Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Driwen]

is WoW or EQ2 gonna support french/german servers, as if they arent than 90% of GOA's customer wont leave. Also I doubt that 50% of the UK servers will leave, as generally lots of people only leave for a short moment than find out that the game wasnt that good and come back.
The RvR in wow could be bad or the cartoonstyle gfx might get people irritated, dunno something will probably make enough people return and stay. And to get cheaters back is just stupid, you banned them for a reason they either cheated multiple times or used some 3rd party program to cheat, which means that in either case if you invite them back they are likely to do it again (people might change, but usually not much within a year). Besides that the amount of cheaters isnt going to be that big I think and if you unban cheaters than normal people wont come back and there will probably be more normal people who are willing to return than cheaters.

Also the heaviest punishment GOA can hand out is a perma ban, possibly radar is worse to them than macro crafting. However both is worth a perma ban as if you give less for any of the two than you are recommending people to actually do it. Ooow just go macro craft get to lgm and get some mp's and than we just suspend your account for 7 days and possibly reset your craft. So then the risk of macro crafting is getting a warning and your craft reset, I would think that the risk is worth it for a new crafter.
A punishment should contain more than what the person gained/might have gained. So deleting all characters on the account might be tough enough, but then the owner of the account will probably leave for good aswell.

 

[Bracken]

hmmmm I was still not afk.
I have been banned for being afk while using a macro that you convinently changed to the 3rd party thing after i pointed out to you i was not afk..

You used a 3rd party programme and you got caught. Personally I think you should have got a few days ban. However, not only is termination harsh (especially when you see what Mythic have done with radar users) but I also can't see that you've actually broken the EULA. They need to make the EULA clearer to be honest, its all a bit fudged. I also think they should enable in-game crafting macroing so that you dont need to use a 3rd party programme

 

[Driwen]

You used a 3rd party programme and you got caught. Personally I think you should have got a few days ban. However, not only termination is harsh (especially when you see what Mythic have done with radar users) but I also can't see that you've actually broken the EULA. They need to make the EULA clearer to be honest, its all a bit fudged...

so the punishment for getting a few plat and 500 point of some craft is 7 days of suspension? Not saying that Juj did that, but you cant know how much he cheated and he would have gained lots of plat (and crafting points if he could gain it) if he hadn't been caught.
Also mythic is only suspending the radar users in those two waves, because they have a new way of finding out and are just giving a few warning shots to people who dont believe they can be caught now. Just a reminder that the risk/reworth for radar using is changed. Besides that mythic and goa are two different companies and that mythic might go to immediatly banning radar users after this.

 

[Meduza]

Why would there be a lawsuit on their hands? You click the [Accept] button on the EULA every time you play, and after 1.70 it states that you agree to them searching for applications which interfere with the game.

Just becuz one agrees doesnt make it legally binding !!! Donno what part of the world ur from, but in Denmark agreemernts doesnt overrule legislation !!! Called consumer rights from where im from !!!

 

[Aussie]

can anyone explain me what unfair advantage you get from macro crafting

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

The big difference here is that I like any other crafter was preasant and active during the whole crafting process.
Using the macro didnt acctually speed things up because i was using a static value that had to accomodate for new items, which meant that the button was beeing pressed a little while after each "ding".
All the macro did was make the game more comfortable for me, and stop me from pressing the button twice in a row and cancel the item i was crafting (Gawd i used to hate that!)

But as I said the big difference is the afkness. A macro under non afk circumstances is like any other 3rd party program that improves the game experience without effecting or harming other gamers.

so let me get this right....... your partner asked you to dress your son ?

and because u were crafting you decided to alt tab ... find the program that macro's ...... downloaded it .. installed it.... and then programmed it to macro for you . whilst you dressed your son ? LMFAO get real .you got caught CHEATING deal with it. and stop making exscuses u was afk(but at keyboard) for only a few seconds,

yes imo MAYBE perm ban was a tad much ... but end of the day u cheated and u got punished.. the less cheats in this game the better!

some people spend hour after hour after hour crafting the legitimate way . u didnt. . so instead of whinging cos u got caught and banned and then blaming them for handling it wrong. just admit you were wrong n got butt fucked for your own cheating.

 

[Feyd]

Why would there be a lawsuit on their hands? You click the [Accept] button on the EULA every time you play, and after 1.70 it states that you agree to them searching for applications which interfere with the game.

Can you say invasion of privacy? - that is illigal in all countries i believe unless you have a court order saying other vice.

How can they search for applications which interfere with the game?
Only by either:
1) checking ALL files on your computer (logicly not an option - would take hours to start DAoC then)
2) checking what programs your have running while DAoC run?

Now i dont think anybody would be interested in goa knowing what programs they have running?
Porn screen savers, various warez, file sharing utils, or even a macro program that you use for legitimate things - YES a macro program can be used for legitimate things, i doubt macro programs was invented after DAoC was made.

but afaik the way the "radar detection" thingy of mystic works by taking a dump of your memory/programs running when DAoC crashes and then send that file to them when you log back on.
Just like what Microsoft ASKS PERMISSION to everytime a program crashes.
How ever M$ askes for every instance, and does hide it way down in some license agreement that noone ever reads.

