Once again GoA, what are the plans for Dyvet?

[Raven]

nerf edit timer.

Dont question where the population went or what goa can do about it (as if they can or indeed intend to do anything about it) if you are not willing to see other peoples play styles or leave them alone to enjoy it, zerg and play like a retard all you like but you don't have to go out of your way to grief others, there were plenty of other zergers/people of your ability around to fight, you lot had to do it in the areas where the only competition were duos and trios. your crusade for free RP has damaged your long term enjoyment of the game. most of us who have left are quite happy with things now, we dont really miss daoc. you on the other hand who cant quite cut the ties are the ones suffering through your wank gameplay.

mastercard would call it priceless.

 

[lpep]

nerf edit timer.

Dont question where the population went or what goa can do about it (as if they can or indeed intend to do anything about it) if you are not willing to see other peoples play styles or leave them alone to enjoy it, zerg and play like a retard all you like but you don't have to go out of your way to grief others, there were plenty of other zergers/people of your ability around to fight, you lot had to do it in the areas where the only competition were duos and trios. your crusade for free RP has damaged your long term enjoyment of the game. most of us who have left are quite happy with things now, we dont really miss daoc. you on the other hand who cant quite cut the ties are the ones suffering through your wank gameplay.

mastercard would call it priceless.

taking into account i spent most of my time in duo trio i dont count that as zerging...killing someone solo who would happily add when it suited them is again another story all together...whining at poeple constantly because they refuse to play what you see as the right way to play.. how many solo peeps have ya run down in your fg's roaming....

 

[Thadius]

nerf edit timer.

Dont question where the population went or what goa can do about it (as if they can or indeed intend to do anything about it) if you are not willing to see other peoples play styles or leave them alone to enjoy it, zerg and play like a retard all you like but you don't have to go out of your way to grief others, there were plenty of other zergers/people of your ability around to fight, you lot had to do it in the areas where the only competition were duos and trios. your crusade for free RP has damaged your long term enjoyment of the game. most of us who have left are quite happy with things now, we dont really miss daoc. you on the other hand who cant quite cut the ties are the ones suffering through your wank gameplay.

mastercard would call it priceless.

I love you Raven!

What you said was true, I was happy for 8 months without the DAOC. Then Ellie, Tears and co decided to try out Classic in the US. The difference in playstyles is quite large and yet you can still find your 8vs 8, zerg or solo fights.

 

[Malcolm]

Bold makes me cry irl

it's a good job that bbcode doesn't support [blink]

 

[kivik]

taking into account i spent most of my time in duo trio i dont count that as zerging...killing someone solo who would happily add when it suited them is again another story all together...whining at poeple constantly because they refuse to play what you see as the right way to play.. how many solo peeps have ya run down in your fg's roaming....

Not counting trios or dous against soloers as zerging is covering your eyes for the truth. You won't get away from the fact that you and your guild will be remember as the worst RP-whore zerging players in Midgard. The guild that was so damn fast to leave when it started getting worse, not enough soloers to uphold your weekly rp?

I've run in FGs that've zerged soloers. Most of the times I don't help at all, just stand aside, and most of the times I also make clear that I dislike that playstyle. I even got added to CLA's list of people to not group (lawl) when I left their group when they kept zerging a certain SB. So theoretically, I'm not taking part of zerging any soloer, despise of being in the group that is doing it.

That's the difference, you would always keep camping, chasing and kill the soloers over and over again just to get your precious RPs, let me ask, what use do you have of that now?

Exactly, fucking nothing, you just got yourself a dead server. And now you have the balls to blame GOA for not doing anything, oh fuck off.

 

[Esselinithia]

kivik: It is R v R not S v S.

The average RP you earn, when you play RvR as RvR and play it with its designed purpose on mind is pretty balaced, for both sides in sieges, patrolling, etc.

The moment, where you say: "I raher lock out the rest so my RP is higher" and limit your actions to fg, duo, trio, etc. your RP / hour ratio can be higher, and it is an advantage you get due to abusing a design limitation. Luckily it is normally a small advantage.

