need help

[Cadelin]

Quite why you carrying on with this i dont understand so i'll say it yet again; someone cheated, got cought, got punished. End of story.

This is not the end of story. If it was the end of the story this thread wouldn't have been created and you wouldn't have posted in it.

Someone cheated, got caught, got punished. They then questioned if some of there punishment was fair. Alot of people including yourself posted irrelevant remarks about how any punishment was fair despite no one actually knowing what the offence was:

It may seem unfair to lose 14 million rps but then again if RP farming did take place as it looks then imo its just about one of the most sad, pathetic and lame things its possible to do in DAoC aswell as being against the CoC and personally im amazed all accounts involved weren't perma banned.

I was just trying to defend Shivhae's right to get a proper explanantion, which at the time I believe she hadn't had. She has now had a proper explanantion so can we let this die?


Finally, any fight that is arranged (in anyway) away from the zergs has the POTENTIAL to be manipulated. I am not saying they are just that it is possible because you know that your fight is much less likely to be added on.

 

[Maeloch]

re: the agramon thing. It's been stated b4 publically, on these forums, by one of the GMs, that specifying you'll be roaming a zone during a certain time is NOT against the CoC. Obviously, there's a line somewhere that can be crossed, but that alone ain't it.

Other point, is can't believe someone with a rr11 toon on an account be so daft as to use it or the other toons for rp farming. Just stupid risking all that, nm the rights and wrongs of it. It's so easy to spot, so little gain for all the risk, and on an account whose playstyle means some will practically cum themselves reporting u.

 

[Tuthmes]

re: the agramon thing. It's been stated b4 publically, on these forums, by one of the GMs, that specifying you'll be roaming a zone during a certain time is NOT against the CoC. Obviously, there's a line somewhere that can be crossed, but that alone ain't it.

Other point, is can't believe someone with a rr11 toon on an account be so daft as to use it or the other toons for rp farming. Just stupid risking all that, nm the rights and wrongs of it. It's so easy to spot, so little gain for all the risk, and on an account whose playstyle means some will practically cum themselves reporting u.

idd.

 

[brad]

There is no point in making any other assumption though.

1) Lets assume the valk was involved in cheating. Then everybody agrees its right to punish it. Why would shivhae even be posting? Not many people knew she had been banned. She could have just "moved to Avalon". Its not like you will ever win any sympathy on FH.....

2) Lets assume the valk wasn't involved. Now it makes a more interesting case as to why it had its rp removed. Shivhae also has a rr10+ healer which wasn't(?) affected and probably some other chars with decent realm rank. If you think it was fine to removed the rp from one char why is it not correct to remove all of them? Who decides what a fitting punishment is and is it right for that decision to be arbitrary?


Nate; I wasn't disgareeing with a playstyle I was simply pointing out that those playstyles could easily involve the same amount of RPling which some people still don't seem to get so I will spell it out.

Team/Player A vs Team/Player B
In one night they fight 5 times and A wins every time. Some fights are close but the end result is that A gets all the realm points. With a decent realm rank group thats 15k-20k RP(total) per fight or 75k-100k for the evening which is the equivalent of alot of bridge zerg farming.

Now I reckon that from an 8 man group 1 player could comfortably "allow" his team to lose vs certain opponents. Picking bad targets, breaking mess, failing to heal etc etc. That would also be effectively impossible to prevent/detect. Similarly with 1v1 you can "forget" you have purge up etc.

This IS an unavoidable problem when you have zones where the players try and regulate the game play and why "strictly speaking" it is against the CoC (although GoA have said they won't ban people for arranging agramon monday etc).

The difference is in 1v1's the different players always wish to win. That in no was is rp farming if player A die's every single time and player B wins. Just because player A died several times does not make it rp farming. Rp farming is when you have 2 seperate accounts chain farming each other which you both control. That is in essence cheating am i right?

