PS3 has lost to Wii and Xbox360 (discuss)

[Wij]

My PS3 has never been quiet and sounds like a vacuum cleaner in summer. I'm with Meg.

 

[Aada]

None of the consoles are known for being "very quiet" so stop talking pish. Now if you were saying "in comparison to a 360" then you'd be correct. The new 360 is a worrying sign for Microsoft. In all honesty is says to me "next xbox not ready yet, come back in 2012/2013" especially with the parties that were heavily involved with the xbox project leaving microsoft campus.

With them bringing out Natal it shows they want the xbox around for a few more years yet. It doesn't have anything to do with the new Xbox.

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Switch off the power at the back of the ps3, hold the eject button then switch it back on, fans ahoy!

Apparently not recommended but meh, it's something to do

 

[MYstIC G]

With them bringing out Natal it shows they want the xbox around for a few more years yet. It doesn't have anything to do with the new Xbox.

Natal has nothing to do with my point. 360 was launched in the states on 22 November 2005. Knocking on 5 years old. Original was launched in the states on 15 November 2001. Life cycle says they should be coming up with something new but all we're hearing about is version re-hashes.

Bolt ons (this time so we can wave our arms around) always come and go.

 

[cHodAX]

Natal has nothing to do with my point. 360 was launched in the states on 22 November 2005. Knocking on 5 years old. Original was launched in the states on 15 November 2001. Life cycle says they should be coming up with something new but all we're hearing about is version re-hashes.

Bolt ons (this time so we can wave our arms around) always come and go.

There are some good reasons why this is going a long cycle, the recession is playing a big part of course but more importantly most developers have yet to see a return on the investments they have made retooling and retraining for this generation. Sony are still deep in the red with PS3, you won't see a PS4 until Sony have turned a fair profit. Microsoft are in the black now but don't want to piss off the developers with another architecture change nor do they want to upset customers who have just invested in thier first ever peice of Xbox kit.

Both Sony and Microsluts have done the right thing, extend the product life for an extra 2 years with new controllers and content to go with it. As much as you and I would love all new singing and dancing consoles with tons of memory etc it just wouldn't be a good investment for the industry at the moment.

 

[Raven]

In raw graphics power the industry is stifled. It hasn't moved on really in quite some time so there really is no need for new consoles, probably for a couple of years at least. Likewise with PC graphics cards, there is just no point buying a £300 jobbie because the games just don't push the architecture any more.

I would rather they stuck with the current consoles and start pushing the game playability more, its all rather boring at the moment (gaming in general)

 

[cHodAX]

To be fair the current gen GPU's in consoles are pretty adequate, the biggest problem is lack of memory for those GPU's to have access to. While neither Xenon or RSX can do 1080p with AA at high framerates and best quality texturing/pixel shading if you go back and look at the PC equivilants of those GPU's you can see those GPU's able to run Crysis at 720p with AA at decent framerates flawlessly. PC's from 2005 had access to more system and graphics memory though, that is why there doesn't seem to be much progress graphically on this generation of consoles. The GPU isn't tapped out so much as starved of fast memory, especially PS3 with it's 256mb/256mb configuration which I personally feel will hold the PS3 back greatly over the long term. Both CELL and RSX are starved with that memory config.

 

[MYstIC G]

As much as you and I would love all new singing and dancing consoles with tons of memory etc it just wouldn't be a good investment for the industry at the moment.

Agreed cHodAX. Just makes me wonder if Microsoft will make a play first (as they did in the current generation) to try and gain even more ground on Sony. It will be very interesting to see how the next round starts and indeed when it starts.

 

[cHodAX]

Agreed cHodAX. Just makes me wonder if Microsoft will make a play first (as they did in the current generation) to try and gain even more ground on Sony. It will be very interesting to see how the next round starts and indeed when it starts.

