Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Wij]

mmm. again, you miss the point entirely.

They are asking for access as part of a trade deal.

No trade deal

No access.

Right?

I have already said that it isn't much of a chip to hold but that doesn't stop it from being the case, no trade deal, no access. it is what it is.

Or do you think the UK should just allow the EU to do what they like in our waters out of good faith? what?

On No Deal terms we won't be able to sell the fish. We'd have to develop a taste for mackerel and herring.

 

[Raven]

Well, then I'm sure the EU won't mind not fishing in our waters then

 

[Hawkwind]

On No Deal terms, we won't be able to sell the fish. We'd have to develop a taste for mackerel and herring.

Not having access to the market would be a violation of WTO GATT unless they actively blocking trade with huge tariffs. That would have huge repercussions and likely not just from the UK. The EU also does not want to start a trade war, the balance of trade is massively in their favour so they effectively have more to lose.

From what I understand the French won't budge on Fishing rights in UK waters they want a minimum of 10 years access to 80% of the water. Which seems a huge ask and one UK fisherman don't want. Yes, I know its less than one percent of trade so why bother? It's more about the principle and If France were in our position no way in hell would they be giving it up.

 

[Wij]

They can leave the tariffs at WTO levels and our fish will be uncompetitive. Perfectly legal and would make our fishing unprofitable.

Why people wouldn't expect the EU to play hardball now that we are a competitor baffles me.

 

[Raven]

People will need to eat more locally sourced fish then, instead of shipping it all over Europe..

win - win

 

[dysfunction]

People will need to eat more locally sourced fish then, instead of shipping it all over Europe..

win - win

Yes because we will be able to eat everything they catch.

 

[Wij]

Yes because we will be able to eat everything they catch.

Sure. Battered herring and chips will catch on.

 

[Raven]

If we don't then the stocks will replenish. It is heavily over fished as it is.

Less fish pulled out and sent 1000s of miles over Europe can only be a good thing.

 

[Embattle]

They can leave the tariffs at WTO levels and our fish will be uncompetitive. Perfectly legal and would make our fishing unprofitable.

Why people wouldn't expect the EU to play hardball now that we are a competitor baffles me.

I have no issue with that since a lot of EU products will become uncompetitive in the UK as well, as for the hardball that is all we are doing yet what seems to be fine for them is wrong for us to do and even worse I take issue with those who continue to wear blinders to what the EU is asking and trying to do in a Trade deal.

 

[Ormorof]

Is this the first trade deal in history where negotiation is about going from total free trade to putting barriers in place?

 

[dysfunction]

If we don't then the stocks will replenish. It is heavily over fished as it is.

Less fish pulled out and sent 1000s of miles over Europe can only be a good thing.

Yes great for the environment. All for that.
But also less money for the fisherman who won't be able to make a proper living which is why it was sold of to non UK companies in the first place

 

[Job]

It just dumbfounds me that people actually thought they wouldnt.

Like its a fucking bakeoff episode or something.

Brexit trade talks may continue after MEPs' deadline, says France

European affairs minister, Clément Beaune, says Paris will not be rushed into deal over next 48 hours

www.theguardian.com

 

[dysfunction]

It just dumbfounds me that people actually thought they wouldnt.

Like its a fucking bakeoff episode or something.

Brexit trade talks may continue after MEPs' deadline, says France

European affairs minister, Clément Beaune, says Paris will not be rushed into deal over next 48 hours

www.theguardian.com

Who said they wouldn't extend deadlines?
nobody.

 

[Scouse]

If we don't then the stocks will replenish. It is heavily over fished as it is.

Less fish pulled out and sent 1000s of miles over Europe can only be a good thing.

This is my view on that. But then people need jobs.

 

[MYstIC G]

This is my view on that. But then people need jobs.

But they don't have to be fishermen

 

[Scouse]

But they don't have to be fishermen

True. But it's a shitty way to lose something that would be a vocation - perhaps generational.

