need help

[SkarIronfist]

Sorry but if a person has rp farmed on one character, then that implies that they could have done it on another character on the same account.

Simple rule is Don't cheat.

 

[Ilovetonuke]

but its kinda get of topic the discusion

all shiv or me need is a email or even phonenumber to set in a complain about GOA / Rightnow there service so either there management or director so me or shiv can contact them.

if some1 can help us with that we would apriciate it alot.

i can tell you guys 1 thing that owner and player behind Shivhae the RR11.5 valk has nothing to so with the incident that took place.

GOA said that they investicated the RR11.5 valk and said that that toon was not involved.

and to give a player a punishment for something she did not do is wrong.

and if ppl seen screenshots where are they then ? i havent seen them and GOA also dont want to say in what why they did it like its been reported or stuff like that and in what way they because i can also play with Photoshop and make nice screen shots it aint that hard.

 

[Ilovetonuke]

The rp's where not cheated she did not use a bug she was only been accused and the accusement was not right and still they punished her

 

[Lethul]

haha, my faith in GoA is almost restored

 

[Appollo]

The rp's where not cheated she did not use a bug she was only been accused and the accusement was not right and still they punished her

Wasnt there a SS?

 

[Vodkafairy]

My account got a 7 day bann for it and the toon involved also has been punished wich is nothing more then fair.

The rp's where not cheated she did not use a bug she was only been accused and the accusement was not right and still they punished her

the punishment is fucking harsh, but I can't help having to smile for reasons irrelevant to this thread.

& rightnow is the way to contact goa, you get in touch with the gms there and I don't think you can find anyone higher up in the company, nor will they question the gms judgement

 

[Eleasias]

noob got owned lols

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Maybe I'll sound like an asshole here, but at least for that Valk I know it will not matter if it runs as a RR1 one or RR11 one and I don't mean that as an insult, certain players have certain limitations and I am for sure among them. Still...

 

[Ilovetonuke]

Wasnt there a SS?

I asked that aswell but GOA did not gave me an awnser on that

 

[swords]

A players account is his or her own responsibility. Its something which has been said for years and year and years.

 

[Bluesky]

and if ppl seen screenshots where are they then ? i havent seen them and GOA also dont want to say in what why they did it like its been reported or stuff like that and in what way they because i can also play with Photoshop and make nice screen shots it aint that hard.

The screenshot was posted in teh RvR forum and was later removed by a moderator. It appeared to show rp farming with 3 characters involved with one of them seemingly to be very obviously owned by Shivhae. It's my GUESS that if its true then GOA investigated and found one of the named characters on Shivhae's RR11 valk's account. As Shivhae clearly states in the intial post:

last week 1 of my toons got involved in something thats against the CoC.
My account got a 7 day bann for it and the toon involved also has been punished wich is nothing more then fair.

So then she (or someone using her account which she is totally responsible for as she doesnt admit she did it herself) knowingly did something against the CoC and received a 7 day ban which she thinks was fair punishment.

I really dont see any reason for a debate or appeal. Someone cheated/broke the CoC, then got caught and then got punished in a likeminded manner.

It may seem unfair to lose 14 million rps but then again if RP farming did take place as it looks then imo its just about one of the most sad, pathetic and lame things its possible to do in DAoC aswell as being against the CoC and personally im amazed all accounts involved weren't perma banned.

 

[Stallion]

well...

be glad that;
#1 you dont have to buy a completely new account
#2 you can stil play your account for the time you actully subscribed to.
#3 you dont have to roll a new toon all over, and for that case all the toons you had and stil want.

be sad that;
#1 you look to be a major sucker in the eyes of many..

Merry X-mas!

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Well Staj, triple loging toons to x-realm farm them or running the best group farming Warders and Vaktens, it's the same difficulty .

Scnr...

 

[Bondoila]

The rp's where not cheated she did not use a bug she was only been accused and the accusement was not right and still they punished her

Havn't you seen the ss ? Was pretty obvious!
Im pretty supprised that the acc didn't get a perma ban.

 

[Sigwyen]

I really dont get your argument here mate. It is proven that it is his account. Therefor the entire account is him. And YOU do get punished for a crime YOU make. Where did the family reference come from? That would be the same as punishing all the guilds accounts or something, not all characters on 1 account. He is his ACCOUNT not the toon he is presently playing.

Ofc you cant assume he has made the same abuse on other characters on the same account, but thats irrelevant, he is is the account and its the account that is getting punished.