When you organize fights, make fights limited, try to lock out others, etc. your RP / hour is even higher, your chance for fights with organized zones is even higher, and you try to limit the chances of fun and RP for others by abusing design flaws, cross realm communication and being rude and abusive to others and demanding they should support only you.

Soloers and similar rude PVP people arethe problem on several servers labeled as PVP in several games. Interesting enough when a separate server type is suggested for given playstyles, you don't say: "WOW no more zergs", but say: "It would have the worst rude asses only".

Your greed (and same can be said about duos, trios, etc) ruins the game for most. And if adds ruin some of your fights? Who cares. Also: If we would have more tan half of the people on dyvet at any time (it lost much more than this) as soloers who want fair duels, no amount of zergs would be able to disrupt that. Sadly, you are the minority that causes all kinds of problems.

Why casuals want to group up with competitive people? Because even if you like PVE far more than PVP you need some RAs. And you have exactly 2 options: Joining a such group. Or zerging and adding.

It is a choice of competitive players to decide: They support the former, or force the later. If they force the later, and generally rude they should accept they will be target #1. Why? Most of the PVE types don't like to attack other players, but if you and your m8s were rude and selfish, some payback is allowed.

And it is you who can change this. By playing fairly, trying to be helpful, etc.

 

[Cadelin]

Not counting trios or dous against soloers as zerging is covering your eyes for the truth. You won't get away from the fact that you and your guild will be remember as the worst RP-whore zerging players in Midgard. The guild that was so damn fast to leave when it started getting worse, not enough soloers to uphold your weekly rp?

While I agree with your point, numbers aren't the most important factor. The game isn't balanced around solo fights. Its perfectly possible to have a fair fight with 2-3 low realm rank people on 1 side vs 1 high realm rank person.

Some soloers take the attitude that they are the bottom of the pile, they are free to attack anything that isn't already engaged in combat. They whine when they get steam rolled by more than 1 person but are perfectly happy to gank some player who isn't yet level 50.

I played a healer which is pretty much a group only char but on many occasions I have for one reason or another found myself running around parts of the frontier without a group. I have seen the extremes some "honorable soloers" will go to try and get their RPs.

NF is huge. There will always be plenty of places you can go to avoid people whos playstyles you don't like. The problem was the population was quite low anyway. There wasn't enough fun to be had so when occasionally someone spoilt your fun it became a much bigger problem.

 

[kivik]

kivik: It is R v R not S v S.

Honestly, where the fuck did I say it's a 1v1 game?

The average RP you earn, when you play RvR as RvR and play it with its designed purpose on mind is pretty balaced, for both sides in sieges, patrolling, etc

The moment, where you say: "I raher lock out the rest so my RP is higher" and limit your actions to fg, duo, trio, etc. your RP / hour ratio can be higher, and it is an advantage you get due to abusing a design limitation. Luckily it is normally a small advantage.

When you organize fights, make fights limited, try to lock out others, etc. your RP / hour is even higher, your chance for fights with organized zones is even higher, and you try to limit the chances of fun and RP for others by abusing design flaws, cross realm communication and being rude and abusive to others and demanding they should support only you.

Seriously are you fucking kidding me? If I wanted realmpoints I would, obviously, roll a caster, stuck a DI bot to me and proceed to add and zerg as much as I could, that's the ultimate and EASIEST way to get as much RPs/h as possible. Only FGs farming zergs would yearn more RPs.

Now, if you instist on soloing with a RR4 frostalf shadowblade yearns more RPs you simply haven't played DAoC, because you can't possibly be that thick to believe that. The amount of RPs you get in an 'organized' solo zones we had over FH isn't even close to what you would get normally, soloing. 6 solo players roaming a whole zone for themselves with no communication what so ever isn't exactly the ultimate conditions for maximal RP/h.

Further on, I've never, and I've never heard of my fellow soloers, organize any fights except for those we have had over FH, deciding a zone and a time when to start, wich is perfectly legal, so quit your accusations.

Even further on, DAoC was designed for RvR, yes. And RvR constist of Siege, ZergvZerg, ZergvFg, FgvFg, FgvSolo and SolovSolo. I've simply chosen to perform the SolovSolo part because I like the challenge, while you apparently chosen the others, except for FgvFg, simple as.

