Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Gwadien]

Can who admit they're wrong? What the fuck are you talking about? The "remain camp", whatever the fuck that is, wasn't wrong about federalising Europe, or taxes or even armies, most people who support the EU see all of those things as a natural outcome of "ever closer union". You act like it was all some big secret trap to ensnare the good olde English stout yeoman into some dirty foreign plot. Jesus Christ get your head out of your 1930s arse; the EU are not Nazis and we're not standing alone against the foe. Grow up.

NB. An EU army was a low agenda item as little as two years ago (not a non-issue, but little more than an aspiration and a few experiments); Brexit and Trump and Russian shenanigans made the necessity of one more urgent. If NATO is no longer reliable (the Trump factor) then needs must.

But all organisations mentioned are ran by Jews, including Jesus Christ.

 

[caLLous]

 

[Job]

Can who admit they're wrong? What the fuck are you talking about? The "remain camp", whatever the fuck that is, wasn't wrong about federalising Europe, or taxes or even armies, most people who support the EU see all of those things as a natural outcome of "ever closer union". You act like it was all some big secret trap to ensnare the good olde English stout yeoman into some dirty foreign plot. Jesus Christ get your head out of your 1930s arse; the EU are not Nazis and we're not standing alone against the foe. Grow up.

NB. An EU army was a low agenda item as little as two years ago (not a non-issue, but little more than an aspiration and a few experiments); Brexit and Trump and Russian shenanigans made the necessity of one more urgent. If NATO is no longer reliable (the Trump factor) then needs must.

Your replies are getting more Trump like everyday.

The remainers said this

No they didnt.

Yes they did, heres the evidence.

Yeah so what if they did.

 

[caLLous]

 

[DaGaffer]

Your replies are getting more Trump like everyday.

The remainers said this

No they didnt.

Yes they did, heres the evidence.

Yeah so what if they did.

Yeah...no. Where's my "no they didn't" moment, and more importantly, where's you're "here's the evidence" moment, and no quoting the Daily Express doesn't count. And just to be clear, I don't speak for "remainers", since just like leavers, there's no single view of what leave or remain is; the only difference being remain in any form doesn't fuck the entire country.

 

[Job]

I dont think you have to look far to find remoaners ridiculing brexiters for saying the EU wanted an army.
To make it worse..they knew they did, they just wanted to paint them as hysterical.


View: https://youtu.be/4Ruu-4f6ugA

 

[DaGaffer]

I dont think you have to look far to find remoaners ridiculing brexiters for saying the EU wanted an army.
To make it worse..they knew they did, they just wanted to paint them as hysterical.


View: https://youtu.be/4Ruu-4f6ugA

Once again, for the slow of thinking, that was three-four years ago? At the time an EU military was barely an aspiration. In 2018 we're living in a very different world. As it happens, even then I would have said, "so what"? Because I'm not Nick Clegg with a base to mollify.

And here's the real question, what exactly is your problem with an EU army anyway?

 

[Bodhi]

An EU army does nothing not already covered by NATO

 

[DaGaffer]

An EU army does nothing not already covered by NATO

NATO is informed by American interests which are self-evidently diverging from Europe's. And with a US president in the pocket of the Russians, the time may come when Europe needs to operate independently so its prudent to consider it. The US has pivoted towards Asia anyway. Its one of things that so galling about Trump's calls for European NATO to spend more money; the US isn't spending 2% of GDP on NATO either.

 

[Gwadien]

Also, whilst Russia doesn't spend nearly as much as America, their capabilities are amazing, hacking Western websites was their equivalent of the Spanish Civil War.

They also have the best weaponry in the world, America just has en mass, en mass which will fail when there's 0 communication.

 

[Bodhi]

NATO is informed by American interests which are self-evidently diverging from Europe's. And with a US president in the pocket of the Russians, the time may come when Europe needs to operate independently so its prudent to consider it. The US has pivoted towards Asia anyway. Its one of things that so galling about Trump's calls for European NATO to spend more money; the US isn't spending 2% of GDP on NATO either.

So basically, your justification for an EU army is "Orange Man Bad" ?

Riiiight OK. Sounds a perfect justification for giving some unaccountable bureaucrats with a history of getting involved in conflicts and fucking it up control of an Army.

I mean what could possibly go wrong? Ignoring the fact that Juncker in generally so sozzled he can't even put matching shoes on.

Fuck. That.

 

[DaGaffer]

So basically, your justification for an EU army is "Orange Man Bad" ?

Riiiight OK. Sounds a perfect justification for giving some unaccountable bureaucrats with a history of getting involved in conflicts and fucking it up control of an Army.

I mean what could possibly go wrong? Ignoring the fact that Juncker in generally so sozzled he can't even put matching shoes on.

Fuck. That.

No, my justification is "a changing world".

Secondly, you can keep playing the "unaccountable bureaucrats" line all you like but when was the last time you were invited to vote on a military intervention? Thought not.

What could possibly go wrong? We get dragged into an illegal war? Oh wait, scratch that one. We follow the Americans into every ill-conceived bit of idiocy at the behest of oil intere....ooh, no, maybe not that one. We carry out airstrikes on weddings? Bugger. Oh, oh I know, we buy the most expensive, least capable version of the most expensive aircraft in history to help the Americans make their numbers stack up? Nah, we'd never do that because our politicians aren't bent idiots at all, they're frikkin' geniuses.

 

[Bodhi]

So because other politicians have made mistakes with forces at their command you think its a good idea to give more politicians more forces to play with - politicians who have already caused enormous clusterfucks in Ukraine and the former Yugoslavia, and one of whom can't put his fucking shoes on properly.