/Charmangle

Hmm that family reference was prolly over the top my point is though that 1 toon got cought cheating and its fair to punish that 1 as i see it ... punishing all toons seems harsh as ppl owning the accounts can change and stripping 12 to rr1 is a big thing .... ofc if more than 1 toon got cought its fair to punish those cought ...

much similar to " found guilty so ur punished" ..
Those toons not involved should be left with a warning ...

Meaning if ur dumb enough to do it again all will get punished ... and should u be a total ..... then ur account will be perma banned ....

If u punish all instantly its like US politics with zero tolerence ..
its just a game in my book ...

Some argue that if u done it once ur likely to do it again .. same arguing exists in rl ... well what about 2 chances ? ppl can change in my book and the punishment should fit the crime in my book atleast on the first offence..

/Mirk

 

[Alan]

but its kinda get of topic the discusion

all shiv or me need is a email or even phonenumber to set in a complain about GOA / Rightnow there service so either there management or director so me or shiv can contact them.

if some1 can help us with that we would apriciate it alot.

i can tell you guys 1 thing that owner and player behind Shivhae the RR11.5 valk has nothing to so with the incident that took place.

GOA said that they investicated the RR11.5 valk and said that that toon was not involved.

and to give a player a punishment for something she did not do is wrong.

and if ppl seen screenshots where are they then ? i havent seen them and GOA also dont want to say in what why they did it like its been reported or stuff like that and in what way they because i can also play with Photoshop and make nice screen shots it aint that hard.

If both characters were on the same account - then there really is no leg to stand on.

a person is responsible for their account and the actions of characters on that account, if one breaks the CoC (and admits it in this thread) then im surprised the account wasn't terminated completely. You do not get 8 chances to cheat in this game.

If they were different accounts then /poke to GoA

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Christmas comes early this year :touch:

 

[Cadelin]

It may seem unfair to lose 14 million rps but then again if RP farming did take place as it looks then imo its just about one of the most sad, pathetic and lame things its possible to do in DAoC aswell as being against the CoC and personally im amazed all accounts involved weren't perma banned.

Why aren't all your accounts perma banned too then Bluesky. Infact everybody that takes part in agramon nights, or in solo duels etc. What about those people who sit down when they don't want to fight, they are allowing people to kill them more easily, should be perma banned imo....

Even with a screenshot/fraps its incredibly hard to prove RP farming. They have no way to prove they were being controlled by the same person etc. In situations like this the GMs have to be fair with their punishments because reasonable doubt will always exist.

If what has been said by Shivhae is true then it does seem like the punishment is unfair. Why remove the RPs on the valk? Shivhae has other high RR chars. If they thought offence was bad, they could have cleared the RP on all her chars, or as you said perma banned the accounts.

If for example you were found to have emote spammed or something and given a short ban for it that would be fair. What if they also removed your dragon kill stats? You have broken the CoC, GOA can do what they like with your account etc etc. Alot of people wouldn't care about something small like that but we know thats something you have worked hard to get and it would probably really annoy/upset you.

 

[charmangle]

Hmm that family reference was prolly over the top my point/Mirk

I get your point, I dont agree though!
The problem here is that there are things that can hurt the game mechanics, that the creators of the game have deemed impossible to entirely remove from the game. Therefor they have instead instated rules to regulate those game destructive actions.

Now, when someone (which is the same as an account, not the person) willingly and knowingly break those rules, they are ruining the game. And if we all did it, the game would be unplayable and pointless. Therefor the rules are also accompanied by punishment, and the point of those punishments are to make people think twice before breaking the rules. Therefor the punishment has to be something that a person would dislike alot so they dont even try to break the rules. Also, you cant have a warning system, because that just means people break the rules till they get caught, then they stop. And since you rarly get caught, it would bring us back to a ruined game again if all did it.

You seem to distinguish between a toon and an account. That is not something you can do in a game like this, since the rules clearly state that you should not split accounts with other people, we have to assume that the one playing on a toon beloning to a specific account is the same person that is the registered payer of that account. Hence a person is his account. Not just each toon by it self.

You were arguing about the severity of the punishment and making a comparison to real life. Well in real life when you break a rule/law, you are mostly given a punishment more severe than the benefits from the crime. For example, if a person robs a bank, he will not just get to pay back the money he stole, but also added penelty money + usually severe jail time.

Again the punishment has to be alot harsher than the benefits from the rule break. Or it is worth the risk of breaking the rules.

If a player has found a way to level instantly to max level, this is clearly ruining the game. And simply warning that person, will make everyone else do the same and the server will have gzillion lvl 50 chars before it can be fixed.

