Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[dysfunction]

Which is what I said

Yet Luxembourg operates as some sort of tax haven, within the EU and has an unfair advantage over other EU countries.

They know that if there is no deal then we can just compete with Luxembourg.

By being a tax haven for foreign companies? How does that resolve issues with trading UK products and services with the EU?

 

[Raven]

It doesn't but then the EU isn't as big as people would like to think it is, there is an entire world out there, much of it growing economically.

I'm just saying that there are a huge amount of benefits of being out of the EU.

Plus ofc, it wont be long until we can start selling green energy to the EU to stop it's reliance on Russian gas, on our terms if they want to try and bully us.

 

[dysfunction]

It doesn't but then the EU isn't as big as people would like to think it is, there is an entire world out there, much of it growing economically.

I'm just saying that there are a huge amount of benefits of being out of the EU.

Plus ofc, it wont be long until we can start selling green energy to the EU to stop it's reliance on Russian gas, on our terms if they want to try and bully us.

lol. So they are protecting their trading level playing field.

The EU is one of (if not the largest) economies in the world right on our doorstep and you want to ignore it?
That's just insane. It's like saying we don't need to trade with China or the US.

I'm sure the EU can invest in green energy without having to rely on us.

 

[Raven]

Not ignore it, no, trade with it on mutually beneficial terms. Why does everything have to be such an extreme?

Green energy is going to be absolutely massive in the near future, if the EU want access to what the UK can produce, which will be, by virtue of geography, vastly superior to any other European country then they need to come to an agreement. If not they can continue to rely on gas, which will be as popular as a daily rectal inspection for many people.

 

[dysfunction]

Not ignore it, no, trade with it on mutually beneficial terms. Why does everything have to be such an extreme?
Green energy is going to be absolutely massive in the near future, if the EU want access to what the UK can produce, which will be, by virtue of geography, vastly superior to any other European country then they need to come to an agreement. If not they can continue to rely on gas, which will be as popular as a daily rectal inspection for many people.

This is becoming a circular argument...next you be saying yes but look at Luxembourg.
In order to have that mutually beneficial trading then we will have to trade on the same terms as other EU countries which makes it pointless to have left the EU in the first place.

Why will green energy production be superior to EU green energy production? We have some kind of secret?

File:Share of energy from renewable sources 2019 infograph.jpg - Statistics Explained

ec.europa.eu

 

[Raven]

It's kind of like Scotland's argument about North Sea oil...except the wind isn't going to run out and doesn't ruin the planet.

 

[Scouse]

In order to have that mutually beneficial trading then we will have to trade on the same terms as other EU countries which makes it pointless to have left the EU in the first place.

Any trade will be beneficial. It's likely to be less profitable on WHO terms, but still mutually beneficial.

We'll be turning into Singapore On Thames most likely.

 

[Raven]

This is becoming a circular argument...next you be saying yes but look at Luxembourg.
In order to have that mutually beneficial trading then we will have to trade on the same terms as other EU countries which makes it pointless to have left the EU in the first place.

Why will green energy production be superior to EU green energy production?

But we have left, so there is no point complaining about it. We can't change that so we must look to the future and it's not as dark or extreme as people would have us believe. The world is about to go through one of the biggest revolutions since the industrial and we are well placed to take advantage of that.

 

[dysfunction]

But we have left, so there is no point complaining about it. We can't change that so we must look to the future and it's not as dark or extreme as people would have us believe. The world is about to go through one of the biggest revolutions since the industrial and we are well placed to take advantage of that.

Any trade will be beneficial. It's likely to be less profitable on WHO terms, but still mutually beneficial.

We'll be turning into Singapore On Thames most likely.

If we are on WTO terms the EU may go elsewhere or start sourcing locally as most likely things will be too expensive.
And we will be buying things more expensive so people will be paying more.

Do you like paying more for things unnecessarily?

Yes there may well be opportunities but which trading block will most likely have the greater advantage? UK, Europe, US, China?

 

[Scouse]

Do you like paying more for things unnecessarily?

It's done now. No point crying over spilt milk.

I'm bored of the to and fro - I would very much like to see what the new reality looks like.

 

[dysfunction]

It's done now. No point crying over spilt milk.

I'm bored of the to and fro - I would very much like to see what the new reality looks like.

Indeed

 

[Embattle]

If we are on WHO terms the EU may go elsewhere or start sourcing locally as most likely things will be too expensive.
And we will be buying things more expensive so people will be paying more.

Do you like paying more for things unnecessarily?

Yes there may well be opportunities but which trading block will most likely have the greater advantage? UK, Europe, US, China?

WTO would probably be better than WHO terms


We will also pay less for some stuff as well.

Yes this is an endless circular argument, just as ignoring what the main 3 issues are with what appears to be on the table from the EU.

 

[Scouse]

WTO would probably be better than WHO terms

Lol aye.

What you're used to automatically typing eh?

 

[Raven]

If we are on WTO terms the EU may go elsewhere or start sourcing locally as most likely things will be too expensive.
And we will be buying things more expensive so people will be paying more.

Do you like paying more for things unnecessarily?

Yes there may well be opportunities but which trading block will most likely have the greater advantage? UK, Europe, US, China?