Yeah awesome idea.

 

[Job]

Once again, for the slow of thinking, that was three-four years ago? At the time an EU military was barely an aspiration. In 2018 we're living in a very different world. As it happens, even then I would have said, "so what"? Because I'm not Nick Clegg with a base to mollify.

And here's the real question, what exactly is your problem with an EU army anyway?

Its all rather mute , because it will NEVER happen.
The chances of the EU putting together an army that would be of any use outside of the parade are practically zero.
Just imagine trying to send it anywhere..the frickin issue would be over before they had their third summit on military action..chaired by Romania and 22 objections.

Germany would have to conquer the continent first...its getting there slowly.
Then the new EU army could all be called stormtroopers.

 

[Wij]

So because other politicians have made mistakes with forces at their command you think its a good idea to give more politicians more forces to play with - politicians who have already caused enormous clusterfucks in Ukraine and the former Yugoslavia, and one of whom can't put his fucking shoes on properly.

Yeah awesome idea.

Um. Ukraine? Russia is invading it.

 

[Job]

Corbyns flipped again..now a 2nd referendum is an option.

This has to be the worst labour party in history..they are floundering against a room of clowns.

 

[Wij]

Corbyns flipped again..now a 2nd referendum is an option.

This has to be the worst labour party in history..they are floundering against a room of clowns.

Wij in mainly agreeing with Job shocker!

 

[Wij]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtkP3Hkc1cM

 

[Wij]

The trade deals argument is such bollocks


View: https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1064315567245537280

 

[Bodhi]

Um. Ukraine? Russia is invading it.

Yes. Russia just randomly invaded the Ukraine, it wasn't anything to do with the overtures from Brussels at all now was it?

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-eu-broke-ukraine-with-help-from-russia/

So two wars at least in part caused by a complete breakdown in diplomacy from the EU - and giving them an Army is a good idea?

And of course, if they do get one, it won't be used in any way against member states who won't toe the line - regime change in Hungary anyone?

 

[Gwadien]

Yes. Russia just randomly invaded the Ukraine, it wasn't anything to do with the overtures from Brussels at all now was it?

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-eu-broke-ukraine-with-help-from-russia/

So two wars at least in part caused by a complete breakdown in diplomacy from the EU - and giving them an Army is a good idea?

And of course, if they do get one, it won't be used in any way against member states who won't toe the line - regime change in Hungary anyone?

I'd say it was more because Russia wanted the Crimea for obvious reasons.

 

[Scouse]

Corbyns flipped again..now a 2nd referendum is an option.

This has to be the worst labour party in history..they are floundering against a room of clowns.

Link?

All I can see on news sites are variations of this. Which isn't what you're saying.

Plus - I've wasted five minutes of my life hunting around for evidence of stuff you've said. If you continue to insist on posting without links I think you may be the first person I put on ignore. I haven't got enough life to burn up interacting with someone who clearly doesn't give enough of a fuck about his fellow forumites to provide links, despite lots of people asking you to.

 

[Job]

Well saying its an option for the future, considering its something that needs to happen pretty quickly is a major change from ..its not an option.

He's kicked into into the long grass...I mean, ffs, what non committal bolaks.

 

[Gwadien]

Wij in mainly agreeing with Job shocker!

Would you vote Labour to stop a no deal though?

 

[Scouse]

Twat @Job. He clearly wants to deliver brexit, on their terms...

 

[Yoni]

Wow what a thread.... I am just over the moon that I am still part of the EU, so much so I will probably only keep a British passport to skip queues when entering the UK. I do not feel any level of association towards the UK and certainly it is not somewhere that I consider to be home.

I come from a very conservstive background.... so conservative in fact that my mum canvassed for Hesaltine on numerous occasions and at the thought of a labour government we moved to the Isle of Man. When I saw her this April, I truly expected a debate over Europe... there was none, in fact quite the opposite..... I was quite shocked. I asked the old dear why... her reply was that being on the outside looking in had given her new perspective on the subject and that the whole (a united Europe) was greater than the sum of it’s parts.... never ever thought that Mum and I would ever agree on this but miracles do happen. I truly believe that leaving Europe is a mistake not just due to the short term (10-20 years) disruption but for the years after that. I have enjoyed the freedom of movement that has allowed me to live and work away from the UK. Future generations will not find it so easy....

 

[Embattle]

JC can flip in an interview if it is longer than an hour, or someone in his Shadow Cabinet will come out the next day and say something completely opposite and what is even more tragic is they really want a GE but even now I'm still not convinced JC and his troupe would win.

 

[Wij]

Yes. Russia just randomly invaded the Ukraine, it wasn't anything to do with the overtures from Brussels at all now was it?

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-eu-broke-ukraine-with-help-from-russia/

Ah yes. A country in Europe discussing closer relationship with Europe's main trading bloc. What sensible neighbour wouldn't invade based on that disgraceful provocation?

They should know. They are only allowed the freedom that Moscow deigns to allow them.

 

[Scouse]

Dunno why you find that funny @Embattle. Corbyn wants to enact policies that would be illegal under current EU rules - so Corbyn has to be a leaver...

 

[Job]

The failing here is classic..every generation thinks nothing bad can happen because 2018..or..1939..or 1915..or 1065.

Young people have only known peace..but the UKs relationship with the continent is tenuous at best...we only get on with the Dutch and the Scandanavians , they figure very little in our news..in fact outside of holiday programs, euronews is entirely..wtf are they up to now, even from remainers.
We have four germans we like..ill ignore the royals...that chick off top gear..boris becker, the F1 driver in a coma and that comedien with a funny face.
The rest of them are kept at a good distance.