And yet I'm the one to get accused for demanding others to only support me by the one who claims my playstyle isn't a part of this game, keep it up!

Soloers and similar rude PVP people are the problem on several servers labeled as PVP in several games. Interesting enough when a separate server type is suggested for given playstyles, you don't say: "WOW no more zergs", but say: "It would have the worst rude asses only".

If that would've been suggested in DAoC, like 1 year ago I would think, yea cool. Because the general DAoC player isn't an unmature, selfish, unpolite kid, like in WoW. But as I said, I think all MMORPGs needs a mix between between the casuals and the more serious player. I don't despise casuals, not only because I'm one myself, but because I only despise players that only care for RPs. Just like you. And of course, there are competitive players that only care for RPs aswell, but they compete in amounts of RPs.

Your greed (and same can be said about duos, trios, etc) ruins the game for most. And if adds ruin some of your fights? Who cares. Also: If we would have more tan half of the people on dyvet at any time (it lost much more than this) as soloers who want fair duels, no amount of zergs would be able to disrupt that. Sadly, you are the minority that causes all kinds of problems.

My greed? Oh dear... you really got a twisted view of soloers, huh?

I'll tell you what it's like, being a proper soloers, is a proof that you give shit about RPs and is as far away from greed for RPs you can get in this game. Being a soloer means you are FEEDING, note: this had nothing to do with greed!, RPs to adders and zergers.

And we are the ones to blame for ruining your game? Yea, probably we are the ones to blame. When most soloers quit Dyvet we definately ruined your game, that's why Saruman's Hand left so early, they couldn't uphold they weekly RP count.

Why casuals want to group up with competitive people? Because even if you like PVE far more than PVP you need some RAs. And you have exactly 2 options: Joining a such group. Or zerging and adding.

You like PvE? You want a few RPs for RAs? Be prepared... FOR THE...

• ASSASSIN MISSIONS!!!!!!!!!!11111

Oh wait, they just don't want a few RA's they want to get tons of RPs, sorry, forgot. Zerging and adding is the way to go guys, hurry! Food is getting cold you see!

It is a choice of competitive players to decide: They support the former, or force the later. If they force the later, and generally rude they should accept they will be target #1. Why? Most of the PVE types don't like to attack other players, but if you and your m8s were rude and selfish, some payback is allowed

And it is you who can change this. By playing fairly, trying to be helpful, etc.

Yes, however I don't see why casual players would need to rely on the competitive to play with them to farm them the RPs?

I mean, anyone can make a decent template easily and go out and play fair and have a blast, just like I did.

You don't have to add and zerg and become the definition of 'greed for RPs' just because you 'need a few RA's'?

I suggest you to stop making up competitive players as the problem of DAoC, it's a two-edged sword. There are clearly some abusive and arrogant competitive players. Just like there are abusive and arrogant adders and zergers.

 

[Faeldawn]

Raquiel mentioned magazine adverts, well I saw one in PC Gamer yesterday and it sums up GOA very well.

The advert (full page ad at that) doesn't even say what DAOC is, if you hadn't heard of it the add would be meaningless. It simply says you can buy a gamecard, 2 months playtime and 3 expansions...thats it. No pictures, no information, zip zilch nada. Reminded me of one of those useless 80's artsy fartsy TV car adverts where you get to the end of the ad and are still unclear as to whether it was an add for a snowglobe or some kind of Japanese deodorant...

So /applaud GOA's marketting strategy, if it wasn't something they have paid for and seem to think will help it would be funny

 

[Bluesky]

In case we get the abilitie of the "Character Transferation" between European Servers, what will happen to our houses?

I thought I read that Requiel said it WONT be a char transfer but "something else" they are working on. This leads me to believe that the only realistic thing it can be is a NF cluster.

Sadly though by the time they pull their collective fingers outta their collective asses there will be almost nothign left on Dyvet. This delay is turning into an even bigger farce than I thought possible

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Sadly.

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

I thought I read that Requiel said it WONT be a char transfer but "something else" they are working on. This leads me to believe that the only realistic thing it can be is a NF cluster.

