Patch 1.82 C - Remedy Nerf !?

[Void959]

How is that wrong? A well played stealther CAN and WILL kill anything in the game. There is nothing you can do vs an assasin with everything up.... Disease /snare kite tanks hit and run tactic. might take ages to kill but eventually target goes down slowly...
Conclusion I should of said: Assasin is the only class that are ABLE to kill anything and if they come in a situation where they arent they are able to avoid being killed.

Yes the snare + kite tactic could work against heavy and light tanks, but let's completely ignore the fact that 90% of assassins aren't lame or bored enough to use this, let's completely ignore the fact that it would take 1-2 minutes which in most situations means guaranteed adds, let's completely ignore the fact they'd have to have vanish up to beat your charge where its on a 15 minute timer and charge 3 is 90 seconds:

What about minstrels? What about skalds? What about heretics, wardens, friars? What about reavers, vampiir and thanes?

Every one of these classes can counter the snare tactic, and every one of these classes at an equivalent RR and skill level has a decent to strong chance of beating an assassin in melee.

I could go into casters but don't feel the need, you said that a well played assassin can and will kill everything in the game, and I just listed 8 classes that he can't necessarily. Unless you can prove me wrong in every one of these cases then there's no need for me to argue further.

 

[Dukat]

poor scouts

Sums that patch up pretty well for me.

Glad assassins are finally getting some anti-caster tools, but its still a slap in the face to the archer community, who have been requesting some sort of brittle bypass(Ra/Spec/whatever) ever since they came out.

Scouts in particular - being at the low end of the archer triad melee wise - are going to suffer from this, the WS poison is going to damage already poor blockrates and the overall CS line damage increase for assassins is going to leave us(imo) more or less unable to compete.

Archer's are meant to be caster hunters to be fair, not assassins, yes I am glad they've finally got some sort of counter to brittles but archers should be getting something similar this patch as well.

And yea, as bad as we've got it, I think wizzies should be the first in line for love. As usual mythic have made a complete ballsup of boosting classes, maybe they have some sort of grand plan but I just cant see it.

 

[Andrilyn]

but then again, I can't see any casters, bar warlock, being able to survive a pa chain anyway.

Seriously invest some points into PD.
My unToA'ed (no MLs) wiz with around 1500 hp will not die in 1 second to even a succesful PA chain.
If you have like capped melee resists (which every caster should have anyway) and add a few levels of PD and you can take more melee damage than any other class in the game.

I've seen casters with PD4/5 take multiple rounds of an assist train and surviving with just some minor heals.
This Brittle guard 'nerf' will just make it so the average rr4 caster will have to invest his first few points into some PD instead of going mass damage passives right from the start.

 

[Chimaira]

In the time it takes to kill 3 brittle guards and a blade turn the caster has killed you 3 times over, thank cast speed for that.

As for the poisons, well.. tanks get better armor, more hp, access to IP, etc etc.

I can agree that a solo RA specced merc/arms/hero and so forth has way beter survival odds. to bad most of those mercs including me is det5 pain str etc and it does fuck all vs stealthers

Best way I avoid the CD when running solo getting paed is Im hovering mouse over AOE DT so they fumble the CD or several if they zerg then I peel em off

 

[Dalilama]

omg at some here that whine about stealters, assasins in general beeing to good vs caster in daoc atm are just stupid or have never played a 50ish stealther

Why the FUCK do they do stealther love. the classes that can kill anything in the game or get away from anything in the game as they please.

omg are you for real? You are so clueless that i get afraid of the dark.

 

[rure]

the only chance i EVER had versus a stealher were the brittles..

i am dead before i can even moc-pbaoe, and if i werent, i would never last long enough to even get the 3-4 (75% damage) pbaoes of to kill a stealher.

moc - lifedrain > moc - pbaoe vs stealthers.

wtf is a fire wiz suposed to do even ? rofl.

this might be a good thing to tone down the general overpowerdness of casters vs stealthers, for wizes, it is disaster.

the only chance a caster has vs stealhers is to disable the stealther in one qcast, providing he survives the pa-chain...

Okey... I've said it 2 times, will say it one more time because you dont seem to get it. Casters arent supposed to win versus an assassin in 1vs1 fight.

