Offensive Muslim cartoon!

[FallycSymbol]

Just incase people missed it, the newspaper which published the cartoons DID apologize (although perhaps a bit too late), they were printed Sept. 30th 2005 and the excitement just started recently when different priests returned to their respective countries and "fueled" the muslim extremists. The muslims wanted an apology from the Danish Prime Minister and even the Queen of Denmark, this is against our laws and against the concept of free speach so it cannot take place. 12 pictures were printed in the Danish newspaper, and 3 extra were circulated by radical muslims (more offensive ones, eg. Mohammed having intercourse with a dog). This is when the flag burning began and other newspapers joined in to protect freedom of speech. The sms circulating with the rumor of burning of Qur'ans is also suspected to be circulated by either radical muslims or Danish national-socialists (Nazi's, a very very small percentage of our population). This lead to the burning of embassies.

What the muslims got was an apology from the PRIVATE ORGANIZATION which showed them disrespect, I highly doubt that any Danes intended for this situation to escalate and the large majority disagree with the decision to print such religiously offensive cartoons. There is nothing to do but move on. You will not get an official apology from a state official because it is against the way our society works.

 

[Dukat]

Seems to me that this has very little to do with the cartoons and a hell of a lot to do with the muslims/arabs.

If it was to do with the cartoons why are they burning embassies?

The queen of denmark had nothing to do with the cartoons. The prime minister had nothing to do with those cartoons. The danish embassy had nothing to do with them either, and yet they were still attacked.

The arabs/muslims need to strike out at us any way they can, they've been waiting for a slight excuse for a long while to do something like this, and the cartoons, while perhaps being a signal, are not significant in themselves. Had it of been anything else they could take offense to, the end result would be the same.

In my book cartoons do not constitute an act of war, attacking and burning down an embassy does.

To me this sounds like the first of what will be a long list of nasty unpleasantries that could escalate into something more widespread, which is unsettling.

 

[Bubble]

That would be a ironic start to WW3..
Cartoon starts war.

Amusing thought Dukat.

 

[Lamp]

That would be a ironic start to WW3..
Cartoon starts war.

Amusing thought Dukat.

NP. If there was a Warner Brothers nuclear war, the bombs would be from Acme and would end up targetting the Coyote

 

[Pera]

turkey should never of been allowed to have though about being in the EU in the first place.

im sure these so called muslims have offended other religions too, and probably on purpose.

if the christians stayed as they were all those years ago then we wouldnt have to deal with people like this (and i mean, keep killing people who didnt like them).

i think its obvious that the people we know of publically as being muslim arnt really actual muslims. they are just dick heads trying to use religion as an excuse to kill people.

thats my silver and 99 copper.

hmm I usually am not involved with politics at all, however being a Turkish citizen (now living and working in USA for over 5 years) and a muslim I felt obligated to respond to this post.

In regards to the drawings, and cartoons I think everyone in general in Western World thinking of the issue as drawing of Hz. Muhammed and I am afraid that is not the case. I believe those drawings somewhat gives a message in regards to Hz. Muhammend being a person who encourages terrorism, thus saying that all muslims are terrorists in nature. I am no prof. on racism nor in human rights but I believe that is to the simplist degree is "pure racism". For example, if there were cartoons that are published in Muslim world that showed Jesus Christ in some unappropriate way and gave a message in regards to all Christians saying they are all barbarians without an exception, that would upset a majority of people nor it would be right.

In regards to to the extremist groups and extereme measures of actions that had been taking, that is just simple "provocation". There are people in this world who would do anything and everything for money,power, and some sick logic of thinking. The actions that are being taken are more than likely driven by these type of people and their sole purpose to "provoke" anger and hatred in Western World towards Muslims and NOT a responce to the "Drawings". I am sure the drawings upsetted the Muslim world in general, however as it being said before in here you can't just "stero-type" people and say "all muslims are ignorant and bad people.