Sadly though by the time they pull their collective fingers outta their collective asses there will be almost nothign left on Dyvet. This delay is turning into an even bigger farce than I thought possible

other options would be to cluster with some american server/cluster.. myself would gladly pay 5 euro extra for that..

 

[Bluesky]

other options would be to cluster with some american server/cluster.. myself would gladly pay 5 euro extra for that..

Requiel has already said thats not going to happen though.

 

[Esselinithia]

kivik: Glad you made some personal comments, it is time to speak more directly about you:

1st: Using ANY external tools (including MSN, irc, your browser) to give you an advantage in game is illegal. When you designate an area for "solo fights" you make your chances at finding enemies and avoiding groups than without an external tool. Using a 3rd party tool to give you an unfair advantage over other players is cheating, even if you do it the kivik way.
2nd: Communicating what kind of RVR activity will be in a zone, is illegal, not only because it is cross realm communication, which shouldn't happen by game design, but because it can end up by telling people about relic raids, OR telling you will do something complettly different when you want to prepared for it. We both know it is illegal even if you do it the Kivik way.
3rd: Have you seen how much RP some casual players earn when sieging, defending, etc? Have you seen the LWRPs earnable that way? Maybe you should check stats about it, before making attacks.
4th: You say do assassin missions, it means, PVEers, etc. end up in random parts of map. YOU can disrupt their game, kill their fun, etc. BUT if they came back with friends they are the evil zerg. So your agenada. Everyone should respect the arrogant kivik who respects noone, and who only hurts the community. I think noone has any reason to respect you.
5th: More people said: A soloer, who has template, perapred for PVP, has experience, can kill multiple such causal, so if they come in groups, that might still means: chances are skewed in your favor. Claiming you lost the fight because they are zerging is a very lame excuse.

Yes, a lot of daoc players break the rules of the game, in various ways, including account sharing, buying, selling characters, using extrernal programs to improve reacion time in PVP battles and proud of victories earned with this advantage, happily enjoying info from other realms, etc.

Yet, mostly the same people, who are used of the extra odds whine because of adding, zerging, etc. And when they earn 10 more times of RP a week thah casuals who love sieges, etc. they justify their actions by saying "having only few rp, and giving out more" is a good reason for extra chances.

Interesting enoug, the same kind of people are the only ones who would be unhappy if they would play in a server designed for their kind of people only.

 

[Thadius]

1st: Using ANY external tools (including MSN, irc, your browser) to give you an advantage in game is illegal.

Thats masterlevels, dragon raids, pve raids down the hatch then. They all are advantages in the game if im not mistaken

 

[Corran]

says crap.

Setting a zone is not against the rules of daoc. This has been confirmed by Requiel a long long time ago so you really should get your facts straight and stop making huge bullshit assumptions.... oh wait, if you did that then you wouldnt make a single post, that would be nice!

But just to help you out I give you a summary from memory

1) It is acceptable to select an area and place it on a forum for it to be used as an area for certain rvr styles. This is on the following consideration:

a) You do not select a small area
b) You do not bring bots
c) you do not stand about waiting on duels but instead roam.

if parts a-c are not adhered to then action may be taken. This action was noted on the first night when people stopped to watch fights and a dozen high level guards were spawned on the spot and killed them all. After that time the rules were understood and followed.

And you think it is about RP gain? When I used to go to the solo zone i made 1/10th of the rp's i could make by going to seige/zerg and 1/20th of what i could make in a semi decent pug.


Essent... let me ask you this though. How many types of game play have you been involved in?

1vs1?
fg vs fg?
zerg vs zerg?
Seiging?

Until you have links to the each of the types of players then you really shouldn't assume things about them. Once you have had an involvement with each of the subsets then I let you make comments, and seeing them on FH aint having involvement because each group have had their own forums/communication at time where you would actually get to know the people.

...

