Once again GoA, what are the plans for Dyvet?

[scorge]

Not at all. We know what we want - that was decided very early on - we just need to wait to find out whether what we want is possible and what our alternatives are if it isn't.

so why not tell the players what you have decided on and let them know what you are testing, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. We both know GOA are going to get flamed what ever they do, so might as well bite the bullet and tell your customers

You could at least give a list of possible solutions that you are looking at, or are GOA worried that there decisons will scare people away?

 

[scorge]

As I said in one of my first posts in this thread, the solutions that we're looking into involve more people than just us and so we can't give you ETAs on their behalf. As soon as we know when they can deliver to us we'll know when we can deliver to you and we'll pass that on through the news.

As in the previous post, cant you let people know what you are trying to deliver? If you dont know what your trying to deliver then thats a problem! If you do tell people.

 

[Esselinithia]

Requiel: For the last 8 months, the population drop was visible, and it was known, that people look for options with more actions, and it can make the same problem continue.

In all honestly, I can understand that you don't want to implement anything in december, when an expansion comes out soon, and you have historical data showing that expansions can drive he population upwards, and that it tends to be higher in late january than in february, etc.

Implementing any solution at that time can be a problem, if you reach high enough population AND the expansion, and the normal changes (based on weather, date, tc) would add a bump to that.

But I speak about implementing the changes, not making plans for various scenarios and getting ready to execute them if they are needed. I can't name a valid reason for delays with planning and decision making. Much less after the events on Classic server.

You are doing this planning now, and by the time you make a plan to fix the current population problem, the cluster loses even more people, and you will have even harder time to get some players back, and even harder time to get new players.

Expansions, new features (from patches) can be used to make your marketing campaign more viable, etc. but when they are in the past and you are still planning you loose this chance.

This is why I said: People trusted you to make decisions in right time to act in time, when you have good chances. It is hard to have the trust for late and harder solutions too.

 

[Esselinithia]

You could at least give a list of possible solutions that you are looking at, or are GOA worried that there decisons will scare people away?

Scorge: Even if GOA would post a brilliant solution, and people doesn't expect a change from it, and doesn't see any good change in numbers (which is possible when the plan is implemented), some will decide "It won't be fixed" and will leave for that.

Some of these people now wait for information and willing to wait "one more week" (friday news if they are thinking about going to german or french servers) or "one more very last month" (subscribtion period, if they are looking for US servers / another game) everytime they face the choice.

Posts aren't good. Solutions are good. And if we would see GOA is now more friendly, customer focused, fair, the support is better, etc. so things are changing, and the cluster has a chance.

Sadly we don't see changes.
We don't see if GOA is admiting they started planning a bit late, and they learned from the problem.

And this is worse than the lack of posts.

 

[Zede]

GoA have a meeting, get some ideas together.

They send it to Mythic.

Mythic have a meeting, get some ideas together based on the GoA ideas.


Mythic send it to EA.


EA have a meeting, and basically nothing happens because they dont give a fuck.


Thats all there is to it.

 

[Thadius]

GoA have a meeting, get some ideas together.

They send it to Mythic.

Mythic have a meeting, get some ideas together based on the GoA ideas.


Mythic send it to EA.


EA have a meeting, and release a series of expansions, each one slightly different, such as different colours clothes or housing add ons!

Oh wait, thats the Sims....

Thats the real truth

 

[lpep]

just seems too little too late tbh... my guild went to Us servers a couple months ago... 20 + people with 2 + accounts each...... to get those people back would take nothing short of a miracle tbh....not to mention the fact that people are enjoying the servers there.. plenty rvr and plenty ml raids/arti raids when needed.....why play excal....

 

[Thadius]

just seems too little too late tbh... my guild went to Us servers a couple months ago... 20 + people with 2 + accounts each...... to get those people back would take nothing short of a miracle tbh....not to mention the fact that people are enjoying the servers there.. plenty rvr and plenty ml raids/arti raids when needed.....why play excal....

You Sarumans Hand?

 

[lpep]

You Sarumans Hand?

indeed

 

[Eeben]

We do know what the players want, how do you think we reached a decision on what we wanted? We didn't just pull ideas out of a hat. My job isn't just to tell you about Goa, it's also to tell Goa about you.

As I said in one of my first posts in this thread, the solutions that we're looking into involve more people than just us and so we can't give you ETAs on their behalf. As soon as we know when they can deliver to us we'll know when we can deliver to you and we'll pass that on through the news.

to bad it will be to late :touch:

you would think you guys learnt from all the years you guys had daoc but guess not

 

[Tallen]

Because some of the people at that table have to go away to talk about what happened at the table with people at a different set of tables and then the consensus reached at those tables has to be discussed back at the original table. Also even when a consensus is reached, other people who weren't at the original table have to decide whether the results can actually be made to happen or if we need to go back and find a different consensus.

If there was a simple solution we'd have implemented it already.

