting up to speed that's going to harm Sony in this generation.

I dont think so if you are used to the way PS2 did things you will accept it. I personally like the idea that the bit of kit im buying will get better and better.

Its like buying a pc do you go out and buy one that can play todays game or do you buy one that will be able to play 2moros games.

Im not sure but if a consol today is being used to 100% of its potential then that must limit how long it will last.

 

[Aada]

I dont think so if you are used to the way PS2 did things you will accept it. I personally like the idea that the bit of kit im buying will get better and better.

Its like buying a pc do you go out and buy one that can play todays game or do you buy one that will be able to play 2moros games.

Im not sure but if a consol today is being used to 100% of its potential then that must limit how long it will last.

I find it funny the way PS3 fanbois think the PS3 hardware is light years ahead of the 360.

Funny very funny.

 

[JBP|]

I dont think so if you are used to the way PS2 did things you will accept it. I personally like the idea that the bit of kit im buying will get better and better.

Its like buying a pc do you go out and buy one that can play todays game or do you buy one that will be able to play 2moros games.

Im not sure but if a consol today is being used to 100% of its potential then that must limit how long it will last.

Historically the life expectancy of a console is 3 years, I see no reason for this to change in this generation.

 

[soze]

I find it funny the way PS3 fanbois think the PS3 hardware is light years ahead of the 360.

Funny very funny.

Point out where i said that please i said i like the fact the ps3 will have the capacity to get better and better i did not mention the 360 so try again ms fanboi.

Historically the life expectancy of a console is 3 years, I see no reason for this to change in this generation.

I think the ps2 is 6 or 7 now

 

[cHodAX]

I find it funny the way PS3 fanbois think the PS3 hardware is light years ahead of the 360.

Funny very funny.

Brainwashed, they don't know any better than to believe the P.R. crap that Sony like to spin. A mate of mine scored a job at SCEE Liverpool a couple of months back, we talked over a couple of pints (lemonade for me crappy blood pressure ) on Friday night and he himself admitted that the P.R. are marketing people were making things alot harder for Sony with these outlandish claims. He also explained that the power of CELL had been overstated massively in general terms but in other terms the performance was mindblowing. He explained quite a bit technically on how CELL works and he was blown away by the power of it's media streaming which is where it really excels beyond anything else out there. He made the comment though that CELL has far more power than it will ever need on the video playback side of things as who needs multiscreen multistream 1080p playback anyway and the PS3 doesn't have the video hardware to display them anyway even though the CELL has the horsepower. He couldn't go into specifics but he did say that the PPC core on CELL was easy to code for but unless Sony could provide better tools then game developers were going to have a much harder time than expected coding for the CELL SPE's because the of nature of code SPE was designed to run and the lack of branch prediction further complicates matters.

He told me quite a few things about CELL that I wasn't aware of, most of it good I must add although he was alot less impressed with the Nvidia RSX GPU saying that it wasn't customised anywhere near enough for PS3 architecture as it should have been so the game coders were having to use some tricks and workarounds or certain functions which is less than ideal at a time when the development tools are still very immature. I asked him straight out in a head to head which CPU was better, he said it wasn't anywhere near straightforward to explain. He did say this though. Clock for clock the 360 is a better CPU at running generalised code which is more suited to game development, the CELL is a media streaming monster that runs game code pretty well right now. Time would tell is Sony can get more out of the SPE portion of CELL because right now most games are only using 2 SPE and that isn't really running gamecode but performing background tasks and doing decoding work. He said that once Sony get the developing tools in good order it will be alot easier to harness the power of the SPE's and the PS3 will really shine then but the lack of branch prediction in the SPE will always be more difficult to code around. He complimented Microsoft on alot of design aspects but he did feel the hard drive issue was a real achilles heel for them and it would cost them alot of sales and compromise game quality long term. Xbox Live was good but that Xbox Live arcade was not delivering half what Microsoft had promised there and I have to agree. Oh and that the on chip Edram on the 360 GPU wasn't half as useful as it should have been because they skimped on cost by only using 10mb instead of 16mb and it had hurt performance, if they had gone 16mb it would have been easier to code for and have it running at 100% instead of being a pain to squeeze into and losing quite a bit of performance by having to swap in and out of the Edram to get certain things enabled properly.