Also just reducing the char to lvl 1, will make everyone try it out, and alot of them getting away with it. Since the penelty is just equal to the benefits.

The only way of actually making people obey the rule is then to let them know that they will loose things that they have really worked for, or even paid for.

Unfortunatly, as they say, if you did the crime, be prepared to do the time.!:/

I myself, would much rather, that people understood that breaking the rules willingly and delibretly is bad for everyone including them. Be a little less shortsighted so to speak! Then we wouldnt have to have punishments!:/

/Charmangle

 

[Bluesky]

Why aren't all your accounts perma banned too then Bluesky. Infact everybody that takes part in agramon nights, or in solo duels etc. What about those people who sit down when they don't want to fight, they are allowing people to kill them more easily, should be perma banned imo....

You seem to either find it amusing to throw irreverent nonesense my way or do you actually believe what you're saying here?

How is a fg vs fg fight (in Agramon or anywhere else) or for that matter a solo fight in any way similar to using 3 accounts to farm rps voluntarily killing the same person over and over. A FG fight is 8 different people fighting 8 different people and a solo'er fighting a solo'er is 1 person vs 1 person who BOTH want to win. This is VERY different to voluntarily getting killed.

Even with a screenshot/fraps its incredibly hard to prove RP farming. They have no way to prove they were being controlled by the same person etc. In situations like this the GMs have to be fair with their punishments because reasonable doubt will always exist.

Oh dear you really are clueless to come up with this drivel. You think GOA cant track IP addresses of the 3 clients that got used and any communication/actions between the chars? Think for 1 minute WHY GOA stripped the RP's from the RR11 valk. Maybe, just maybe they DO have the proof you (wrongly) think is so hard to obtain.

I could be wrong but for GOA to strip 14 million rp's from someone they have a damn good reason and/or proof of crossrealming/cheating/farming and bearing in mind Shivhae has already admitted chars on her account have done something against the CoC do I really have to spell it out to you?

If what has been said by Shivhae is true then it does seem like the punishment is unfair.

I disagree. Shivhae admits to her chars doing actions against the CoC and as such has been punished. The issue here seems to be she doesnt like the punishment. I say if you knowingly cheat - you pay the price and imo the 3 accounts should have been banned for what is a sad and pathetic way to spend time in this game.

If for example you were found to have emote spammed or something and given a short ban for it that would be fair. What if they also removed your dragon kill stats? You have broken the CoC, GOA can do what they like with your account etc etc. Alot of people wouldn't care about something small like that but we know thats something you have worked hard to get and it would probably really annoy/upset you.

Again you come up with a non-sensical argument taken to an extreme. Emote spamming is usually a heat of the moment thing and although I guess people that have done it knew it was wrong they may have had the "red mist" and did it anyway through frustration BUT to knowingly farm rp's in a premeditated manner is a VERY different thing alltogether.

Also why, i have to ask, do you bring up things i haven't done and wouldn't do? To bring up an argument based on "if's" and "maybe's" is totally futile. The point is Shivhae's characters broke the rules and got punished accordingly and I personally think GOA could have treated this incident with a more severe punishment.

 

[Stallion]

Well Staj, triple loging toons to x-realm farm them or running the best group farming Warders and Vaktens, it's the same difficulty .

Scnr...

never said anything about that, but theres a big difference dont you agree?

well deserved imo

 

[Cadelin]

The one important part:

Think for 1 minute WHY GOA stripped the RP's from the RR11 valk. Maybe, just maybe they DO have the proof you (wrongly) think is so hard to obtain.

Assuming shivhae is telling the truth, they agree the RR11 valk was NOT involved.

A GM specifically targetted one part of the account why?

They can punish the offending chars.
They can suspend the entire account.
They can terminate the entire account.
These are all fair punishments depending on the type of offence. However they didn't do this and I would like to know why they choose to punish the valk too? They knew it was Shivhae's main and would really upset her. Its no better than any other ingame griefing.



P.S. Oh and Blue, everytime Nate and Ozill let you die, they are giving away free RPs. Except of course just before you dinged rr11. They let you die there because they hate you. (clearly this is entirely serious!)

P.P.S I have a better beard than you too.

 

[Nate]

I think you not agreeing with a playstyle which is totally legit is quite unrelated to the thread Field, please try and keep it on topic. I don't even know why you came at blue with that in your previous post..

 

[adoNix]

Lolol that blows.

 

[Nuxtobatns]

so...its defo rp PLing ?

 

[Bluesky]

Assuming shivhae is telling the truth, they agree the RR11 valk was NOT involved.