And why would a player in a set 8v8 grp chose to let his grp die he wouldn't. Your posting pintless drivile trying to defend a person that deserves to have his account band. If you cheat you face the consequences fair and sqaure, regardless if your chars are on a different account. You still own them therefore you should be punished hardly regardless.

And less being hostile to bluesky tbh.

 

[Bluesky]

This is not the end of story. If it was the end of the story this thread wouldn't have been created and you wouldn't have posted in it.

Yet again you miss the point. My first post was my own opinions based on the screenshot posted on the RvR forum. At that point i saw no other direction this thread could go. To me it was all over and done with and i think the punishment was just. Then you brought up the ridiculous arguments about agramon nights and asked why weren't all my accounts perma banned. You think I would not respond to that to try and point out the differences between agramon nights and organised premeditated rp farming?

Someone cheated, got caught, got punished. They then questioned if some of there punishment was fair. Alot of people including yourself posted irrelevant remarks about how any punishment was fair despite no one actually knowing what the offence was:

ok then lets get down to the crux of it shall we. In my opinion this thread was created because Shivhae didnt like part of her punishment but agreed with some of it. Only Shivhae and GOA actually knew what had happend 100% and it turns out Shivhae lied about her involvment with teh rr11 valk OR let her account be used by someone else to breach the CoC. This was proved when Requiel posted saying no characters are touched unless they are directly involved with an incident. My opinion still stands that the punishment was indeed fair and i was happy for it to end there. Because you disagree with me you then brought up ludicrous arguments and based theories on "if's" and "maybe's". This either proves you dont understand the difference between "Agramon nights" posts and rp farming or just like to play devils advocate.

I was just trying to defend Shivhae's right to get a proper explanantion, which at the time I believe she hadn't had. She has now had a proper explanantion so can we let this die?

You can defend Shivhae all you like and thats your right to do so. Imo she already had a "proper explanation".

Finally, any fight that is arranged (in anyway) away from the zergs has the POTENTIAL to be manipulated. I am not saying they are just that it is possible because you know that your fight is much less likely to be added on.

Oh dear you STILL dont get this do you. I AGREE WITH YOU ARRANGING FIGHTS IS WRONG so let me quote myself from last night:

So in summary "arranging a fight" is not the same as saying "our group is running in agramon tonight" and that is my specific point.

This whole shambles is just yet another sad episode but i guess it won't be the last one of people breaking the CoC or cheating etc. Opinions vary wildly on what is right and wrong, or what is lame and honourable in the game but with so few people (or even with lots) there is enough space and virtual real estate for all views to be played and aired in the world of Dark Age of Camelot so long may it continue (within the CoC)

 

[brad]

well at least your RR suits your ability now xDDDD


brings a whole new meaning to the term powerowned

hehe lol raven.

 

[Ati]

I got soul but I'm not a soldier <3

 

[Dr_Evil]

IF she didnt do this herself then its pretty much irrelevant as she is responsible for her own account and if other people use it to their own ends then its still her responsibility and saying the person who used it (if it isnt Shivhae) should be punished is ludicrous. She or someone using her account used several of her chars including a rr11 valk then cheated, got cought and then punished - its really THAT simple.

It's still way too harsh a punishment, it's like cutting your hand off or making you spend a year in jail for shoplifting. Doesn't make Goa's system less flawed in my eyes.

According to Requiel only chars involved with breaking the CoC would be penalised which yet again suggests this was not a single incident but somethign done on multiple characters.

Still wasn't something that Shivhae did, and still she doesn't know who did it or what actually happened. What Requiel said proves nothing, and he still haven't told Shivhae what happened, she still gets punished for something she doesn't even know about happened.

Oh and to say "I hope you choke on it. Would make the world a better place" implies to me you would like for me to choke and die. I hope this somehow isnt what you meant.

That is ofcourse not what I meant literally, and you know it. I also don't honestly either think you brought popcorn from this or found it any amusing irl. (Maybe Requiel did though.)

Why would this be considered cross realming ? unless ofc as Golena says you were in the same place at the same time taking part in actions which are against the CoC.