A few more words about Turkey and EU. Again, I think there is a streotyping here, as in regards of Turkey being a Muslim country. I don't think any of you had been to Turkey and I am sure what you know about Turkey in general you had learn from News on T.V or newspapers. There is a saying that goes "Don't believe everything you read or see on t.v" and I think it is a very appropriate saying for this situation. Turkey is one of the most similar Eastern Countries in regards to lifestyle and Politics to Western World. It draws more tourists per year than almost any other Western and Eastern Country in the world ( I think 2nd or 3rd most). There are still a lot of progress that needs to be done in regards to human-rights and politics, HOWEVER I am sure that putting Turkey in the same basket as say Iran or Iraq is TOTALLY wrong in every aspect just because It is a Muslim country. Also I think EU needs some "Diversity" in its nature anyways

I am sure a lot of people, especially in Western Worlds, see Muslims in general as "Bad" people. Maybe what they learned from past experiences, or from what they see on tv, or what they read on newspapers. I don't know maybe its just me that thinks "stereotypeing" in general is a horrible think but I think its best if we could all have an open mind.

/cheers

 

[tris-]

Pera,
all thoughts i have on turkey are from my many many visits to cyprus.

maybe its one sided and biased etc, but i chose to believe what i find from there.

i dont believe turkey should be rejected just because its a muslim country. that thought has never enterd my mind untill you made it!

i have also been to the 'other side' of the line, and btw i would like to comment on turkish architecture - fuckin fabulous.

also, i think the art was open to interpretation. i didnt see the cartoons as saying mohammed intices terrorism. you did from what i can tell, but that doesnt mean that was the intention of the cartoons.

 

[Pera]

Pera,
all thoughts i have on turkey are from my many many visits to cyprus.

maybe its one sided and biased etc, but i chose to believe what i find from there.

i dont believe turkey should be rejected just because its a muslim country. that thought has never enterd my mind untill you made it!

i have also been to the 'other side' of the line, and btw i would like to comment on turkish architecture - fuckin fabulous.

also, i think the art was open to interpretation. i didnt see the cartoons as saying mohammed intices terrorism. you did from what i can tell, but that doesnt mean that was the intention of the cartoons.

I think thats wxactly the problem we have when it comes to Christian/Muslim worlds. People tend to believe what they choose to before they get a broader understanding of the opposing values and logic. I can see where you are coming from when you said you had your experience "Visiting to Cyprus". I am not saying that what you have heard during the time you spent in Cyrprus is false knowledge, however I am sure it is somewhat biased based on the past relations of the two countries.

To me, I don't think Turkey has any business in Cyprus, however like I said I don't like politics mainly because it is not "honest" but rather a like chess game (you never know who is a peon and who is a bishop). But take my word on it as being lived in Turkey for 18 years, it is a beautiful country and have some very quality past, people, and agriculture. However, like I said politics is what makes it worst for Turkey.

 

[tris-]

going over the otherside i got to experience some of both sides.

so im not just going totally with what cyprus says, but using knowlegde off each to make my oppinions

 

[haarewin]

Drilling a hole in my head wont releave my head ache by releaseing the demons inside !

no, but it will relieve intra-cranial pressure caused by inflammation or excess fluids in your brain, thus relieving your headache and lessening chances of death!

religion is shit. everyone looks at scientology and laughs - but its the exact same as other religions. it doesnt teach, it brainwashes. you must do this, that, and the other, and when you die you will be rewarded.
well i dont want my reward when i die, i want it while i am alive and can be guaranteed to enjoy it.
it scares me that the christian right in america is leaking to the UK. it scares me that creationism is on the science syllabus in the US. that bollocks belongs in a religious education class, NOT in a biology lesson.

and uh, overreacting muslims blah blah. every time i get told something about my beliefs isnt right, i dont go and torch a bloody embassy. by now, i should have torched the us embassy because of everything that pat robertson has ever said.

 

[Job]

Well the Danish bacon industry is safe I suppose from boycotts, it would be helpful if all Westerners went out of their way to purchase Danish and Norwegian goods, on the grounds that 90% of the Muslim world has combined got less purchasing power than a paperboy (except all the bastards who keep all the oil money) we should be able to sort this out.

Solidarity my people.

 

[noblok]

religion is shit.

Religion does have it's use, sociologically speaking, on both an individual and communal level. Problems arise when religion speaks about things which are out of their reach, such as scientific subjects. That isn't the task of religion though and religious institutes should accept that in a functionally diversified society they only have influence in the 'spiritual domain'.