IE. your ice wizard is meant to die versus any random SB or NS you stumble upon. Do you understand?

maybe if i solo some on my bd some assassins going to attack me in less than 3 now lets see ^^

Hah, I doubt it Maybe if they have a couple of scout/ranger friends as back up

 

[Dwali]

and only a warlock can kill a 2500 hp tank in 1 sec

i dont think so...my reaver has 2.3k or so hp bufft and a high rr chanter nukes me to death before stun goes away if i dont resist 1 or 2 spells

 

[Dr_Evil]

My skald with capped heat resist got killed today from 1500 range by a wizard: 825 dmg + 675 dmg + 675 dmg.

This happened faster than I could hit IP2 or move. (Can't use this ability when you're dead.) I only experience this from wizards and cabalists. For classes that can do this kind of damage from range, it's only fair that they should (hopefully) be killable in melee.

 

[Tiarta]

My skald with capped heat resist got killed today from 1500 range by a wizard: 825 dmg + 675 dmg + 675 dmg.

This happened faster than I could hit IP2 or move. (Can't use this ability when you're dead.) I only experience this from wizards and cabalists. For classes that can do this kind of damage from range, it's only fair that they should (hopefully) be killable in melee.

can you also say warlocks ?

 

[Righthandof]

that cant be cabby.. only fire wizards newk like that, who gave up everything to get this kind of damage. no debuffs, no instas at all, no pet, just a gimpy root left - they should be able to deal good damage than. pretty easy to kill in melee of course :> i usually 2 hit my wiz friend

 

[Chimaira]

to be quite honest Wizards and Runemasters arent all that far apart. except for a low nearsight which is nice when you run 8man or solo vs casters you aint having much tool except the "nice" baseline root. Im counting Darkness vs Fire spec here.

I just think wizards has a bit higher dmg out put especially vs casters with their double bolts with no variance. RM with dark spec gets spec nuke but shit base bolt and low damage due to low spec.

Wizards can double bolt and spec DD
Runemasters can Spec DD and nearsight

two classes in need of some loving if you ask me. even though both are solid classes

The only reason people whine about wizard damage is that they can ONLY do damage so that is what they do. So they spam the damage rather than a RM who spend its time also nearsighting

P.S I love stealther whining. your the scum of the earth I wish you all bad and that you get an arena and groups get theirs with no chance to enter each others lands. Whine solved and we can have fun on our own sides

 

[Eva]

to be quite honest Wizards and Runemasters arent all that far apart. except for a low nearsight which is nice when you run 8man or solo vs casters you aint having much tool except the "nice" baseline root. Im counting Darkness vs Fire spec here.

I just think wizards has a bit higher dmg out put especially vs casters with their double bolts with no variance. RM with dark spec gets spec nuke but shit base bolt and low damage due to low spec.

Wizards can double bolt and spec DD
Runemasters can Spec DD and nearsight

two classes in need of some loving if you ask me. even though both are solid classes

The only reason people whine about wizard damage is that they can ONLY do damage so that is what they do. So they spam the damage rather than a RM who spend its time also nearsighting

P.S I love stealther whining. your the scum of the earth I wish you all bad and that you get an arena and groups get theirs with no chance to enter each others lands. Whine solved and we can have fun on our own sides

RM got more spec options, darkness is far from the best imo. RC rm get bolts and debuff nuking, more dps than firewizard, but no nearsight. Tri spec gives you blue ns, 30% debuff and 3x darkness for damage. Should work nicely and it also offers debuff for others in the group. Wizard can't spec for a debuff so the group can do more damage, they can only do damage on their own, and no utility like nearsight.

the only chance i EVER had versus a stealher were the brittles..

He said it two times, stealthers are supposed to kill casters, end of story. The game have always been intended like that and always will. They got to many tools in toa and now the tools are getting nerfed vs assassins(finally).

 

[Chimaira]

dont know what your on about really. Maybe my lowbie RR RM in the sig tells you I dont know the class. Ive played rr11 RM multiple times with all those specs you mentioned. and the only reason Im considering respeccing my RM to tri spec at rr6 is that I will nuke FASTER. But I wont nuke HARDER. I wont even get damage over time quicker. at the end of the day Darkness rules for fg rvr atleast.

RC rm get bolts and debuff nuking, more dps than firewizard

Lol? They wont have more dps cause they can 50% debuff variance nukes. not to mention with that spec you give up nearsight which is one of the few extras the RM gets. Not to mention what I said about powercost. insane powercost.

1. Darkness
2. tri spec
3. RC
4. Supp

Just my 2 nickles >,< But I have been wrong before

 

[Eva]

RC is gimp damage and very slow nukes. Nothing that worth it incase you care about the silly pbt and red nearsight over blue.