Like this then?

i have arranged a few 1v1 fights over IRC/FH/Vent, nothing wrong with it, they certainly weren't RP farms, both players playing to win etc, all it did was save time in finding each other.

there is a huge world of difference between duel logging and RP farming and arranging a fight between two players trying to win. if the sotg crew want to start bitching about arranging fights, it happened a lot in the time of castles/knights and whatever.

Or if for example my brother played his animist and camped a bridge that he knew I was gonna cross with my savage, and placed enough shrooms there to kill my savage when I came too close. And I got annoyed at him, and went looking for him, but he killed me again and again maybe 5-6 times before I finally managed to kill him. If this got reported to Goa, and they found that we were both at the same IP, wouldn't that look suspicious?

Yet again you are someone who seems to take thigns to extremes and i fail to see why so lets reiterate:

One or more characters on Shivhae's account (which she is responsible for) was used to take actions against he CoC and were penalised accordingly. Thats it. Plain and simple. Its nothign to do with FG fights, my (insert random relative) playing behind the same router as me or anything else

It's the punishment that is extreme, and they're punishing the wrong person. She is a victim because of the flaw that Goa made her responsible for an action she didn't know about.

 

[Dr_Evil]

In the end, Shivae is a very nice person, playing for fun, and doing alot for the realm. But she made a bad call here, either by borrowing her account to someone else, or breaking the rules. Unfortunatly the only one to punish is the one that owns the offending account.

So to Shiv if she is reading this: Its unfortuante, but chin up, hope you see it as a new challenge to keep playing even though its a bad blow. I for one would hate to see you leave the game!

With my best regards

/Charmangle

I totally agree.

 

[Nate]

If it wasn't Shiv playing the account, she shouldn't of given away her account details..that is also against the CoC. So how does her letting people borrow her account give her reason to assume it wasn't her fault the valk lost all it's realm points?

 

[Cadelin]

Yet again you miss the point. My first post was my own opinions based on the screenshot posted on the RvR forum. At that point i saw no other direction this thread could go. To me it was all over and done with and i think the punishment was just. Then you brought up the ridiculous arguments about agramon nights and asked why weren't all my accounts perma banned. You think I would not respond to that to try and point out the differences between agramon nights and organised premeditated rp farming?

I saw that screenshot on RvR forum too. It did not show the valk online. Unless you have some other screenshots there is no way you could say that you thought the valk punishment was obviously fair. Yes it was your opinions but shivahe didn't ask for your opinions went creating the thread she asked for help getting a proper explanantion.

I did NOT bring up any ridiculous arguments about agramon. You twisted my words and then claimed I was saying everyone who plays on agramon should be perma banned. It was you bringing up the ridiculous arguments.

You also claimed that I was using all these if and buts and maybes. I was simply trying to look at both sides of the situation. I was trying to take into account all possibilities, unlike alot of people who's opinions were made up before this thread was even created.

I pointed out the fact that RP farming is not always one person logging in mutliple accounts and killing himself at some quiet place at 3am. You then took this as some kind of personal attack on yourself, you started flaming me and avoided answering any of the more important points of my posts.

 

[SkarIronfist]

The problem is none of us have seen the logs that the game provides to the server admins. But even I could come up with relatively simple internal checks, to flag dubious situations.

Now, given that rp farming has been around a long time. I would imagine, that when a person is killed the following appears in a log.

Account,Char,IP,Operation,Account,Char
x1991212,001,192.168.001.001,KILL,x1992777,009,192.168.001.002

I would expect that its then a simple matter to parse the logs for comparision sub net masks, both dynamically or historically. Basically 2 pcs in the same area, a common setup for those at home.. Thats for those who stupid enough to RP Farm with 2 machines on the same network.

Also since I know RP farming is going on, I would deal with situation of 2/3 people killing each other in a circular fashion. I would create logs or allocate a memory segment on a per character basis of the last x kills on that character, storing account/char/ip. The server may well flag an incident if it sees the same account killing another account repeatly. This may well request a GM goes and has a look at it. Oh yes, I would write that log to disk, to be reloaded if the person thought by logging out he was clearing his kill list. so your log is ongoing record between sessions.