I'm not a religious man myself, I don't need a greater scheme of things in which everything gets a second, 'greater' sense to validate my existence. I find dismissing religion as shit because it's abused by certain people a bit silly though.

Maybe this going-beyond-it's-borders is inherent to religion, because it speaks about everything. I don't agree with this though. I think it should be perfectly possible to have a religious attitude, without it influencing the other domains, such as science.


P.S. In Dutch there's a word which literally translates to sense-giving. Although it's self-contradictory, I was wondering if there was a similar word in English .

 

[Narzeja]

Well the Danish bacon industry is safe I suppose from boycotts, it would be helpful if all Westerners went out of their way to purchase Danish and Norwegian goods, on the grounds that 90% of the Muslim world has combined got less purchasing power than a paperboy (except all the bastards who keep all the oil money) we should be able to sort this out.

Solidarity my people.

Americans have infact offered the Danes, among other of the boycotted countries to buy the share of products that was supposed to be bought from muslim countries, still no contracts have been signed yet.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Nice unbiased website to pick really..
Please at least get your facts right,
the first crusades happened when the Byzantine Emperor Alexius I requested help from west because he had lost a large portion of his empire to the Seljuk Turks,who the Turks today are the descendats of, (the Seljuk were the ones that stopped the Mongols invading Europe) later on losing all of the Byzantine Empire (meaning all of Asia Minor was lost).
It was nothing to do with religion, religion was an excuse used to gather support in the West, and then later in the east.
Both armies raped pillaged and plundered, both armies were there for the sole purpose of their leaders gain not religion.

Lol think its you who needs to get your facts straight, Emperor might have asked for help, but considering the Roman and Eastern churches had mutually excommunicated each other in 1054 I don't think the request would have carried much weight since the first crusade wasn't called for till 1095. The reason why Urban II called for a crusade was because the Turks had closed Jerusalem to pilgrims, the city had been held my Muslims since 638 but they had had the sense to allow access to Christians and there had been no crusades, funny coincidence that. Thus the first crusade held the possibility of opening up the pilgrimage routes, reuniting the churches and reclaiming the holy land. If it had just been down to helping the Eastern church the crusade wouldn't have happened.

As for the Turks stopping the Mongol invasion of Europe . . . Mongols did invade Europe and got to gates of Vienna when their Khan died and they turned back.

As for your assessment that both crusader and muslim leaders were there solely for their own profit and not due to any religious conviction. To argue that the leaders had no religious motivation is far too simplistic and isn't supported by events. Certainly some of them might may have had their eye on a bit of looting and conquest, but to argue that the leaders from both sides were not religiously motivated in any way is plain naive. I might not find muslim radicalism very attractive, but I at least give them credit for having true beliefs, misplaced though I feel them to be and there were definately some christian leaders about at the time who believed in what they were doing as well.

You should also note that the comment was with reference to any military action in the region by western forces being met with certain groups going on about crusaders in the region and christian conquest and how this is actually double standards considering how a lot of the spread of Islam in the period was achieved.

As for the website, biased it maybe. However, just because something may be biased does not mean it is untrue, my father lived in Saudi for 13 years and knew a number of priests who had come into the country to give mass to christians in the country (not convert) and who were put in prison and deported. Hardly tolerance at work.

 

[Where TheHellAmI]

ewul!

 

[liloe]

The problem is that such a thing brings out the bad people on both sides.

Those who make such films accept, that they will taunt the extremists, who will then make OTT comments. Then they can point with the finger at the complete group to say "oh look how intollerant and barbaric these people are".

Media is about getting attention and those who get the most of it win. The business looks rather simple. People nowadays have nearly seen everything, so it's rather hard to present them something new to shine with, so the alternative seems pretty clear. You need to show people something that will shock them, connected to recent events or appealing to their social behaviour. Muslims have been in the center of action for quite a long time now, so it's quite obvious that people act and think differently when talking about them. They have been shown to us as the villains by the media and so we are easier about accepting bad stuff concerning their way of life and by listening to their words we just try to find a proof that we are right.