I dont know what your on about really. Maybe my lowbie RR RM in the sig tells you I dont know the class. Ive played rr11 RM multiple times with all those specs you mentioned. and the only reason Im considering respeccing my RM to tri spec at rr6 is that I will nuke FASTER. But I wont nuke HARDER. I wont even get damage over time quicker. at the end of the day Darkness rules for fg rvr atleast. RC is utility letting others handle the nukes you snare tanks/nearsight. tri spec is good but lower damage and wayyy more power cost.

Debuff nuking will be higher dps than darkness providing the darkness rms target isen't debuffed. How can you say rc spec is low damage? Would be same damage as Lillhemulen in AD 3 if you remove the hidden lifetap bonus, since he was tri spec at that time(Just to make an example).

Lol? They wont have more dps cause they can 50% debuff variance nukes. not to mention with that spec you give up nearsight which is one of the few extras the RM gets. Not to mention what I said about powercost. insane powercost.

It have been proved many times that Darkness sms have more dps than a firewizard or darkness rm. So how would a rc rm which have 50% debuff and like 5 less delve on his nukes do less damage? Sure they have variance but it's not that much with +skill and some rrs.

 

[Chimaira]

Dont use my miss written quotes please Its nearly 7.30 and I was an idiot at first writing Supp as RC >.< sorry bout that

 

[xxManiacxx]

I just hope I don´t get FOTM now. Was like the only 2h SB on the cluster

 

[xxManiacxx]

i don`t understand why an assassin would go for self healing, lol ? if it ain`t usable in combat, it`s worthless. as an assassin you have the LUXURY of just waiting in stealth after a fight or using portions (barels, charges, whatever ) to get back on full health without risk to yourself.

because u get the resists in the same line?

And its not fun sitting resting for 10min after every fight.

 

[Hawkwind]

Why the FUCK do they do stealther love. the classes that can kill anything in the game or get away from anything in the game as they please. Improved PA damage my fucking ass. This patch just makes casters awful to play. brittle nerf BT nerf increased stealth style damage.

And I agree with above poster about classic caster change on wiz and runie. but eldritch? the most util caster in the bloddy game. get over yourself

Casters have had it easy for way too long. Any tank or stealther stands no chance against a decent RR and ToA'd caster class. Its about time they readdressed the balance somewhat.

/agree on eld

Nerf on WL not enough.

Banshee's should have drop off with the range not just angle. CAOE will still be an absolute joke in certain situations.

Not sure about the Friar stuff will wait to try it in group setup - heal procs seem a bit low tbh.

 

[Kagato]

Brittle guard nerf,

Warlock nerf

banshee -mini nerf.

remedy nerf

Im actually liking a patch for a change, been a few years since I could say that.

Think the friar love is going to be more powerful then people realise, will be interesting.

Just need sm pets nerfed and we'll be getting somewhere

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

How is that wrong? A well played stealther CAN and WILL kill anything in the game. There is nothing you can do vs an assasin with everything up. rr11 light tank rr11 sorc it doesnt matter The tools an assasin got makes them able to avoid things like MOC, Charge tanks, etc. And if they would happen to be unable to kill SOI sorc there is always vanish, and to jump the sorc later. or strafe/vanish the moc. Disease /snare kite tanks hit and run tactic. might take ages to kill but eventually target goes down slowly.

Assasins is a very big part why this game is still alive, I have no doubts about that. But the massive damage an assasin are able to produce under such a short amount of time is ridicilous and even so when its boosted? wth, and this is AFTER darkness rising. I might play a merc myself and it might be an overpowered lil fucker that one. But it sucked ass back in classic to my defence =]. But I can be easily kited around and killed by a well played assasin. a Nightshade can kill be before stun wears off if their are high rr and I dont have purge. My best bet vs disease/snare kiters is to be able to give them a new one under charge duration because they are unable to flee. But then again the vanish question appears again.

Conclusion I should of said: Assasin is the only class that are ABLE to kill anything and if they come in a situation where they arent they are able to avoid being killed.

www.clueless.com

 

[Raven]

these new patch notes are looking good so far now all we need is.