Maybe I would include a time stamp, to identify repeated rez's. There is a limit to how many times you can die and be rez'd cure res sick in 5 mins

Basically no one know sh!t about what records are stored, logs are created and streamed to disk while we play, also how long those records are stored. But really we are talking text files which can be massively compressed.

But once a issue like RP Farming is discovered. Its not really rocket science to create tools to internally monitor a situation.

I am sure we could run our data through sites to mask our ip addresses, but really the accounts you use, mark you. So even if you are being slightly clever and do that, the same accounts are repeatly killing the same people. I not sure the tools are really that advanced. Since Solos create situations where what I discussed earlier could happen and be flagged, but all that is necessary is for a account to be flagged for futher investigation.

 

[Sigwyen]

So in summary "arranging a fight" is not the same as saying "our group is running in agramon tonight" and that is my specific point.

Hey not often i disagree with u but in my book that is exactly the same .. just with different words

Cuz the reason ur stating that 1 grp is running in agramon is to get other grps to state that aswell so u can have fg fights there that evening and enjoy that part of the gaming oppertunity

not saying its a bad thing like rp farming just stating that i would concider it arranging fights if i had to make a statement

/Mirk

 

[joap]

For obvious reasons I can't and won't comment on the specifics of this case.
To answer some questions and clear up some misconceptions I'll make the following points.

• There is no appeal beyond the GMs. My team are answerable to me and I have the final say on what is fair or not.
  
  We never take action against a character that was not involved in an incident of wrongdoing. Only accounts and characters that were directly involved are punished.
  
  We also only take action when faced with direct evidence. Nothing happens based on guesswork or assumptions. We are not obliged to share this evidence with you as we reserve the right not to make public the ways in which we catch cheats.
  
  I've looked through the various RightNow histories for this incident and I can't see anything from our side that could be construed as us admitting one of the affected characters wasn't involved.

You may now continue with the popcorn.

Requiel,

It is indisputable that GMs manage the game as they see fit, and that you as head of the English GMs have the final word.
I'm not arguing against that.

However, ending a message with You may now continue with the popcorn is, in my opinion, somewhat unprofessional of you.

 

[SkarIronfist]

Hey not often i disagree with u but in my book that is exactly the same .. just with different words

Cuz the reason ur stating that 1 grp is running in agramon is to get other grps to state that aswell so u can have fg fights there that evening and enjoy that part of the gaming oppertunity

not saying its a bad thing like rp farming just stating that i would concider it arranging fights if i had to make a statement

/Mirk

But Sig there is a huge difference, the outcome of the fight is not predetermined. When you fight another group or zerg. The outcome cannot predictated. The points could go to anyone.

RP farming is where the outcome is not in issue, the points are going to a specific character in a specific account.

I am sure you can appreciate this rather large difference.

This is where solo's fighting is not rp farming. Though an rr1 vs rr11 could be classed as one sided. But at least the rr1 is trying to win.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

It's still way too harsh a punishment, it's like cutting your hand off or making you spend a year in jail for shoplifting. Doesn't make Goa's system less flawed in my eyes.

If you get caught shoplifting, they either throw you in prison or ban you from the shop, either way they remove your privaledges, she still has the toon, just not all the toys anymore.

Still wasn't something that Shivhae did, and still she doesn't know who did it or what actually happened. What Requiel said proves nothing, and he still haven't told Shivhae what happened, she still gets punished for something she doesn't even know about happened.
That is ofcourse not what I meant literally, and you know it. I also don't honestly either think you brought popcorn from this or found it any amusing irl. (Maybe Requiel did though.)

How many times do you hear "it wasnt me radaring, it was my megameight!", or "I gave my m8 my details and the bastard emptied my account and renamed all my toons pissinthewind", we only have that persons word that "they didnt do it", and more often than not its a lie covering the fact they dont want to look a complete tool. GOA say dont lend accounts, heres a prime example why.