If that is correct then i will have to make a batch file that deletes that file before i start DAoC.
Not because i cheat, but who knows what that file contain? it could contain passwords for your homebanking if you were using that while alt-tab out of daoc and that got it to crash.

 

[NeonBlue]

.If that is correct then i will have to make a batch file that deletes that file before i start DAoC.
Not because i cheat, but who knows what that file contain? it could contain passwords for your homebanking if you were using that while alt-tab out of daoc and that got it to crash.

LOL !!

 

[Meduza]

It most certainly would have my pr0n pass' then

Those must not fall in the hands of evil!

 

[Meduza]

Tbh I think Juj should get his account re-opened. Fact is he cheated. But I bet 90% og all crafters nowadays run macro programs, in some sort. Juj used a poor macro program who completes a task every X sec making it very easy for GOA to spot him using log files etc. Other crafters uses a better macro program who varies the interval between each "click" and GOA wont ever have a chance of finding those. And dont say, that they can PM them and if he dont reply, then he is macroing! (might just dont wanna talk to ppl) And dont say, that they can make a screen pop-up he MUST answer too, and if he dont, then he is macroing. (might be in other room pressing key after each "pling")

Juj got caught cuz he used a poor macro program. But to perma ban him is utter stupidity, cuz others uses macro programs too, and wont ever be caught! I most certainly agree on perma ban to cheaters, if ALL of the cheaters can be found! If only 1 here and there, then most certainly NO!

I think the GM handling his ban should apologies for the perma-ban and reactivate Juj's account!

IMO!

 

[Danya]

Tbh I think Juj should get his account re-opened. Fact is he cheated. But I bet 90% og all crafters nowadays run macro programs, in some sort. Juj used a poor macro program who completes a task every X sec making it very easy for GOA to spot him using log files etc. Other crafters uses a better macro program who varies the interval between each "click" and GOA wont ever have a chance of finding those. And dont say, that they can PM them and if he dont reply, then he is macroing! (might just dont wanna talk to ppl) And dont say, that they can make a screen pop-up he MUST answer too, and if he dont, then he is macroing. (might be in other room pressing key after each "pling")

Juj got caught cuz he used a poor macro program. But to perma ban him is utter stupidity, cuz others uses macro programs too, and wont ever be caught! I most certainly agree on perma ban to cheaters, if ALL of the cheaters can be found! If only 1 here and there, then most certainly NO!

I think the GM handling his ban should apologies for the perma-ban and reactivate Juj's account!

IMO!

That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. At the risk of over-dramatising it's like saying "we won't put criminals in jail unless we can get ALL the criminals!" If you do that sort of thing, it leads to anarchy, not a better game.

 

[Juj]

so let me get this right....... your partner asked you to dress your son ?

and because u were crafting you decided to alt tab ... find the program that macro's ...... downloaded it .. installed it.... and then programmed it to macro for you . whilst you dressed your son ? LMFAO get real .
.

Yes that is more or less what happend... your forgetting im a programmer by trade.. what might take others hours/minutes, I can do in seconds.

 

[NeonBlue]

Yes that is more or less what happend... your forgetting im a programmer by trade.. what might take others hours/minutes, I can do in seconds.

then sorry....u deserve the ban....downloading 3rd party software to aid/alter the game in anyway....isnt allowed

simple as !

 

[Juj]

then sorry....u deserve the ban....downloading 3rd party software to aid/alter the game in anyway....isnt allowed

simple as !

However it is still NOT against EULA

Lets get several points very very straight.
1. Juj was using an automated key press program to do an individual key press, not a macro program.
2. The EULA (the legal part of the document) states programs that interface with the game. The tool he was using is a windows application that interfaces with windows, not the game.
3. The EULA is weak. It might be water tight in French, but it is open to abuse in English.
4. Just because the ToCs are refered to in the EULA, that does not mean they are legally binding, that is of course, unless French law differs from UK law on those ares (there are differences in the legal systems).

Also the grounds for Termination were wrong...

"Using a macro program to craft while afk"

Too many loose ends to justify a insta perma ban...
Especialy when you think about the other guy named in this thread that used a speedhack or somthing that directly effects other players and was given a temporary ban and is now back in the game...

 

[NeonBlue]

However it is still NOT against EULA



Also the grounds for Termination were wrong...

"Using a macro program to craft while afk"

Too many loose ends to justify a insta perma ban...
Especialy when you think about the other guy named in this thread that used a sppedhack or somthing that directly effects other players and was given a temporary ban and is now back in the game...