Thats the funniest thing I have heard all year, laughed so hard I almost wet myself, very funny stuff

Oh, sry, you mean your not joking? Now im laughing twice as hard and definitely need a new pair of trousers

 

[Amanita]

Hasn't Requiel explained that he can't give us any more information about what they have planned until they discover whether or not it can be done? I'd rather wait for the final verdict (pleasepleaseplease choose my dream solution!) and have fun imagining what that could be instead of whining that the news hasn't come yet. Of course, its different for me as I have already jumped ship and I am playing on a US server..

The only thing I have decided is that if they cluster with a different language server I'd sell my accounts as I wouldn't be returning. My enjoyment of Glastonbury was killed by the language problem with all the french people.

As for this being the "death of daoc", according to all the doomsayers that should have happened at least two years ago and yet a lot of people are still playing or watching FH and the GoA site for news of the state of the UK servers to see if its worth coming back.

 

[Thadius]

Hasn't Requiel explained that he can't give us any more information about what they have planned until they discover whether or not it can be done? I'd rather wait for the final verdict (pleasepleaseplease choose my dream solution!) and have fun imagining what that could be instead of whining that the news hasn't come yet. Of course, its different for me as I have already jumped ship and I am playing on a US server..

The only thing I have decided is that if they cluster with a different language server I'd sell my accounts as I wouldn't be returning. My enjoyment of Glastonbury was killed by the language problem with all the french people.

As for this being the "death of daoc", according to all the doomsayers that should have happened at least two years ago and yet a lot of people are still playing or watching FH and the GoA site for news of the state of the UK servers to see if its worth coming back.

I would buy Catherine just so a greasy frenchie like Horner wouldnt get his hands on her

 

[Imgormiel]

bureocracy only favours bureocrats...

Then learn not to be bureaucratic

 

[Imgormiel]

so why not tell the players what you have decided on and let them know what you are testing, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. We both know GOA are going to get flamed what ever they do, so might as well bite the bullet and tell your customers

You could at least give a list of possible solutions that you are looking at, or are GOA worried that there decisons will scare people away?

Because that's not the way they do things, and that's not inside info, it's standard procedure for any business.

 

[Imgormiel]

GoA have a meeting, get some ideas together.

They send it to Mythic.

Mythic have a meeting, get some ideas together based on the GoA ideas.


Mythic send it to EA.


EA have a meeting, and basically nothing happens because they dont give a fuck.


Thats all there is to it.

A statement that has no clout to it whatsoever, seriously, think about it a bit harder next time

 

[Imgormiel]

Hasn't Requiel explained that he can't give us any more information about what they have planned until they discover whether or not it can be done? I'd rather wait for the final verdict (pleasepleaseplease choose my dream solution!) and have fun imagining what that could be instead of whining that the news hasn't come yet. Of course, its different for me as I have already jumped ship and I am playing on a US server..

The only thing I have decided is that if they cluster with a different language server I'd sell my accounts as I wouldn't be returning. My enjoyment of Glastonbury was killed by the language problem with all the french people.

As for this being the "death of daoc", according to all the doomsayers that should have happened at least two years ago and yet a lot of people are still playing or watching FH and the GoA site for news of the state of the UK servers to see if its worth coming back.

/hug

 

[Icebreaker]

The Game should be free until you reach level 25!

 

[Phantomby]

The Game should be free until you reach level 25!

thats not a bad idea at all...

 

[Punishment]

Crim and Crau being PvE'd as we speak on Hib frontier

Who gives a fuck anymore tbh ... the whole cluster is being griefed by a handful of fuckwits and GoA isn't lifting a finger , save your ''In the Pipeline'' Shitetalk ... and get the basic's down first :|

 

[eble@work]

Crim and Crau being PvE'd as we speak on Hib frontier

Who gives a fuck anymore tbh ... the whole cluster is being griefed by a handful of fuckwits and GoA isn't lifting a finger , save your ''In the Pipeline'' Shitetalk ... and get the basic's down first :|

two hours before I get home and try and save the day, I'll just stick my ranger at the top of a tower/keep.

The will go running the other direction when the see its not just guards to kill.

Eble

 

[Raven]

its all within the SOTG though mates!

 

[rampant]

lol looks like ingormiel is still after a job a goa

face it - you cant defend the undefendable!

 

[scorge]

Because that's not the way they do things, and that's not inside info, it's standard procedure for any business.

I agree that its the normal way when you are making decisons that will not impact your customers directly, e.g. making internal changes to a network. Then endless meetings are not that a problem from a customer perspective because they would not reaaly see that impact or the delays.

If there were more english players we would not be having this discussion, if there where more english players GOA would Listen more to us. I know requierl will say that GOA do listen to us, and i believe they do. But from a business prospective, we are at the bottom of the pile. We have the lowest population by language, and are way down from the German and French servers, as a result we bring less money in, and so are voice is not as loud.

IF you asked GOA "if due to running costs and overheads you had to lose my server language, which one would you choose: French, German, or English"

They would have to choose english due to that would equate to the least loss.

The server is dieing, albeit slowly, the longer GOA take to make a decsion, they harder it will be to get people back.