Like this then?Or if for example my brother played his animist and camped a bridge that he knew I was gonna cross with my savage, and placed enough shrooms there to kill my savage when I came too close. And I got annoyed at him, and went looking for him, but he killed me again and again maybe 5-6 times before I finally managed to kill him. If this got reported to Goa, and they found that we were both at the same IP, wouldn't that look suspicious?

Yes, dont do it, it looks bad and tbh no one can tell if you are lying and actually farming, your word against the evidence as seen by the entire RvR population and GOAs logs.

It's the punishment that is extreme, and they're punishing the wrong person. She is a victim because of the flaw that Goa made her responsible for an action she didn't know about.

ROFL, Shiv like most long term players know RP farming is wrong, and account sharing can be extreemly risky, sorry, but thats like saying to an adult that crossing a motorway blindfolded is perfectly safe during rush hour. Again, no one would come to a public forum shouting "IM A CHEAT BUT I GOT CAUGHT AND I THINK ITS NOT FAIR QQ" would they, well except Gimley. From people I know who spotted this happening, its been going on for a long time, and not just a few days.

 

[Case]

Stripping away a few rp`s isn`t exactly harsh, he should think himself lucky that he didn`t get banned for blatently breaking the CoC and EULA. In my humble opinion he has been treated extremely fairly and leniently he should be overjoyed that he still has his account active and doesn`t have to completely start again.

Only chucking my 2 penneth in cos I love to see cheaters caught and punished it reafirms my faith in GOA as a company capable of running a multi national mmorpg.

 

[Cadelin]

But Sig there is a huge difference, the outcome of the fight is not predetermined. When you fight another group or zerg. The outcome cannot predictated. The points could go to anyone.

RP farming is where the outcome is not in issue, the points are going to a specific character in a specific account.

I am sure you can appreciate this rather large difference.

This is where solo's fighting is not rp farming. Though an rr1 vs rr11 could be classed as one sided. But at least the rr1 is trying to win.

The difference is not in the arranging though, its in the effort put in. In RP farming as in Agramon nights both "sides" agree to be in the same area and the same time.

The difference occurs when they actually fight. In RP farming one side puts in no effort or possibly helps the other side by sitting down etc. In the other situation both sides try as hard as they can. However the results COULD be identical. For EXAMPLE: My agramon group would probably always lose against some of the better groups if they were still running even if everybody was trying there very best. Its not the same as us sitting down and feeding them RP but it has the same effect.

Now if you also consider that some fights due to class balances etc are always going to be one sided. Then its perfectly possible for someone to subtlely but effectively RP farm.

 

[Bluesky]

I got soul but I'm not a soldier <3

hehe an awesome song by The Killers - i love it which is why i used it in my first movie

 

[SkarIronfist]

Now if you also consider that some fights due to class balances etc are always going to be one sided. Then its perfectly possible for someone to subtlely but effectively RP farm.

Cadelin,

In an infinite universe everything is possible. But basically you are questioning the basic tenants of the game, classes, realm ranks etc. So if I understand you correctly I can now expound that into...

Mythic are actually supporting RP farming by the manner of classes and ras that each realm has got.

OR

By running the group to Beno bridge I am now rp farming albs.


Just refocus on this thread, which was someone was proven to have used a number of accounts in a manner that broke the CoC to the satisfiaction of the GMs using data and resources which we don't have access to.

 

[Nate]

Now if you also consider that some fights due to class balances etc are always going to be one sided. Then its perfectly possible for someone to subtlely but effectively RP farm.

Your making these posts very vague, by saying RP farm there are you saying that for example; if a Sorc had 5 random tank classes fight him one after another and he killed them all, that the sorc would be breaking the CoC because he knew he would win the fight as his class is able to kill them quite easily and effectively farming these warriors?