And if you can not use forums to arrange times/zones for rvr then same rules would have to be abided about for PvE. As in both cases you are trying to maximise your chance of doing something you want. So you would have difficulty setting up raids.
And by the way, I take it from your post you think it is Illegal also to use forums to try set up a relic raid? As this is no different to arranging any other type of rvr except it limits where you would go more. Set a time, a location etc, just like solo zone/fg zone arrangements

 

[tollstore]

Thats masterlevels, dragon raids, pve raids down the hatch then. They all are advantages in the game if im not mistaken

Fail to see your point thad ? People were refering to 3rd party tools to give advantage not in game rewards to give advantage - ML's dragon raids, pve raids are designed to give an ingame advantage by design so there is no problem with them.

Unless i've misunderstood what you mean -- Always a possibility knowing me

 

[Corran]

Fail to see your point thad ? People were refering to 3rd party tools to give advantage not in game rewards to give advantage - ML's dragon raids, pve raids are designed to give an ingame advantage by design so there is no problem with them.

Unless i've misunderstood what you mean -- Always a possibility knowing me

I think that he be refering to the fact that 3rd party tools are used to arrange the raids, and yet this is being differentiated from RvR. Apparently one is acceptable and the other isnt, yet they both bring advantages to the playing field. If we didnt mention PvE raids on a forum how many successful ml's/tough artifacts(talking about when toa was worth doing unlike now)/dragon raids/sidi raids etc etc would there have been? The raids are posted to maximise their chance of doing what want.

So now im on my lunch lets compare what you put in both posts for each type. Maybe do a point system, the one that has the most points has more specific information, going by the "arranging on 3rd party is wrong" the higher the score the worse off it is.


Date : PvE and RvR (0 points each)

Time: PvE - exact time, RvR - Rough time range (1point PvE)

Location: PvE - Exact meeting point, RvR - Zone/Rough area (1point PvE)

Advantage gained: matter of opinion and depends on pve raid - ML's:RA's equal imo so 0 points each


So. PvE 2 points. RvR 0 points.... which means you provide more information via 3rd party tools for PvE raids for equal gain. Read what you want to that but if setting a zone for RvR is "illegal" then clearly this would have to go for PvE raids.

 

[tollstore]

I think that he be refering to the fact that 3rd party tools are used to arrange the raids, and yet this is being differentiated from RvR. Apparently one is acceptable and the other isnt, yet they both bring advantages to the playing field. If we didnt mention PvE raids on a forum how many successful ml's/tough artifacts(talking about when toa was worth doing unlike now)/dragon raids/sidi raids etc etc would there have been? The raids are posted to maximise their chance of doing what want.

So now im on my lunch lets compare what you put in both posts for each type. Maybe do a point system, the one that has the most points has more specific information, going by the "arranging on 3rd party is wrong" the higher the score the worse off it is.


Date : PvE and RvR (0 points each)

Time: PvE - exact time, RvR - Rough time range (1point PvE)

Location: PvE - Exact meeting point, RvR - Zone/Rough area (1point PvE)

Advantage gained: matter of opinion and depends on pve raid - ML's:RA's equal imo so 0 points each


So. PvE 2 points. RvR 0 points.... which means you provide more information via 3rd party tools for PvE raids for equal gain. Read what you want to that but if setting a zone for RvR is "illegal" then clearly this would have to go for PvE raids.

Oh ok I see thanks for clearing that up - However I was under the impression it was not illegal to post rvr raids i.e relic takes.

Although not illegal posting for say a relic raid has one HUGE down side all the other realms can see exactly where you will be at a given time so i suppose by defination that it could be argued to be illegal ? I think it appears to be a very grey area and think that sometimes people maybe get a little to stressed over it all (At the end of the day its a game ).

I also think with the current population so low some people will have very strong views on this issue because it can be a major impact on what can and cant be achieved at any given time.

But hopefully goa will give us some news soon - Until then im just gonna keep posting my pve raids and play other mmorg's when not on a raid .

Lets just hope dyvet can live till warhammer is released and goa can then come up with a pratical solution . I love the game but i'm not going to join another server and grind all my toons upto 50 again regardless of how populated a server is.

My view on it now is just dont stress argue over these issues at the moment.