At the current state we're not trying to get information about them, we're trying to find more arguments how to doom them. A shiny view about things is unpopular. Let me give you an example. Have you ever seen a movie about a person's brilliant life, only success, nothing bad? I haven't and I doubt such a movie even exists. Why? Because we want to see people in peril. We want to see people with all their flaws so we can point and say "oh look at them, they're so much worse". It's that easy, the worse, the more interesting.


So, back to that cartoon. We have a group of people who want to make a cartoon to show another group of people in a very bad light and to get the highest result, they pick the people who will react with the biggest éclat ( noticed that those who cry and yell get teased even more in the schoolyards? same thing here ). Of cause the "targets" react like in the prediction and start yelling insults over.

Wow....object achieved for the producers, the target group looks like total dumbasses. Well....or let's see, who are the real dumbasses. It's ofc a minority of people whose actions will be reflected on the complete group. We all know it's wrong, but we like it, don't we? At least we can be sure who are the bad guys.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. Forgive me if some stuff sounds confusing...look at the clock =)

 

[Chronictank]

Lol think its you who needs to get your facts straight, Emperor might have asked for help, but considering the Roman and Eastern churches had mutually excommunicated each other in 1054 I don't think the request would have carried much weight since the first crusade wasn't called for till 1095. The reason why Urban II called for a crusade was because the Turks had closed Jerusalem to pilgrims, the city had been held my Muslims since 638 but they had had the sense to allow access to Christians and there had been no crusades, funny coincidence that. Thus the first crusade held the possibility of opening up the pilgrimage routes, reuniting the churches and reclaiming the holy land. If it had just been down to helping the Eastern church the crusade wouldn't have happened.

If he didnt lose most of his kingdom to lose it all later, there would be no crusade, it happened because they were afraid of losing Asia Minor. Religion was an excuse to rally support it has nothing to do with why the war started in the first place. You admit yourself the Muslim's held Jerusalem since 638 yet they waited till 1095 to do any military action.. or was it just a big coincidence..

As for the Turks stopping the Mongol invasion of Europe . . . Mongols did invade Europe and got to gates of Vienna when their Khan died and they turned back.

Ghengis Khan went up via Russia, sorry rea dit back and was meant to say stopped them invading via the Black sea, Ghengis Khan went via Russia not Turkey

As for your assessment that both crusader and muslim leaders were there solely for their own profit and not due to any religious conviction. To argue that the leaders had no religious motivation is far too simplistic and isn't supported by events. Certainly some of them might may have had their eye on a bit of looting and conquest, but to argue that the leaders from both sides were not religiously motivated in any way is plain naive. I might not find muslim radicalism very attractive, but I at least give them credit for having true beliefs, misplaced though I feel them to be and there were definately some christian leaders about at the time who believed in what they were doing as well.

I didn't say it was the sole reason for the Crusades, i said it was the main reason for the crusades. How can you deny that the trigger for the Crusades was to regain Asia Minor

 

[Jimmi]

the muslims that demonstrate are the crude and primitive ones. "the mob".
You will find that most of the high imams(priests) do not support their actions, and infact condemn this bevahiour.

 

[Dandare]

Have you ever see any Muslim write about Jesus in this way?" he asks.
That comment made me laugh to be honest.
Have you ever seen a christian walk into a train station and blow himself up?

 

[Raven]

I didn't say it was the sole reason for the Crusades, i said it was the main reason for the crusades. How can you deny that the trigger for the Crusades was to regain Asia Minor

and a bit of revenge for spain being a muslim country for so long (the moors) but back then they were pretty civilised in comparison.

 

[Chronictank]

Have you ever see any Muslim write about Jesus in this way?" he asks.
That comment made me laugh to be honest.
Have you ever seen a christian walk into a train station and blow himself up?

i have seen "christians" wipe out entire countries from the comfort of the whitehouse,
I have seen "christians" manage to kill thousands, and make areas of a country uninhabitable aswell as crippling the ofspring of the residents for years to come

does that count?

And you would think after all the topics that have been posted here you would have worked out by now that suicide bombers aren't true muslims despite how deluded they are, in Islam it is 'haraam' (forbidden) to commit suicide (like in Christianity) or to take innocent lives. I duno how they are brainwashed into thinking they are right. But then i dont know their personal circumstance so who am i to judge them

 

[Dandare]

i have seen "christians" wipe out entire countries from the comfort of the whitehouse,
I have seen "christians" manage to kill thousands, and make areas of a country uninhabitable aswell as crippling the ofspring of the residents for years to come

does that count?