 

[Dr_Evil]

If you get caught shoplifting, they either throw you in prison or ban you from the shop, either way they remove your privaledges, she still has the toon, just not all the toys anymore.

Not really, they will just make you pay for that fruit in your pocket. "Are you gonna pay for that apple in your pocket? Oh yes, sorry forgot." I don't know what country you live in though. Stripping her main char for all her 14 million rp's is exactly the same as deleting the character, or banning her account. The result is exactly the same - her quitting the game. Way to harsh for something she didn't even do.

How many times do you hear "it wasnt me radaring, it was my megameight!", or "I gave my m8 my details and the bastard emptied my account and renamed all my toons pissinthewind", we only have that persons word that "they didnt do it", and more often than not its a lie covering the fact they dont want to look a complete tool. GOA say dont lend accounts, heres a prime example why.

If someone should suddenly hate you, for example if you had a girlfriend who played DAOC and for something she think you've done or something, I'm sure she would be able to find a way to log into your account and arrange something like this and get it reported to Goa. I'm also sure you would find it unfair and that you would hate the person who did it to you. Also I'm sure you'd want a better explanation from Goa, when you don't even know who did it.

Yes, dont do it, it looks bad and tbh no one can tell if you are lying and actually farming, your word against the evidence as seen by the entire RvR population and GOAs logs.

You see the flaw, don't you?

ROFL, Shiv like most long term players know RP farming is wrong, and account sharing can be extreemly risky, sorry, but thats like saying to an adult that crossing a motorway blindfolded is perfectly safe during rush hour. Again, no one would come to a public forum shouting "IM A CHEAT BUT I GOT CAUGHT AND I THINK ITS NOT FAIR QQ" would they, well except Gimley. From people I know who spotted this happening, its been going on for a long time, and not just a few days.

Still I don't think you would sit there and say the same if it happened to you, or one of your friends.

If it wasn't Shiv playing the account, she shouldn't of given away her account details..that is also against the CoC. So how does her letting people borrow her account give her reason to assume it wasn't her fault the valk lost all it's realm points?

Even for that, the punishment was way too harsh. Also in my country it's normal to get a warning for any first offence minor crime instead of a terrible punishment (like jail or decapitation), maybe a small fine for example. Unless we're talking about rape or murder, wich we aren't. This system works fine, Norway are one of the countries in the world with lowest crime rates. Compare this with the crime rates of for example USA, wich has if not the highest, one of the highest. As you also know they have terrible terrible punishments, and people there would rather kill someone to try avoid those punishments if they get accused for something.

In Norway you might actually have a chance taking GOA to court for something like this since we have very strong consumer laws here.

 

[Karmatika]

/careface to this all tbh!

Saying its unfair is saying : Ok you can cheat! Think about that!

 

[Bluesky]

It's still way too harsh a punishment, it's like cutting your hand off or making you spend a year in jail for shoplifting. Doesn't make Goa's system less flawed in my eyes.

Thats your opinion which you are entitled to. It is however not mine and for the record in some countries thats precisely what can happen to shoplifters. Taking it to this extreme i think is futile though.

Still wasn't something that Shivhae did, and still she doesn't know who did it or what actually happened.

And precisely how do you knwo this? I presume you are taking her word for it but anyway the point is her ACCOUNT(s) were used in a way which breaks the CoC. As has been said if she didnt do it herself (which only she knows 100% not YOU or anyone else here) she is still RESPONSIBLE for all actions done by all characters on that account.

What Requiel said proves nothing, and he still haven't told Shivhae what happened, she still gets punished for something she doesn't even know about happened.

Quite the contrary. What requiel said is imo quite plain and simple: a character on an account was used to breach the CoC and was directly punished accordingly. GM's decision is final. Accept it and move on in the knowledge that the account is still in use rather than being permanently banned.

It's the punishment that is extreme, and they're punishing the wrong person. She is a victim because of the flaw that Goa made her responsible for an action she didn't know about.

I really can't understand why you are not grasping a basic principle here. See my second paragraph above.