1. It wont change or stop people doing what they do
2. It will only take your blood pressure up if you get into an argument over it
3. We are the puppets of goa atm they pull all the strings.
4. It's meant to be fun - relax enjoy it and laugh at what you don't like

 

[Imgormiel]

My view on it now is just dont stress argue over these issues at the moment.

1. It wont change or stop people doing what they do
2. It will only take your blood pressure up if you get into an argument over it
3. We are the puppets of goa atm they pull all the strings.
4. It's meant to be fun - relax enjoy it and laugh at what you don't like

I have pretty much the same view. I have some 40 toons already in Euro and I really can't see the point in going to yet another server when I was playing about 5 actively anyway. Next toons i'll be levelling will be bb's but I can't see that happening for some time yet.

 

[Thadius]

Fail to see your point thad ? People were refering to 3rd party tools to give advantage not in game rewards to give advantage - ML's dragon raids, pve raids are designed to give an ingame advantage by design so there is no problem with them.

Unless i've misunderstood what you mean -- Always a possibility knowing me

Essie is saying that telling people you are in a certain area for rvr is an advantage. But them telling the FH people via a forum that a pve raid is going on on say Saturday, thus bringing in more people to do the raid.

Granted its not as big advantage as the rvr one, but its still an advantage?

 

[Thadius]

I think that he be refering to the fact that 3rd party tools are used to arrange the raids, and yet this is being differentiated from RvR. Apparently one is acceptable and the other isnt, yet they both bring advantages to the playing field. If we didnt mention PvE raids on a forum how many successful ml's/tough artifacts(talking about when toa was worth doing unlike now)/dragon raids/sidi raids etc etc would there have been? The raids are posted to maximise their chance of doing what want.

So now im on my lunch lets compare what you put in both posts for each type. Maybe do a point system, the one that has the most points has more specific information, going by the "arranging on 3rd party is wrong" the higher the score the worse off it is.


Date : PvE and RvR (0 points each)

Time: PvE - exact time, RvR - Rough time range (1point PvE)

Location: PvE - Exact meeting point, RvR - Zone/Rough area (1point PvE)

Advantage gained: matter of opinion and depends on pve raid - ML's:RA's equal imo so 0 points each


So. PvE 2 points. RvR 0 points.... which means you provide more information via 3rd party tools for PvE raids for equal gain. Read what you want to that but if setting a zone for RvR is "illegal" then clearly this would have to go for PvE raids.

Exactly what I meant, rep for you!

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

Its a sorry state of affairs when i rate serial bullshitter President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran higher than Requiel in terms of credibility

 

[Thadius]

Its a sorry state of affairs when i rate serial bullshitter President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran higher than Requiel in terms of credibility

Maybe they are one and the same?

Or maybe this is Requiel!

Spoiler

 

[Imgormiel]

Exactly what I meant, rep for you!

Only because there aint enough trolls left on the forum to rep

 

[Esselinithia]

Thadius: it just means, you can relly on /g, /as, usual times, LFG interface, etc. to do them. Since forums, in such cases, doesn't give you too high advantage (without forums, you would find just as much good people with LFG systems) the advantages are limited. The damege done is limited (empty LFG system*), AND the communication here doesn't change how you play on raids. You will still face same problems, same challenges, etc. so difficult doesn't change, so the advantage of the 3rd party tool use is minimal at best.

IF you communicate for soloer zone: Your chances for finding other soloers increase, your chances of getting farmed by other people decrease. The difference in your chances for success are far higher here. (One major difference).

While PVE organization doesn't have much harmful effects for outside parties, unless you fully abaddon LFG system, and finally assembling raids are often done with in game recruiting used anyway, by designating soloer land and trying to enforce it, you limit choices and chances for other players (secound major difference).

While PVE organization doesn't mean cross realm communication or anything that is normally impossible in the game (so you just make the game more comfortable instead of making it easier, so no direct in game advantages) cross realm communication is giving you a direct in game advantage, that isn't earnable in game (yes, cross realm communication). (third difference)

While PVE people would benefit very little from TS, in RVR improved reaction times can be the difference between lost fight and victory quite easily. (4th difference)

And sadly, the rules doesn't say: "you can only use 3rd party tool, when mr corran allows it". It says, they aren't allowed.
Not even if Corran thinks making stuff personal gives him the power to change rules and all.