Imo thats a big assumption based on the fact she openly admits on a public forum to breaking the CoC/cheating and accepting her punishment was fair on one char.

Also who is to say at what point the rr11 Valk was or was not involved now or in the past with activities like this? Think about it. Shivhae is quite vague regarding exactly how her valk was involved and it looks to me like her words in the first thread are her own interpretation rather than a direct quote from her Rightnow reply. I guess only she and GOA know the absolute truth about this issue.

A GM specifically targetted one part of the account why?

They can punish the offending chars.
They can suspend the entire account.
They can terminate the entire account.
These are all fair punishments depending on the type of offence. However they didn't do this and I would like to know why they choose to punish the valk too? They knew it was Shivhae's main and would really upset her. Its no better than any other ingame griefing.

Do you seriusly think they would strip 14mill rps just to "really upset her"? More likely it was deemed as a fitting punishment for her rule breaking.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

I would think the punishment is to have a deterrant meaning as well. If you use accounts to PL a character in Realmpoints and only the character involved would run a risk, then it wouldn't be much of a deterrant at all.

You can't delevel a RR1 char that keeps getting killed, and the PLing would problably mean the enemy character that gets moved back to RR1 wasn't very high to begin with, so zero threat, really.

If however ALL the characters on ALL accounts are affected, you will think twice before pulling a stunt like that. I guess that this is what happened here. It's just bad luck that the character was a fairly visible one, which might have added to the decision to move it back to RR1, as much as a punishment for the owner as as a warning to the rest of the players.

--

Official way to communicate to GOA is through RightNow. While I'm sure you can figure out a phone number or email address of others, I doubt that that will help much - since it's the same people that handle the RightNow requests.

 

[Karmatika]

Some guy Arpee farming his own accounts. Lost all. GG Goa!

does this about wraps it up!?

 

[Golena]

my point is though that 1 toon got cought cheating and its fair to punish that 1 as i see it ... punishing all toons seems harsh as ppl owning the accounts can change and stripping 12 to rr1 is a big thing .... ofc if more than 1 toon got cought its fair to punish those cought ...

You just keep walking right into it don't you.

Accounts can't change hands!
E-baying an account is against the CoC.
Giving an account to a mate is against the CoC.
2 people playing different characters on the same account is against the CoC.

If it's not the one original owner playing the account GOA are perfectly within their rights to ban the account on the spot just for that alone.

A much better analogy to your family thing would be complaining that only your hand was holding the knife while you stabbed someone to death, so why did my entire body get sent to jail.

It's called a punishment. When you break the rules of society you get punished. If you think the CEO or director of GOA is going to give even the slightest hint of concern to the whines of some cheater in a game because they got caught, then your very very mistaken and it really is time to go sample what the real world is all about.
Rightnow lets you talk to the GM's. You don't need to talk to anyone above them, because those people simply couldn't give a crap, and rightly so!

 

[Cadelin]

Imo thats a big assumption based on the fact she openly admits on a public forum to breaking the CoC/cheating and accepting her punishment was fair on one char.

There is no point in making any other assumption though.

1) Lets assume the valk was involved in cheating. Then everybody agrees its right to punish it. Why would shivhae even be posting? Not many people knew she had been banned. She could have just "moved to Avalon". Its not like you will ever win any sympathy on FH.....

2) Lets assume the valk wasn't involved. Now it makes a more interesting case as to why it had its rp removed. Shivhae also has a rr10+ healer which wasn't(?) affected and probably some other chars with decent realm rank. If you think it was fine to removed the rp from one char why is it not correct to remove all of them? Who decides what a fitting punishment is and is it right for that decision to be arbitrary?


Nate; I wasn't disgareeing with a playstyle I was simply pointing out that those playstyles could easily involve the same amount of RPling which some people still don't seem to get so I will spell it out.

Team/Player A vs Team/Player B
In one night they fight 5 times and A wins every time. Some fights are close but the end result is that A gets all the realm points. With a decent realm rank group thats 15k-20k RP(total) per fight or 75k-100k for the evening which is the equivalent of alot of bridge zerg farming.

Now I reckon that from an 8 man group 1 player could comfortably "allow" his team to lose vs certain opponents. Picking bad targets, breaking mess, failing to heal etc etc. That would also be effectively impossible to prevent/detect. Similarly with 1v1 you can "forget" you have purge up etc.

This IS an unavoidable problem when you have zones where the players try and regulate the game play and why "strictly speaking" it is against the CoC (although GoA have said they won't ban people for arranging agramon monday etc).