And you would think after all the topics that have been posted here you would have worked out by now that suicide bombers aren't true muslims despite how deluded they are, in Islam it is 'haraam' (forbidden) to commit suicide (like in Christianity) or to take innocent lives. I duno how they are brainwashed into thinking they are right. But then i dont know their personal circumstance so who am i to judge them

Don't believe in fuck all myself and proud, I guess my comment was a little blase without reading the entire post.
But read what you put and think about it, think about the countries were this happened and what these own people did to there own people, I do agree that one mans egotisical attitude messed it all up, but it had to be done and thats why 3 of my family members went out from the UK.
Bush was a joke, and made a mess of the entire thing.
Before getting on your soapbox try living near Bradford and you'll know exactly what I mean.

 

[Chronictank]

Don't believe in fuck all myself and proud, I guess my comment was a little blase without reading the entire post.
But read what you put and think about it, think about the countries were this happened and what these own people did to there own people, I do agree that one mans egotisical attitude messed it all up, but it had to be done and thats why 3 of my family members went out from the UK.
Bush was a joke, and made a mess of the entire thing.
Before getting on your soapbox try living near Bradford and you'll know exactly what I mean.

i live in Slough so its pretty much the same thing, but replace x ethnic minority with asylum seekers and chavs.
But i dont go judging a whole religion/culture/people because of the actions of a few

 

[Dandare]

i live in Slough so its pretty much the same thing, but replace x ethnic minority with asylum seekers and chavs.
But i dont go judging a whole religion/culture/people because of the actions of a few

Neither do I and even have asain friends and work with quite a few.
But you've just judged Yorkshire as being full of chavs and asyslm seekers?
Hmmmm, where do they come in? Down South
Hmmm where did the term and look of a chav originate? Down South

 

[Chronictank]

Neither do I and even have asain friends and work with quite a few.
But you've just judged Yorkshire as being full of chavs and asyslm seekers?
Hmmmm, where do they come in? Down South
Hmmm where did the term and look of a chav originate? Down South

im not judging them, all i stated was that instead of x people in the visible majority like in Bradford, there is x people visible majority in Slough, not berkshire (slough isnt in yorkshire ) not england as a whole but Slough.

 

[Dandare]

im not judging them, all i stated was that instead of x people in the visible majority like in Bradford, there is x people visible majority in Slough, not berkshire (slough isnt in yorkshire ) not england as a whole but Slough.

I know Slough is'nt in Yorkshire thats where I am

 

[Chronictank]

I know Slough is'nt in Yorkshire thats where I am

pft misunderstood me, i said Slough has loads of chavs and assylum seekers not yourshire ><

 

[Ashala]

Have you ever see any Muslim write about Jesus in this way?" he asks.

when the spokesman said this, why did he automaticly assume that the author of the drawings was Christian in belive, it always seems like (atleast to me) that they wonna make it look like muslims vs the rest of the world or atleast muslims vs chrstianity

i might be wrong here tho...

 

[Dandare]

Did you? Sorry must have misunderstood you then and some new cockney slang
not berkshire (slough isnt in yorkshire )

Anyway gonna get off the subject mate because it's touchy one for me and don't wanna get banned again for saying something stupid
So I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Dandare]

when the spokesman said this, why did he automaticly assume that the author of the drawings was Christian in belive, it always seems like (atleast to me) that they wonna make it look like muslims vs the rest of the world or atleast muslims vs chrstianity

i might be wrong here tho...

Very right, could'nt the drawing be done by a catholic?
My stepdad is one and he fully admits his belief is the most bent religon there is?
opps I said I stop posting on this

 

[Lamp]

People have been arguing and fighting over / about religion for the past 5000 years, and will continue doing so for another 5000 years.

"Mankind is an interesting word. There's not a lot of kindness in man...We kill each other with impunity, we have no respect for life, our communities are filled with drug pushers, child molesters, and football hooligans. We destroy our natural environment, we kill animals to extinction, and our children are born into this without the previous generation taking any responsibility to improve it for the future. " (Source: Sir Molton Singh)