Also, while for some it is hard to see (at least for Corran, Thadius, and other unintalligent people): Organizing raids IS possible with in game tool so you don't do anything that isn't possible with normal in game tools (and passing the word) AND it doesn't give you -any- direct advantage on the raids, but makes organizing raid -more comfortable only- so the difference is clear.

Mr Corran: Before labelingothers post as crap and posting attacks, etc maybe you should try to be intelligent enough to see this difference. For your 2-0 point, the trick is: IF you are intelligent enough to know, that raids are possible without MSN / FH, and isn't easier with such tools so NO advantages, on raids, so the end result of raid (MLs) aren't influenced by making organizing raids more comfortable.

So in that case you get 0 advantage, for 0 extra chances at communication (you can do them in game anyway) so you get 0 unfair advantages. The rest of the things: You don't use the forum to give more specific details on the web compared what you can do in the game. In case of RvR organization the opposite is true. So in respect of knowing the location, in one cases you have advantage, at other cases you don't.

In case of PVE, if you speak with friends and they pass the word and have a raid organized by purely ingame communication, the members know the exact time, so the out of game means, make it comfortable, but doesn't give you extra advantages. In case of cross realm communication for rvr organization the exact opposite is true. So in case of PVE you have 0 advantage, in RVR you have significant advantage.

But there is one big thing extra: Most casual players don't organize stuff on forum, not even PVE, when they can avoid it. Why? Because they don't take the game as responsiibility, they mostly prefer to use LFG system, /gu, friends lists, etc. to find parties when they are online. So in their case the whole incident doesn't work.

Also look at several dedicated PVE people at cooprative server: They don't need such organization. I still host web sites for casual guilds, and interestingly they are happy to organize stuff in game.

The people who organize RVR battles, use TS to have an advantage in battles, etc. are the ones who organize their MLs on forums. If you are used to unfair advantages you might keep them even when you PVE, but it doesn't make you different.

And interesting enough, other communities in DAOC survive well the so called English community that is defined by people like you have to fight for survival, because it can't keep new players, etc. If it would be as perfect as you think you are, we wouldn't have the population problem now. But sadly neither you, nor the community is perfect, and your behavior that gives you a significant unfair advantage pretty much one of the few things that are different here compared to other realms, and does visible and significant damage.

GOA can't save the servers unless they serparate the likes of you from fair players, or you start to change.

 

[Thadius]

Load of shit.

So your saying kick off those people who have played for years ebcause they dont fit in with your playstyle?

 

[Esselinithia]

The raids are posted to maximise their chance of doing what want.

This is a false statement, for several factors.Not only because your post tries to make impression that ML raids succeed only because they are posted to the forum, we both know several raids that succeed without, so if you try to make such impression to attack some oppinion / person... that only speaks about you. Not only as a player, but as a person as well.

I don't even want to speak much here about who decided to go for the post ways, and point it is mostly the same PVP people who dictate this need who seeks advantages, and several casual communities, and PVE communities work with out it.

But I speak about some bigger problem: LFG system, etc is dead, and most people doesn't look anymore. In case of several raids, the problem isn't: You want an advantage so you decide to use this instead of in game way. But it is some people stoped using the in game way, and force your playing style on you.

If you want people with high RA, competitive template, etc. you are forced to follow their ways, even if you don't want to do, even if you recognize, the working LFG system was better, you don't try to get an unfair advantage, but you try to limit damage done to your gaming experience by the above cheaters.

AND since not all players are capable or willing to do it, and lack of groups makes them leave, it is a deep problem. Since 90% of the people who sees an ad for daoc, anywhere, doesn't know what is FH, how to sign up, how to get PL help, etc. most of them can't enjoy the game and leave. Organizing stuff with out of game tools, and destroying in game motives, organizations, and communities means: You can't keep new players, and you might lose old ones, you your server population will drop.