They will, I fully expect them to go again in 2.5 years time, 12 months ahead of Sony. The key to the next gen will be making sure they ship with Bluray, 4gb of memory and a GPU that offers full Pixel Shader 5.0 support at 1080p with x4 AA as default. If they can do that plus have all the bells like wireless networking, motion control and voice control then they will have a massive chance next time around. This generation will be a close run thing between Sony and MS (Wii isn't current gen, I don't give a shit what anyone says, infact it is barely qualifies as last gen when it comes to GPU). I fully expect to see each tap out at around 70 million consoles, that is a massive increase in marketshare for MS and should push them to invest more heavily next time hopefully taking a bigger risk when it comes to system memory.

Remember Mark Rein pushing MS to go with 1gb of memory for 360 at launch? If they had listened this generation would be over already and MS would have a tick in the win column. Let us hope that neither MS nor Sony make the same mistake a second time around, it is plain as day that system/video memory is holding both consoles back and it can not be allowed to happen again for the sake of $30. To do so would be extremely shortsighted.

 

[MYstIC G]

Indeed, especially given the costs of the current generation anyway.

 

[Aada]

Natal has nothing to do with my point. 360 was launched in the states on 22 November 2005. Knocking on 5 years old. Original was launched in the states on 15 November 2001. Life cycle says they should be coming up with something new but all we're hearing about is version re-hashes.

Bolt ons (this time so we can wave our arms around) always come and go.

This is what will happen all the time now it's just too expensive launching a new console MS in the last couple of years have only actually started making a profit from their console.

Why the re-hashes on consoles? A nice profit.

The Slimline 360 will see a surge in sales a huge surge tbh as people cannot resist upgrading and MS/Sony know this.

Then come October Natal will arrive and again you will see a nice surge in console sales once the fat people catch onto the fitness games coming out for it.

Not going to be a bad year for MS really is it?

 

[Aada]

They will, I fully expect them to go again in 2.5 years time, 12 months ahead of Sony. The key to the next gen will be making sure they ship with Bluray, 4gb of memory and a GPU that offers full Pixel Shader 5.0 support at 1080p with x4 AA as default. If they can do that plus have all the bells like wireless networking, motion control and voice control then they will have a massive chance next time around. This generation will be a close run thing between Sony and MS (Wii isn't current gen, I don't give a shit what anyone says, infact it is barely qualifies as last gen when it comes to GPU). I fully expect to see each tap out at around 70 million consoles, that is a massive increase in marketshare for MS and should push them to invest more heavily next time hopefully taking a bigger risk when it comes to system memory.

Remember Mark Rein pushing MS to go with 1gb of memory for 360 at launch? If they had listened this generation would be over already and MS would have a tick in the win column. Let us hope that neither MS nor Sony make the same mistake a second time around, it is plain as day that system/video memory is holding both consoles back and it can not be allowed to happen again for the sake of $30. To do so would be extremely shortsighted.

Nice post i agree totally, i remember the whole 1gb of memory debacle and tbh if it wasn't for Epic Games we wouldn't have 512mb in the machine either they specifically asked for 512mb in the machine for Gears of War if i remember and the 360 still struggles to load everything into the level before the load screen has finished heh.

 

[Aada]

I love the look of the new console shiney shiney! Gonna beg my partner to let me order one

 

[cHodAX]

Nice post i agree totally, i remember the whole 1gb of memory debacle and tbh if it wasn't for Epic Games we wouldn't have 512mb in the machine either they specifically asked for 512mb in the machine for Gears of War if i remember and the 360 still struggles to load everything into the level before the load screen has finished heh.

That whole story keeps changing and does my nut in, MS were going with 256mb and Epic begged for 512mb at a minimum. Sadly what is overlooked is that other developers and Epic were saying that 512mb could be tapped out very quickly based off how the PC games and graphics card market was developing. 1gb would help the console fly. One thing they all knew for sure, to do 1080p with AA, nice textures and loads of pixel shaders they needed the GPU to have a good amount of fast memory to work with. Sadly we ended up with 512mb and all it is really good for is 720p with AA, anything more and we just end up with stuff being upscaled to 1080p or native 1080p with low geometery levels and or lower pixel shading on more basic textures.