You can't source offshore wind elsewhere if you have A, no wind and B, no offshore.

We will be producing so much clean energy we will be able to use the excess to create hydrogen so not only will we be selling them domestic electricity but also hydrogen for their industrial needs. All in a market we control, if they wish.

There are reasons why they just haven't told us to bugger off

 

[Ormorof]

Using bionic duckweed no doubt

 

[Raven]

That argument has already been proven to be straight up incorrect unfortunately, tech has a habit of moving on, especially when there is a need.

 

[Ormorof]

I dont doubt it, i just doubt the current UK gov would be able to organise something like that, they seem to be struggling to fight their way out of a wet paper bag at the moment. They'll be so busy stuffing their pockets nothing useful will get done

 

[Embattle]

I dont doubt it, i just doubt the current UK gov would be able to organise something like that, they seem to be struggling to fight their way out of a wet paper bag at the moment. They'll be so busy stuffing their pockets nothing useful will get done

Indeed but then they aren't alone in that.

 

[Ormorof]

Indeed but then they aren't alone in that.

True, not having a credible opposition seems to be almost as damaging as having an incompetent government in a 2 party system

 

[Embattle]

I wouldn't even just leave it as our government alone.

 

[DaGaffer]

You can't source offshore wind elsewhere if you have A, no wind and B, no offshore.

We will be producing so much clean energy we will be able to use the excess to create hydrogen so not only will we be selling them domestic electricity but also hydrogen for their industrial needs. All in a market we control, if they wish.

There are reasons why they just haven't told us to bugger off

What on Earth makes you think the EU lacks wind and shorelines? Or indeed renewable production capacity? The UK currently ranks sixth in renewables across EU+UK, and that doesn't incude Norway or Iceland who have vast renewable resources. I'm sure UK energy will be nice to have, but not sure why it would be a game changer.

 

[Raven]

The coastline/landmass ratio and requirement numbers are vastly different.

 

[Embattle]

I'm not sure this is something that matters in this agreement/disagreement.

 

[DaGaffer]

The coastline/landmass ratio and requirement numbers are vastly different.

I have no idea what that means or why it matters.

 

[dysfunction]

The coastline/landmass ratio and requirement numbers are vastly different.

Last time I checked France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Norway, Sweden, Finland all have a coastline.

 

[Raven]

I have no idea what that means or why it matters.

One would assume its fairly simple mathematics? No?

Volume of land (and roughly population/energy requirements) vs length of coastline. Add into the equation coastline that is actually viable for wind farming on any serious scale.

List of countries by length of coastline - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Raven]

Last time I checked France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Norway, Sweden, Finland all have a coastline.

Ah, Poland with their truly impressive 1000km of coastline and portugal rocking in at 1700km or Norway who *checks notes* isn't in the EU...

Spain/France, sure, but it doesn't come close to the regular consistency or power of ours, the land mass known as the United Kingdom kind of gets in the way and the weather isn't right for wind farming.

Finland/Sweden? Have you actually checked a map lately? Their coastline is...kind of protected by land, it's essentially an internal sea (known as the Baltic) at the end of the day, whereas we have the Atlantic and the North Sea...?

 

[DaGaffer]

One would assume its fairly simple mathematics? No?

Volume of land (and roughly population/energy requirements) vs length of coastline. Add into the equation coastline that is actually viable for wind farming on any serious scale.

List of countries by length of coastline - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, and that's why
A. I don't understand why you think the UK has more coastline available than the EU, especially the other countries in the North Sea (and Ireland). And;

B. Why UK offshore wind would be so important to energy trade relative to the overall Eurooean renewables market. Its certainly very handy for the UK, with limited spare land, a hostile planning regime and all-round nimbyism .Evans it suits UK policy; but it doesn't give the UK some kind of inherent competitive advantage; if I'm an energy buyer in Germany, whats better about UK offshore wind over German onshore wind or Swedish hydro?

 

[dysfunction]

Ah, Poland with their truly impressive 1000km of coastline and portugal rocking in at 1700km or Norway who *checks notes* isn't in the EU...

Spain/France, sure, but it doesn't come close to the regular consistency or power of ours, the land mass known as the United Kingdom kind of gets in the way and the weather isn't right for wind farming.

Finland/Sweden? Have you actually checked a map lately? Their coastline is...kind of protected by land, it's essentially an internal sea (known as the Baltic) at the end of the day, whereas we have the Atlantic and the North Sea...?

Have you checked how much renewable energy the EU has been generating and which countries are at the top of the list?

 

[DaGaffer]

Ah, Poland with their truly impressive 1000km of coastline and portugal rocking in at 1700km or Norway who *checks notes* isn't in the EU...

Spain/France, sure, but it doesn't come close to the regular consistency or power of ours, the land mass known as the United Kingdom kind of gets in the way and the weather isn't right for wind farming.

Finland/Sweden? Have you actually checked a map lately? Their coastline is...kind of protected by land, it's essentially an internal sea (known as the Baltic) at the end of the day, whereas we have the Atlantic and the North Sea...?

Norway is part of the EEA internal energy market, as is Iceland. Both of which have low population and excess energy to burn.