All in all it was a real good chat, I have a bit more respect for the PS3 hardware than I did before and perhaps a little less for the 360's hardware because of the Edram issue. It all boiled down though this though, he said that neither console was using more than 50% of the available power right now because there wasn't a single game that was using more than 2 cores on the 360 or the PPC and 2 SPE on the PS3. Graphically they were getting alot out of both GPU but there was more to come from both and that in 3 years time when developers have really got to grips with the mutli-core architecture of these consoles we would see some really breathtaking games on both systems that are far beyond what we have seen so far.

Oh and before he left he told me to buy a PS3 as soon as the price drops because Sony have some really great media centre related stuff coming out for PS3 over the next 12 months. He couldn't say anymore than that though because Sony didn't want to announce anything until later in the year.

 

[Wij]

So the point is that both consoles are similarly powerful but in slightly different ways ?

In that case the problem is that Sony was a year late to market, way too expensive and it's still hard to develop for. It's brand, licenses and blu-ray have a lot of work to do to stop it becoming a fuck-up

I'm no Sony hater. I loved my PSX and PS2 but I plan to buy a 360 before a PS3.

 

[cHodAX]

So the point is that both consoles are similarly powerful but in slightly different ways ?

In short yes. The PS3 is going to be a killer media centre box with great games, the Xbox 360 is going to be a great gaming box with a cracking online setup. Both of them well worth buying, just hold off on PS3 till the price is more reasonable and you won't be disappointed.

As always it comes down to the games though and with alot less exclusives this time round you really can't go wrong with either console, each is stronger than the other at certain things but that is the way consoles have always been.

Hmm, as for being a year late well perhaps but longterm it might not matter so much because developers are having a real hard time getting to grips with these new architectures anyway so you are not seeing either console at their best yet and won't for a few years to come.

Only time will tell which console will have more headroom when it comes to performance but everyone needs to consider this. The GPU in both consoles is what creates and renders the graphics, in pure horsepower terms they are very much equal so do not expect a massive gap in graphical quality or performance. Both GPU's will be the performance bottleneck in each console long before the CPU and that is a fact, graphics hardware becomes obsolete much faster and in some ways it is already happening with the advent of DX10 GPU's. So in the end the battle between Xenon and CELL will become irrelevant because they will not be able to give the GPU anything more than it can handle and with both GPU's being fairly equal you can expect the games to be fairly equal as well.

What will decide which was the better console is this. Time, first party games that push the console to the max and all the extras the each machine does like online gaming/shopping/services plus media centre functionality.

 

[soze]

I will say again I did not say anything about the 360 to compare the two. I just said I like the fact the PS3 could be like the PS2 and come out with better game year after year that make the games from the year befor look bad because they found more from the consol.

 

[cHodAX]

I will say again I did not say anything about the 360 to compare the two. I just said I like the fact the PS3 could be like the PS2 and come out with better game year after year that make the games from the year befor look bad because they found more from the consol.

That is a certainty for a good few years, same for the 360 as well. It will be the exclusives that really push the hardware though, too many third party games are going to be cross platform and something always gets sacraficed when you are developing for more than one machine.

 

[soze]

That is a certainty for a good few years, same for the 360 as well. It will be the exclusives that really push the hardware though, too many third party games are going to be cross platform and something always gets sacraficed when you are developing for more than one machine.

I agree imagine GoW2 showing up with graphics and detail that make number one look sloppy, you can only get that if the developers find even more power from the 360. I like putting GT3 in my ps2 then putting GT4 in and doing the same lap in the same car and looking at the differences.

 

[Aada]

It's just PS3 fanbois in general though if you go on a PS3 forum there will always be a thread about how much more powerful the PS3 is compared to the 360 when really there is not a lot of difference.

People think because the PS3 is a year behind everything else it is more powerful it's not, it's just Sonys shit marketing strategy that has brought it back this far.

 

[soze]

It's just PS3 fanbois in general though if you go on a PS3 forum there will always be a thread about how much more powerful the PS3 is compared to the 360 when really there is not a lot of difference.