Both companies badly dropped the ball in this area, infact I consider it to be a bigger failing for MS than not shipping with a next generation optical media format. As a game machine you need lots of memory, as a media centre you need bluray. Microsoft didn't take either path, played it safe and probably cost themselves 20 million plus sales over the product lifespan.

 

[Aada]

Will be interesting to see they use bluray in their next console or just stick with Zune, i can't see them budging tbh.

 

[MYstIC G]

The Slimline 360 will see a surge in sales a huge surge tbh as people cannot resist upgrading and MS/Sony know this.

That's not being honest, it's highly unlikely.

Blueray wasn't the format war winner until after the launch of the 360 cHodAX. M$ took a punt on HD-DVD to see if it could put a bullet through the Sony hull. It didn't work but it did little to harm M$ as they could still introduce Blueray. If they had in this new re-hash I might personally have upgraded my 360.

 

[cHodAX]

Will be interesting to see they use bluray in their next console or just stick with Zune, i can't see them budging tbh.

They won't go online distribution, the bandwidth and hosting costs plus the amount of hard drive space needed for the next gen games will logically prohibit such a move. Bluray is the only logical choice for them next time around, holographic media is too far away on the horizon and costs will be silly. Triple layer Bluray will be able to handle more than anything the next generation can throw at it.

If they don't budge or come up with something totally new I don't see where they can go personally, online just isn't going to happen for another decade, 15-20gb games over an average UK broadband connection is more than most will be prepared to wait and then what about the ISP's? I bet they won't be happy when their networks get hammered for 20gb images on a massive scale. Nope, won't happen.

 

[Aada]

That's not being honest, it's highly unlikely.

Blueray wasn't the format war winner until after the launch of the 360 cHodAX. M$ took a punt on HD-DVD to see if it could put a bullet through the Sony hull. It didn't work but it did little to harm M$ as they could still introduce Blueray. If they had in this new re-hash I might personally have upgraded my 360.

No, it's being honest.

 

[Aada]

They won't go online distribution, the bandwidth and hosting costs plus the amount of hard drive space needed for the next gen games will logically prohibit such a move. Bluray is the only logical choice for them next time around, holographic media is too far away on the horizon and costs will be silly. Triple layer Bluray will be able to handle more than anything the next generation can throw at it.

If they don't budge or come up with something totally new I don't see where they can go personally, online just isn't going to happen for another decade, 15-20gb games over an average UK broadband connection is more than most will be prepared to wait and then what about the ISP's? I bet they won't be happy when their networks get hammered for 20gb images on a massive scale. Nope, won't happen.

It's going to be interesting that's for sure.

 

[ST^]

PSP Go was a good test for digital-only. Obviously nobody is going to do it with their new consoles.

 

[Raven]

Eventually I can see it happening but we have neither the bandwidth nor the storage capacity ready for it in console land. Though in saying that 90% of the games I buy on PC I buy on steam, 100+ titles. Though that's on a 1 terabyte drive.

 

[cHodAX]

Eventually I can see it happening but we have neither the bandwidth nor the storage capacity ready for it in console land. Though in saying that 90% of the games I buy on PC I buy on steam, 100+ titles. Though that's on a 1 terabyte drive.

That is the thing, PC gamers are pretty patient and *most games rattle in at around 6gb or so. Plus you can do other stuff on your PC when it is downloading. With next gen consoles you are looking at 20gb a game, that is gonna take a hell of a lot longer than you average punter would hope, especially on cobbled together internet setups like we have in the U.K.

I don't see your average console user being prepared to wait 8+ hours for a game to download to be honest, not when they can pop down the shop and buy the same game on another system in a box for the same price.

 

[Ch3tan]

Not sure where you get the 20gb figure from Cho, if anything PC games are bigger because they have the textures for higher resolutions. What's the storage on a BD disc? 18gb's? I'd imagine not all of that is used yet, and that with compression you'd could squeeze it down. 360 still uses DVD's remember.