 

[charmangle]

Why would GOA allow and link to their homepage a forum, which they post on, with an RvR Discussion section if what you say is the case? It is however, against the CoC to communicate with other realm players about current/on-going events, which may give an unfair advantage to the receiving realm..and thats so far what I have seen regarding that subject which has been given attention by mods/gm's.​

Youll have to ask GoA about that!
(I can make a qualified guess ofc
First of all, the PvE section is very important for the basic run of the game. Secondly the Communication in the RvR section usually dont coincide with the CoC rules. But giving the other side information about any movments of your realm (including yours) is against the CoC according to how GoA have put it down.

Not that it matters since, GoA have chosen to only use ingame proofs for offences. So the question is rather moot dont ya think?

/Charmangle

 

[Dr_Evil]

Thats your opinion which you are entitled to. It is however not mine and for the record in some countries thats precisely what can happen to shoplifters. Taking it to this extreme i think is futile though.


And precisely how do you knwo this? I presume you are taking her word for it but anyway the point is her ACCOUNT(s) were used in a way which breaks the CoC. As has been said if she didnt do it herself (which only she knows 100% not YOU or anyone else here) she is still RESPONSIBLE for all actions done by all characters on that account.


Quite the contrary. What requiel said is imo quite plain and simple: a character on an account was used to breach the CoC and was directly punished accordingly. GM's decision is final. Accept it and move on in the knowledge that the account is still in use rather than being permanently banned.


I really can't understand why you are not grasping a basic principle here. See my second paragraph above.

It's Goa who took it to this extreme, not me. Their CoC and system is flawed, and I don't believe their every word without a single hesitation. The account is no longer in use to her. Everything is not black or white.

 

[Bluesky]

I saw that screenshot on RvR forum too. It did not show the valk online. Unless you have some other screenshots there is no way you could say that you thought the valk punishment was obviously fair.

Going from Requiels post its very clear as he states that "We never take action against a character that was not involved in an incident of wrongdoing. Only accounts and characters that were directly involved are punished." So then i take from that combined with Shivhae's first post that MULTIPLE characters were used to break the CoC. She openly admits to accepting the punishment given to one character. After GOA's investigations the only conclusion can be that the rr11 valk was used in either the same or additional actions to warrant the punishment of stripped rp's

Yes it was your opinions but shivahe didn't ask for your opinions went creating the thread she asked for help getting a proper explanantion.

Shivhae perhaps unwisely openly admitted on this public forum her accounts had broken the CoC and been punished with a 1 week ban which she thought was fair. She actually reported what had happened to her and wished to escalate the issue higher than GM level but as has been stated by GOA the GM has the final say. To post the content she did and not expect the issue to be discussed is incredibly naive.

You then took this as some kind of personal attack on yourself, you started flaming me and avoided answering any of the more important points of my posts.

At what point was i flaming you? I discussed and debated issues with you which is hardly flaming. You directly asked me the question "Why aren't all your accounts perma banned too then Bluesky" to which i responded and imo quite clearly showed that my preferred way to rvr (fg fights in agramon) is nothing at all in any way similar to premeditated organised rp farming. You obviously cant see the difference but thats not overly important as GOA do see the difference as they have stated publicly.

 

[Bluesky]

Hey not often i disagree with u but in my book that is exactly the same .. just with different words

The very important point tho Sigwyen is there is a difference and that was precisely my point. Some people have understood the difference and some don't or won't accept it. GOA do see the difference though and imo thats the most important thing.

 

[BlackrazoR]

I did try reading the ridiculous number of posts which the 6 active Mids left on cluster have posted . Team Conclave! Less arguing and more rp-PLing yourselves on us! Then I can report you and beat you as a RR1 Group .

 

[Tesla Monkor]

I did try reading the ridiculous number of posts which the 6 active Mids left on cluster have posted . Team Conclave! Less arguing and more rp-PLing yourselves on us! Then I can report you and beat you as a RR1 Group .

LOL