People think because the PS3 is a year behind everything else it is more powerful it's not, it's just Sonys shit marketing strategy that has brought it back this far.

It is hard to deny that if they had made it use a standard DVD for games and had shipped them 18 months ago for £280 it would be more popular. The delay because of the Blu Ray drive dose seems stupid if you do not want one but its too late to worry about that now.

I do not care about us getting it later and the price difference dose not bother me at all as its the same on everything but i have to say if it was a option i would rather pay under £300 for one with no blu ray as i do not plan on upgrading all my dvds

 

[cHodAX]

It is hard to deny that if they had made it use a standard DVD for games and had shipped them 18 months ago for £280 it would be more popular. The delay because of the Blu Ray drive dose seems stupid if you do not want one but its too late to worry about that now.

I do not care about us getting it later and the price difference dose not bother me at all as its the same on everything but i have to say if it was a option i would rather pay under £300 for one with no blu ray as i do not plan on upgrading all my dvds

The most sensible post you have ever made, I would have a PS3 myself already if I wasn't being forced to stump up the cash for a Blu-Ray drive I don't want.

 

[Doomy]

Funny thing is that other than a few demos i have not played much on the ps3. The whole machine strikes me as a console geared towards people like me. As in near 30 odd who have grown up with gaming since its first really decent time (im talking super nes mega drive etc,), the kind of person that is getting less and less amazed by what the industry has to offer. It just seems so err adult and sophisticated from the overture start up sound to the absolutely gorgeous media player visuals. The browser too is damned decent.

i dont give a fuck as to which machine is best. Having all 3 is in my opinion a great idea. 360 for multiplayer on your own, and games that lack subtlety in my mind. There is no quirky 'new type' games that i crave and all the games seem too i dont know, generic. But the plus points are great. I personally dont really care for online gaming but it is a major selling point.

the wee is crazy cool and in my eye a splendid party console but i think its too under powered to provide those gaming moments that will blow your mind but the whole originality of it all is guaranteed to sell like the ds

which leaves the ps3. Opinion is still out on this but if sony can have games that are coming out on the ps2 now in 3 flavour i know which one ill be on most of the time. come on team ico need my next fix.

they are my opinions anyway. Hopefully my last consoles anyway as ill be old and decrepid and not give two hoots about whats best.

 

[soze]

The most sensible post you have ever made, I would have a PS3 myself already if I wasn't being forced to stump up the cash for a Blu-Ray drive I don't want.

I have always said that it might be sensible to have a normal version. But i also think that as its not a option i do not mind the £425 price considering what you get.

Have i ruined it now?

 

[cHodAX]

I have always said that it might be sensible to have a normal version. But i also think that as its not a option i do not mind the £425 price considering what you get.

Have i ruined it now?

No, each to thier own bud and I am not criticising anyone who buys a PS3 at the current price either. I personally won't touch it with a bargepole until the price drops though, it just doesn't offer me value for money because all I want it for is a games console and a media centre. I couldn't give two hoots about Blu-Ray playback if I am being honest.

 

[Aada]

No, each to thier own bud and I am not criticising anyone who buys a PS3 at the current price either. I personally won't touch it with a bargepole until the price drops though, it just doesn't offer me value for money because all I want it for is a games console and a media centre. I couldn't give two hoots about Blu-Ray playback if I am being honest.

Although i have 6 on order it will be very hard for me to resist keeping one, but i think i will just sell them because like you said the Blu-Ray just doesn't do it for me.

I want a machine for games and right now the PS3 line up is not good. I will have a PS3 for Metal Gear though thats if it doesn't end up on the 360 in which case no point

 

[ST^]

Ehm... people are aiming for 1080p on most PS3 games, whereas most 360 devs won't even consider going past 720p. How is the PS3 not more powerful?

Nice post from cHodAX, though I think the aim for the SPE's is that some will also do graphics processing (in fact, the original aim would be that SPE's do nearly all of it, but to help yields on the Cells, they disabled a bunch of SPE's and added the Nvidia GPU). When people start finding out how to use them to help with that, there's no doubt it will blow the 360 out the water.