 

[Billargh]

Are the Slimline Ps3's quiet? I'm tempted to order a Slimline 360 on Friday, but if the Slim ps3's are just a silent I'll get one of them instead.

 

[Ch3tan]

Yes, both the old and new ps3's are quieter than most set-top Tv boxes. If you get a noisy one, then it has a fault.

A 30% reduction in volume for the new xbox's still makes it bloody loud.

 

[cHodAX]

Not sure where you get the 20gb figure from Cho, if anything PC games are bigger because they have the textures for higher resolutions. What's the storage on a BD disc? 18gb's? I'd imagine not all of that is used yet, and that with compression you'd could squeeze it down. 360 still uses DVD's remember.

I am talking about the 'next' generation of console games not the current generation. As for Bluray, 25gb per layer, so technically 75gb is possible in the future iirc. One thing is for sure, DVD will not cut it at all next time around. MS either need to man up and go Bluray or find another format because digital distribution on the scale required is not the way forward for at least another decade.

 

[cHodAX]

A 30% reduction in volume for the new xbox's still makes it bloody loud.

Nonsense, you clearly don't understand how the decibel scale works. It isn't a linear scale, 26db is whisper quiet and 44db can sound like a hoover in a contained area.

 

[Aada]

Yes, both the old and new ps3's are quieter than most set-top Tv boxes. If you get a noisy one, then it has a fault.

A 30% reduction in volume for the new xbox's still makes it bloody loud.

Is that with your games installed to the hard drive? Sure its loud when you don't install but installed its not loud at all.

Anyway I've preordered one my birthday soon so that's my present lol

 

[Ch3tan]

I am talking about the 'next' generation of console games not the current generation. As for Bluray, 25gb per layer, so technically 75gb is possible in the future iirc. One thing is for sure, DVD will not cut it at all next time around. MS either need to man up and go Bluray or find another format because digital distribution on the scale required is not the way forward for at least another decade.

From Wiki:

Blu-ray Disc (official acronym BD or BRD, colloquially also known as BR or Blu-ray) is an optical disc storage medium designed to supersede the standard DVD format. Its main uses are for storing high-definition video, PlayStation 3 video games, and other data, with up to 25 GB per single-layered, and 50 GB per dual-layered disc. Although these numbers represent the standard storage for Blu-ray Disc drives, the specification is open-ended, with the upper theoretical storage limit left unclear. 200 GB discs are available, and 100 GB discs are readable without extra equipment or modified firmware.[citation needed] The discs have the same physical dimensions as standard DVDs and CDs.

As for the Xbox noise levels, I will believe it when I hear it. The xbox (I have an Elite) is still noticeable, whereas the ps3 is not. If it was as quiet as the ps3 I would be impressed, and actually consider a trade in for that fact alone. The 30% figures were not quoted from MS remember, and we don't know what noise level they are taking 30% off.

 

[soze]

There are some good reasons why this is going a long cycle, the recession is playing a big part of course but more importantly most developers have yet to see a return on the investments they have made retooling and retraining for this generation. Sony are still deep in the red with PS3, you won't see a PS4 until Sony have turned a fair profit. Microsoft are in the black now but don't want to piss off the developers with another architecture change nor do they want to upset customers who have just invested in thier first ever peice of Xbox kit.

Both Sony and Microsluts have done the right thing, extend the product life for an extra 2 years with new controllers and content to go with it. As much as you and I would love all new singing and dancing consoles with tons of memory etc it just wouldn't be a good investment for the industry at the moment.

I do not think you will ever see a PS4. Sony pushed the envelope hardware wise and got bit in the arse for it. The winners in the current gen are low tech low budget which is not Sony.

On the noise thing my first ps3 slim was much louder than my xbox. But Sony swapped it out for me which was nice. The current one is about the same as my xbox.