Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Embattle]

Not sure why people are so upset about fishing when a fair bit of it was sold to non-UK companies ...

Again it is more about control, also again it isn't the only issue.

Common Fisheries Policy | Institute for Government

The UK receives €243.1m in subsidies between 2014 and 2020 under the CFP. After Brexit, those subsidies will end.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk

 

[Wij]

Again it is more about control, also again it isn't the only issue.

Illusory control. If we get more fishing waters then the EU will put higher tariffs on to compensate.

 

[Scouse]

Illusory control. If we get more fishing waters then the EU will put higher tariffs on to compensate.

WHY ARE YOU POSTING ABOUT BREXIT WHEN I WANT TO GIVE WILMA A LIKE?

 

[Raven]

But why would we allow a foreign country to fish in our waters though? Would we allow Russia? America?

I know its small and of little significance in the greater scheme of things but we also need to control how much is fished, it's a finite source that is under great strain. Access would require agreements and quotas.

 

[Gwadien]

The seas, much like space and climate change should be controlled by an international organisation.

Tribalism over nothing.

 

[Raven]

Yes, but they aren't...so.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes, but they aren't...so.

Seem to be making leaps back from the idea though, not leaps forward.

 

[Raven]

Well no, that would be something that would take years to put together and would need everyone involved, not just the UK and the EU so for now our seas are our responsibility.

I'm not saying we aren't trying to use it as leverage but there are reasons why we can't just allow open access without agreements, or no deal.

 

[Gwadien]

Well no, that would be something that would take years to put together and would need everyone involved, not just the UK and the EU so for now our seas are our responsibility.

I'm not saying we aren't trying to use it as leverage but there are reasons why we can't just allow open access without agreements, or no deal.

Because of politics.

Backwards neanderthal politics which makes us squabble over the same old shit to justify their existence rather than advancing as a planet.

I do think it's the one thing that stops us from being... better. More so than technology.

*Laughs in globalism*

 

[Embattle]

WHY ARE YOU POSTING ABOUT BREXIT WHEN I WANT TO GIVE WILMA A LIKE?

She doesn't like Welshies

 

[Gwadien]

Disagree @Embattle or wishful thinking?

 

[Scouse]

She doesn't like Welshies

This is a more important discussion point than fish.

 

[Embattle]

The EEZ was organised by an actual international organisation, not one you and quite a few others tend to think is one but doesn't really do anything different from what you tend to criticise the UK government for on trade, access, state aid, protectionism, etc.

This is a more important discussion point than fish.

Certainly less divisive....plus better looking.

 

[Raven]

Because of politics.

Backwards neanderthal politics which makes us squabble over the same old shit to justify their existence rather than advancing as a planet.

I do think it's the one thing that stops us from being... better. More so than technology.

*Laughs in globalism*

The EU is one of the most insular, protectionist establishments in the world, lol

 

[Wij]

WHY ARE YOU POSTING ABOUT BREXIT WHEN I WANT TO GIVE WILMA A LIKE?

 

[Scouse]

We all know the bad girl on the starship would have been a better shag tho, right @Wij

 

[Wij]

We all know the bad girl on the starship would have been a better shag tho, right @Wij

Ardala?

 

[Wij]

I dunno. I think Wilma had her dirty side too.

 

[Raven]

I'll be in my bunk.

 

[DaGaffer]

Would we allow Russia? America?

Yes, and yes. If they pay us or otherwise give us a quid pro quo. If this was just that kind of discussion, we'd be done already.

 

[Embattle]

Oh noes - Lorry drivers heading to EU face ham sandwich ban

 

[Ormorof]

Oh noes - Lorry drivers heading to EU face ham sandwich ban

Coronation chicken only

 

[Raven]

Yes, and yes. If they pay us or otherwise give us a quid pro quo. If this was just that kind of discussion, we'd be done already.

That would require some sort of...agreement/deal?

 

[Jupitus]

I'm drunk. Please do carry on enjoying yourselves!

 

[DaGaffer]

That would require some sort of...agreement/deal?

What part of "If they pay us or otherwise give us a quid pro quo " are you struggling with? And by the way, Russians fish in UK waters pretty regularly, because they pay the UK and EU to do so (and because they work as subcontractors for EU/UK food companies). That was my point; if this was just about straightforward trade, the deal would be done by now; its about control. Personally this is one occasion where the UK has slightly more high ground than the EU (butt not much), but a lot of things the UK wants (like annual quota and terms reviews) are tainted by the UK's terrible behaviour over the last four years' negotiations. Would you want to go through this shit with the UK every 12 months? The truth is, the UK gives no shits about the long term sustainability of its fisheries, they just fancy regular bidding wars for an increasingly scarce resource, and the EU knows it, and let's be honest, so do we all.

Russian supertrawlers off Scottish coast spark fears for UK marine life

Environmentalists call for crackdown on ‘destructive’ vessels after fleet spotted

www.theguardian.com

.

 

[Raven]

What part of "If they pay us or otherwise give us a quid pro quo " are you struggling with? And by the way, Russians fish in UK waters pretty regularly, because they pay the UK and EU to do so

Yes, an agreement then, or how should we put it, a deal?

You can stick to your guns as much as you like, a deal, or lack thereof is a deal, or lack thereof.

Put it this way, the moment we leave the EU without a deal, the EU have as much of an agreement to fish in our waters as Somalia does. You just can't rock up into another counties waters, or land and do what you like, it just doesn't work like that. Some sort of agreement...or deal...has to be achieved first.

 

[Raven]

Edit;

We have already established that the government are using this tool poorly and it doesn't really mean much in the greater scheme of things anyway but it is what it is. If we leave the EU with no agreement then they have absolutely no right to fish in our waters, unless specifically agreed via private contract. Sure the French could privately purchase rights to fish in our waters and I imagine they will but that's not the same thing as having some sort of free reign.

And even then, any quotas will be decided by us, not the EU.

I'm not even sure what you are struggling to understand about that...

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes, an agreement then, or how should we put it, a deal?

You can stick to your guns as much as you like, a deal, or lack thereof is a deal, or lack thereof.

Put it this way, the moment we leave the EU without a deal, the EU have as much of an agreement to fish in our waters as Somalia does. You just can't rock up into another counties waters, or land and do what you like, it just doesn't work like that. Some sort of agreement...or deal...has to be achieved first.

And in the meantime you've burned down the country for a big lottery win's worth of fish. The EU is not asking for free access to UK waters (you seem to be under some misapprehension about this), its asking for access as part of a trade deal, and if it was just about access the deal would be done. Trade deals are multifaceted, and is £300m of fish worth tariffs on the other £300 billion of UK trade? No, it isn't and both sides know it, so this impasse isn't about the money, which has been my point from the start.

 

[Raven]

mmm. again, you miss the point entirely.

They are asking for access as part of a trade deal.

No trade deal

No access.

Right?

I have already said that it isn't much of a chip to hold but that doesn't stop it from being the case, no trade deal, no access. it is what it is.

Or do you think the UK should just allow the EU to do what they like in our waters out of good faith? what?

 

[Scouse]

I think you're both agreeing but can't see it.

Gaff is saying it'd be dumb not to give them 300m worth of access. Raven's saying we don't have to (obvs). Not really sure where you're differing?