Besides, graphics aren't that important - they can both make games look very nice. Just comes down to the games now

 

[soze]

Although i have 6 on order it will be very hard for me to resist keeping one, but i think i will just sell them because like you said the Blu-Ray just doesn't do it for me.

I want a machine for games and right now the PS3 line up is not good. I will have a PS3 for Metal Gear though thats if it doesn't end up on the 360 in which case no point

I think if you ordered six personally to sell on you could end up getting bit in the arse hard. If Sony have there way there will be 1mil plus consols in europe meaning people who buy on ebay for over the odds are mugs. If you run a game shop or something though nevermind

 

[cHodAX]

Ehm... people are aiming for 1080p on most PS3 games, whereas most 360 devs won't even consider going past 720p. How is the PS3 not more powerful?

That is no longer true bud, since the Fall (November) update 1080p is available and an awful lot of games coming this year offer native 1080p support. The first 1080p native games are shipping on 360 later this month. As far as pixel pushing power goes both GPU's are very very evenly matched, what will seperate them will be memory bandwidth and possibly the Edram on the 360 GPU.

 

[cHodAX]

Nice post from cHodAX, though I think the aim for the SPE's is that some will also do graphics processing (in fact, the original aim would be that SPE's do nearly all of it, but to help yields on the Cells, they disabled a bunch of SPE's and added the Nvidia GPU). When people start finding out how to use them to help with that, there's no doubt it will blow the 360 out the water.

Sadly due to the nature of the Nvidia GPU and the way it is implemented into the PS3 system architecture it is no longer possible for the SPE's to work on the frame buffer that the GPU generated while the GPU is still working on it. In the original PS3 design the SPE's were going to be the graphics workhorse but the amount of work required to get that up and running with the software development tools to match was massive. It would have meant a 2008 launch and that just wasn't viable so Sony decided to bring in a 3rd party GPU late in the day. As my friend pointed out, bringing in that GPU so late meant it wasn't highly customised or tailored to the PS3 and this is why certain problems have arisen such as very poor memory transfers under certain conditions and the firmware workaround to compensate for the lack of a dedicated hardware scaler chip.

It still works though and it looks great, better to do it this way and have the console out now than code for SPE driven graphics and be struggling for an Xmas 2007 launch. Plus Sony really weren't sure how well the SPE's were going to work out performing the kind of functions 3d graphics require, they took the safe option and it was sensible.

 

[soze]

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/123261 not bad for a LG Phillips tv full HD 47 for £1400

But on another note i think Sony may have done something right with reguards to the PS3 i was in a Sony store and they have a 0% years finance at the moment and the guy said the PS3 should be covered by it. £40 a month might get more buyers than £425. He also said hes trying to arange a deal where if you buy it with a hd tv you can get 2 years interest free Could be interesting if advertised

 

[Ch3tan]

Glad I held off buying a set last week now, it seems we are in for a load of 1080p sets hitting the market, and this atec one seems very reasonable -and it will let me play 1080p hd-dvds via my 360.

 

[soze]

Glad I held off buying a set last week now, it seems we are in for a load of 1080p sets hitting the market, and this atec one seems very reasonable -and it will let me play 1080p hd-dvds via my 360.

And as Stuff magazine leaked its really a phillips TV so not bad at all for the money

 

[soze]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/08032007/323/sony-unveils-virtual-universe-ps3.html

Foundations on PS3 Home you can't own a house on xbox live can you! ha :touch:

 

[cHodAX]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/08032007/323/sony-unveils-virtual-universe-ps3.html

Foundations on PS3 Home you can't own a house on xbox live can you! ha :touch:

I wouldn't want one, sounds utterly childish and gay

 

[soze]

I wouldn't want one, sounds utterly childish and gay

You are deffinately not invited to my PS3 home warming party where me and my cyber friend will watch movies!

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Wait, what movies?


and can your Sony mii (Smii?) watch HD_DVDS?


\o/

 

[Wij]

Wait, what movies?


and can your Sony mii (Smii?) watch HD_DVDS?


\o/

Important, because the porn industry supports the HD-DVD format.


Even gay porn !