 

[MYstIC G]

True. But it's a shitty way to lose something that would be a vocation - perhaps generational.

Given the environmental damage caused, not sure I share that view. Same as if we were talking about coal mining.

Yes having to switch careers is a shit time for those it happens to but it is not impossible.

 

[Job]

The UK not having a fishing industry is like France not having ski resorts.

 

[Wij]

The UK not having a fishing industry is like France not having ski resorts.

There'll be one. It will just be much shittier with EU tariffs and without EU subsidies.

Hey ho.

 

[Job]

You dont get anywhere in the long run by subsidising things.
It always catches you up eventually.

 

[Gwadien]

The UK not having a fishing industry is like France not having ski resorts.

Funny that Wetherspoon (As in the company who is owned by a massive Brexiteer) had their fish from Chinese trawlers off the coast of Alaska.

Hurrah!

 

[Scouse]

Given the environmental damage caused, not sure I share that view. Same as if we were talking about coal mining.

Yes having to switch careers is a shit time for those it happens to but it is not impossible.

We won't ban trawler fishing.

The problem is too many humans

 

[Raven]

True. But it's a shitty way to lose something that would be a vocation - perhaps generational.

Shit happens.

Coal miners.

There will be plenty of work for fisherman with off shore wind.

 

[Raven]

Also, if the EU want to play hard ball, then we can just do the same with green electric.

I know the Germans do love a bit of coal but they need to grow up.

 

[Embattle]

Brexit: No trade deal unless 'substantial shift' from EU, UK says

With a decision expected before Christmas, UK sources say it is increasingly likely there will be no deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Raven]

Interesting that fishing rights and access to UK waters (not EU waters) are still such a big deal to the EU

Brexit: No trade deal unless 'substantial shift' from EU, UK says

With a decision expected before Christmas, UK sources say it is increasingly likely there will be no deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

Despite it just being some bits of herring or whatever.

And lets not get started on dodgy tax and anti competition laws, there is a reason why many multi-nationals HQ in Luxembourg and it ain't EU unity or fair play.

 

[dysfunction]

Interesting that fishing rights and access to UK waters (not EU waters) are still such a big deal to the EU

Brexit: No trade deal unless 'substantial shift' from EU, UK says

With a decision expected before Christmas, UK sources say it is increasingly likely there will be no deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

Despite it just being some bits of herring or whatever.

And lets not get started on dodgy tax and anti competition laws, there is a reason why many multi-nationals HQ in Luxembourg and it ain't EU unity or fair play.

Nothing to do with fish really. It's to do with the EU protecting the "Level Playing Field".

The level playing field is a trade policy term for a set of common rules and standards that prevent businesses in one country gaining a competitive advantage over those operating in other countries.

The EU won't enter a deal that will undermine this.

 

[Raven]

Yes, except;

Taxes, multinational firms & Luxembourg—revealed

Luxembourg has come under fire for operating as a tax haven, but it's always been hard to prove how companies use it to cut their tax bills—until now.

www.cnbc.com

List of companies of Luxembourg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and so on.

They don't want us to compete with them, which makes sense but that does not equal a level playing field.

 

[dysfunction]

Yes, except;

Taxes, multinational firms & Luxembourg—revealed

Luxembourg has come under fire for operating as a tax haven, but it's always been hard to prove how companies use it to cut their tax bills—until now.

www.cnbc.com

List of companies of Luxembourg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and so on.

They don't want us to compete with them, which makes sense but that does not equal a level playing field.

Nothing to stop other countries in the EU doing the same thing right? If an another EU country trades with Luxembourg they are on equal footing right?
A level playing field from the EU perspective ie for countries within the EU. They don't care if the UK is at a disadvantage. That is our problem to resolve.

 

[Raven]

Which is what I said

Yet Luxembourg operates as some sort of tax haven, within the EU and has an unfair advantage over other EU countries.

They know that if there is no deal then we can just compete with Luxembourg.