Removal of vanish
Some of the RR5 abilities need looking into
Removal of convoker ml9 in a frontier zone
Removal of relics, or thier bonus changed to something a little less unbalancing (RP bonus or something)
and ofc a huge warlock nerf, dunno i thought about making chambering insta cast (out of combat) but with lower damage on the spells.

shame they have started releasing good patches 2 years to late

 

[Maril]

Even though it's sweet that remedy protects from LW procs it's a nice change. Blocking weapon skill /constituion debuff and Dot is very rewarding as well and all we need is a 7 sec stun on icestorm now

 

[Melachi]

I just hope I don´t get FOTM now. Was like the only 2h SB on the cluster

Ive seen a couple of critblades, just most aren't very active. I saw defi using 2h for a while also.

Removal of vanish

Whats everyones problem with vanish? I dont get it, its a getaway tool and thats it. Doesnt make the assasin win the fight, just not loose it. Unlike the countless abilities out there that DO win fights.

Moc, ml9, IP, Warguard, ect ect..

An active that makes you win a fight > An active that makes you not lose.

And go ahead and say it, that none of the above abilities, guarantee a win, because every stealther who has tried vanish will also tell you it doesnt guarantee a safe getaway either.

P.S. Ive never had vanish on my SB

 

[Eeben]

Really really nice patch.. about time they did something about brittle guards.. one thing i really dont like is the cs damage increase The pa chain really hurts as it is now an even on a op mincer using all the op stuff i still have problem winning if i get pa't Really nice they nerft remedy about time my malice can proc on those damn fuckers

ps..Cant wait to c what they do to mincers.. if they remove stealth like everybody who is not playing the class wants

 

[Maeloch]

Re: misc stuff

Brittles were kind of silly, needed nerfing.

They can increase PA damage 50% for all I care, while they're at it they can fix run thru abuse - it's not the PA that kills, it's the 3 or 4 quickcasts of CC that get fucked up after that kills. atm it's only me that I see whining about it, but expect more whine from convoker casters once they lose brittles and start dying easy to stealth.

Ran with PD5 for quite a while, it can be nice - skalds hitting for 200 on ragnarok during FZ - other times makes no diffence for above reason, or insta die from multiple stealth pops anyhow. Doubt it does that much vs an assist train tbh.

Wizzies have only 1 type of CC and will always be shit 1v1 vs stealth, brittles or not. But then sorcs can't pbaoe bomb lord rooms.

 

[Tosi]

I sense evil stealthzerging :<

 

[Vodkafairy]

so many people don't understand that PA does virtually NO damage on anyone with proper equipment.

the str/con debuff is applied after the PA damage has been done, reducing their max hitpoints, effectively negating all the damage PA has done. an example:

random mincer has 2000 hp
you PA random mincer for 500 damage and he has 1500 hp left
str/con debuff lands reducing his max hp to 1500

pa dmg = 0, an unstyled hit would have reduced his HP to 1500 just like PA did.

only advantage is CD stun which is easily avoided if you sprint or strafe a bit

 

[Hawkwind]

the only chance i EVER had versus a stealher were the brittles..

i am dead before i can even moc-pbaoe, and if i werent, i would never last long enough to even get the 3-4 (75% damage) pbaoes of to kill a stealher.

moc - lifedrain > moc - pbaoe vs stealthers.

wtf is a fire wiz suposed to do even ? rofl.

this might be a good thing to tone down the general overpowerdness of casters vs stealthers, for wizes, it is disaster.

the only chance a caster has vs stealhers is to disable the stealther in one qcast, providing he survives the pa-chain...

Don't think many people would argue against giving Wizi's a lot of Mythic loving. They're utility is very poor and no char should be so specialised they are only useable in situations like lords rooms defence.

At the same time the whole point of the assassin chars was to assassinate casters and support classes. The fact the balance shifted so heavily to casters with ToA it left assassins no other choice but fight/duel their own kind.

I am happy Mythic finally addressed this. Although at the same time you have a valid point. Wizi needs some defence and not just free rp's. The assassins should be made to work for them.

How to address it? Well Wizi needs more utility, why not a baseline castable stun. Obviously not as OP as the Eld 'I win all' one though. That needs nerfing slightly.

 

[Kaun_IA]

its soo funn to read that some mages think they have to win vs a stealther.

mages wherent intended to be a solo class. just the toys they got made them so op that noone could kill them.

now the foodchain is moveing toward the right way it should be. makes me allmost roll a shade...but NAH

 

[Ogen]

pft, less nerfing casters! well ok nerf warcocks and bains
Altho brittle guards seems allmoust pointless now imho. Assist train takes what, 1 sec to get em down? And now useless vs assasins to

Besides that, it seems like a lovely patch, finally some friar/thane/warden love!

Might even consider rolling a friar now, if this means they will be more group friendly