This use of 3rd party tools is enough to make the problems we see on english servers happen, and this kind of behavior is dominant on these servers only. PVP / PVE difference here is visible, and in PVP you earn more advantages, and people who want to get PVE done quickly for better PVP chances get most of the advantages. (if you come on only a few times to enjoy some PVE adventures and success isn't important you don't go for advantages, but try to join even if others ruined your chances LFG system)

This alone is enough, or more than enough to see why such 3rd party tools are disruptive. But for PVE situations, the benefits of this behavior are indirect and limited, except for some of the most competitive and PVP focused players.

When the spanish server was new, and I helped some newbies and we visited the dark elf castle (in the first cata area) to get some glowies for the newbies (even if I don't speak spanish I enjoyed playing with them) noone cared how many runs we need - it was fun. If you try to have fun in good company, spend time with the game without and pressure to be the first, or to compete, you don't maximize your chances. Some challenge just adds to the fun of it.

Same is true at higher level too. Who cares how many respecc stones I have in the vault? It is enough for many birthday and xmas gifts even if we wipe sometimes But people killed LFG, so the forum is a less fun, and less useful subsititute for many.

 

[Esselinithia]

Thadius: I say, dyvet has problems and even bigger problems at each time, and more and more people leaves. Majority of the people are casual players.

And if you kill the server both for you and for others, you won't have a place to play on anyway. Either you understand that and change, and make sure dyvet survives or GOA should make different server types for people, or help you to recognize the problems.

If GOA gives a new server to casual players, PVE players, who want LFG, happy to help new players, happy to raid only for fun of it, and happy to repeat and aren't competitive, and we get account services (character transfers) wonder which server will have success and attract / keep new players?

The one with leet people, who already destroyed most of their existing environment? or the one where new and old players try to be happy and have fun, and can play for fun of it, and it is kept that way? It doesn't matter which side gets dyvet, which gets anything new. The only way to have high population on the server you play on, if you work hard to make people stay.

And it isn't the 6 leet fg who shoul stay, not the 30 soloer to have high population. But the hundreds of casuals.

 

[Thadius]

Thadius: I say, dyvet has problems and even bigger problems at each time, and more and more people leaves. Majority of the people are casual players.

And if you kill the server both for you and for others, you won't have a place to play on anyway. Either you understand that and change, and make sure dyvet survives or GOA should make different server types for people, or help you to recognize the problems.

If GOA gives a new server to casual players, PVE players, who want LFG, happy to help new players, happy to raid only for fun of it, and happy to repeat and aren't competitive, and we get account services (character transfers) wonder which server will have success and attract / keep new players?

The one with leet people, who already destroyed most of their existing environment? or the one where new and old players try to be happy and have fun, and can play for fun of it, and it is kept that way? It doesn't matter which side gets dyvet, which gets anything new. The only way to have high population on the server you play on, if you work hard to make people stay.

And it isn't the 6 leet fg who shoul stay, not the 30 soloer to have high population. But the hundreds of casuals.

Hmm, the casuals left after TOA. The so called 1337 stuck at it through all the mls and shit. You are always gonna blame it on everyone but yourself.

Just admit it, it cannot be pinned down to one thing.

I think biggest reason why people left is that they are bored. Those who were 16-18 on release are now like 20+, with uni, beer and sex to keep them busy. Its a game, abeit a more grown up one, but people get older and find new things to play with

Other reason are TOA which ive stated and you all like the qq about that!

Server problems, such as the Database crash, made some stuff just pointless, look at Golum Girls guild, decimated after the database crash.

NF may have helped at the start, no designated fg area for those that enjoy it, Agramon was slightly too late I feel.

The playerbase remaining the same also helped. Where is the fun in fighting the same person 5 times in one night for 7 days straight? Whereas the Yanks/Germans have different people to fight, different playstyles etc.

You let it rest Esse. Dont keep dragging it up. Same wth everyone else that posts here, myself included. Yes the server is dire now, GOA havent said anything for past 3 weeks or so. Find soemthing else to do with your lifes. Its summer now, go get drunk outside your local, picnic, anything!

The argument is just gonna keep going round and round, it helps noone!

I hate to see whats its gonna be like when its really hot, server is almost gone when its freezing outside...