In my opinion GOA have only to viable solutions for long term population increase:

1) Make the English servers free to play on and just charge for the expansions

2) Cluster the english servers with the US ones

 

[Imgormiel]

lol looks like ingormiel is still after a job a goa

I am just a scrounging bastard like you and nothing more

 

[Imgormiel]

I agree that its the normal way when you are making decisons that will not impact your customers directly, e.g. making internal changes to a network. Then endless meetings are not that a problem from a customer perspective because they would not reaaly see that impact or the delays.

If there were more english players we would not be having this discussion, if there where more english players GOA would Listen more to us. I know requierl will say that GOA do listen to us, and i believe they do. But from a business prospective, we are at the bottom of the pile. We have the lowest population by language, and are way down from the German and French servers, as a result we bring less money in, and so are voice is not as loud.

IF you asked GOA "if due to running costs and overheads you had to lose my server language, which one would you choose: French, German, or English"

They would have to choose english due to that would equate to the least loss.

The server is dieing, albeit slowly, the longer GOA take to make a decsion, they harder it will be to get people back.

In my opinion GOA have only to viable solutions for long term population increase:

1) Make the English servers free to play on and just charge for the expansions

2) Cluster the english servers with the US ones

Nice point and repped. But again, we'll have to wait n see, and what they do is more likely to affect on how soon I come back and play the game again. So tbh, I am just as anxious as you to see what GOA is going to do

 

[Nate]

<waits patiently for the news.....> i wonder if it will include anything reguarding dyvet ;o taking bets! 390-1

 

[Esselinithia]

scorge: Let me see. Many people left English cluster for german / french clusters. GOA has reasons to think these people are happy with their serivce, but unhappy with the state of dyvet, and can point to problems in the community. If GOA doesn't handle the servers differently - in theory - the differences should be attributed either to luck, or community, or different kinds of customers. Or maybe routing differences, etc.

While different CMs are part of the differences, they would have limited effects. Of course we can point at some differences in quality of service: Like the all famous prydwen crash. It was enough for many people to learn: You can expect partial solutions from GOA. But editing databases (instead of just using GM commands), adding static items instead of ROGs with similar advantages, etc. would be too much effort.

But we also seen, that when prydwen people flooded excal many had nothing to do. Not only because of the crash, but also because none of the volunteers decided to make some fun events. Of course same can be said about other members of the community, except they haven't volunteered to run events, support the community when the GMs can't pay attention, so noone could expect any work from them.

With the same effort, it is easier to support a community that tries to support itself, and even if GOA would give a better fix for prydwen problem, the downtime AND the waittime for item restoration would still do a lot of damage with limited chances for fun.

But we can point at the difference in amount of xp groups (and newbies) in the game, that can make a community better. Also the way you look at RvR. And one more problem with dyvet: While we say it is the "English" cluster, it isn't supporting an English community, but an international community.

Russian, Slovakian, Swedish, Finnish, Hungarian, Norvegian, Slovenian, Romanian, ... etc. players in the community. All with different cultural background, and probably different playing style, and it means extra conflicts.

It makes distribution harder, makes contacting ISPs harder, makes speaking with players harder.

But it also meant: We are used to see people speaking different languages on the server. In the case of "english" classic server, we had to deal with some other languages too. And we spoke about veteran daoc players, who can understand what happens without actually understanding the language of the messages from the server.

Even with these changes, and with some people rolling new alts for cluster to have access for 2 realms on classic, etc. changing the language for clustering didn't help. For a normal server, with more newbies, etc. it would be even worse, so GOA has reasons to say, clustering with other servers is out of question.

Clustering with Mythic servers would be pretty hard (we are on different version, differrent login servers).

Giving a free service: Would it be better than freeshards? And besides this, I am not sure if their current infastructure would support accounts that are good for single server language only. And it would be highly unfair for french, germans, etc. And some woul take over the server.

Also: Any fix for the population problem alone is a temporary fix. If GOA can make sure English servers can keep players happy, and playing, AND can attract some new players, then we speak about a longer term solution. GOA has to do all the work they refused to do for years for this fix.

How RP servers help in USA? Easy: If you have RP people who will siege, treat RvR as war between realms and move with zergs, add at every oppurtunity and fg vs fg leet people on different servers, you win twice:

Keep fg people happy because they have less adds (you can make a server type where adding without request is banable, give high xp bonuses, add "goa" quests with good xp awards and some armor set to get you to fg scene quickly!)

And the casual players are happier, if they run into less "leet fgs" and can siege without harrashment, they don't need fotm template, they can level without PL, there are other like minded people who feel at home, etc. Different server types and agressive recruiting would be just as good as futher clustering.

These new server types, character transfers (they are coming, if I know well) and some advertising can be far better than any clustering or making the servers free...

 

[Afran]

Blood :s

Heh, the memories of him camping on the little hill to the left as you exit APK, and he had that bugged bow too that had uber range

 

[Nate]

nothing about dyvet in the news!