GOA have said time & time again that 3rd party programs aint allowed and u use them...it will result in a ban...and u do so at ur own risk

End of the day...its GOA's servers...and they can terminate ur account whenever they like....so even if the EULA isnt water tight...they got u covered by other ways

cant get any clearer than that tbh


the speedhack guy if i remember rightly was banned for months..and has only recently come back...though ur right on 1 thing...i dont have a clue why he is back ingame...or should i say his account

 

[Juj]

GOA have said time & time again that 3rd party programs aint allowed and u use them...it will result in a ban...and u do so at ur own risk

cant get any clearer than that tbh

You obviously dont fully understand the EULA or dont know how to read legal documents...

The EULA is VERY weak..

 

[NeonBlue]

You obviously dont fully understand the EULA or dont know how to read legal documents...

The EULA is VERY weak..

i couldnt give a flying fart about the EULA tbh...the simple fact is...that GOA have informed the community that 3rd party software that interferes with the game will result in a ban

thats good enough for me...if u need to download software to make ur gaming easier for urself...then in my book...

ur doing it on purpose
ur trying to gain an advantage over others
ur not playing the game as it was intended
ur altering the game mechanics
ur cheating

end of!

point is...if u hadnt cheated / got banned in the 1st place...u wouldnt be calling the EULA weak...coz u would have no need of it !

why do ppl who have got banned always have to whine about getting banned?

simple solution is dont fecking cheat in the 1st place !

 

[Krakatau]

Juj, you got caught with your pants down, and still you fail to see it

As of your programming skills uke:
Got rats ass to do with the fact that you DID INDEED use a third party program.

And YES, I do feel sorry for you in a way...
They say Jjura is back after a suspension from speedhacking - and you seem to get permabanned...
Maybe the proportions are wrong - but PLEASE don't keep defending the use of your macroing...

And hello Neonblue

 

[NeonBlue]

And hello Neonblue

hello mate

 

[Meduza]

A speed-hax0r is back and Juj is perma-banned ???

Wtf is wrong with these stupid idiots ???

did the speed-hax0r give a BJ to the GOA staff or what ??! seems likely if using a macro gets a perma-ban, and using speed-hax only gives some time off!!!

Indeed, the proportions in this is wrong, and if Req and the others rly cant see this, then they r even more dumber IRL than a 6-yr old on crack!

(sry for abuse of our fine language, but i RLY dislike ppl who dont treat ppl fair!!!)

 

[Vesania]

Tbh I think Juj should get his account re-opened. Fact is he cheated. But I bet 90% og all crafters nowadays run macro programs, in some sort.

To be honest, that's a highly insulting thing to say about the vast majority who are decent crafters and got there the hard way with no cheating. Just because some people think it's ok, doesn't mean it must happen to the extent they'd like to believe or that this somehow makes it alright.

He cheated. He got caught. He got owned. End of story.

 

[Meduza]

dont tell me that the folks buying diamond seals at 12-13 gold for large quantities hinges them w/o use of macro... i simply wont believe that! (i dont mind them buying them off me at that price, and tbh i dont rly mind them using a macro to hingie it either). macro is used to make crafting for "accesable" - it sboring like hell as it is... ofc, one could just not start craft, thats their choice, i jsut think that a perma ban for that little cheat is way far out!

 

[Darksword]

man now im so confused :S is using a program 2 click the button for u even though ur not afk illeagal in daoc or not? simple yes or no pweese :S coz tbh im just a hinger and keyboards now come with warnings about health and safety about repetitive keyboard/mouse tasks cause finger strain <giggles> OMG DAOC IS GUNNA BRAKE MY FINGERS hehe

 

[NeonBlue]

dont tell me that the folks buying diamond seals at 12-13 gold for large quantities hinges them w/o use of macro

thats correct...i always did that..use to take me hours

not everyone has to cheat when they play a game!

 

[Vesania]

dont tell me that the folks buying diamond seals at 12-13 gold for large quantities hinges them w/o use of macro... i simply wont believe that! (i dont mind them buying them off me at that price, and tbh i dont rly mind them using a macro to hingie it either). macro is used to make crafting for "accesable" - it sboring like hell as it is... ofc, one could just not start craft, thats their choice, i jsut think that a perma ban for that little cheat is way far out!

I WILL tell you that, because it's true. I quite frequently hinge for hours without needing to be so lame as to cheat and I know others who do the same. Why? Because the money we get from it goes to good causes like guild rent, keep doors and helping out other people. It gives us satisfaction to know that we can do these things.

You have a pretty pessimistic view of Albion, which is your perrogative, but don't expect the legion of non-cheating crafters to think very much of your assumptions.

Crafting might be boring for you, in which case you shouldn't do it, but some of us can see past that and look to the results - specifically helping others - so we don't care about a bit of tedium.

At the end of the day, Juj cheated. How big a cheat is irrelevant. He cheated and got caught. QQ, frankly.

 

[NetNifty]

I hinge too without macros, never have used them and really is no need for me - with the bigger trinkits theres plenty of time to look at web sites etc and occasionally flicking back to DAoC to check on the current item.

 

[Morchaoron]

whoever designed the crafting system should get shot anyway...

 

[Sortbane]

whoever designed the crafting system should get shot anyway...

it's there for the people that can be arsed to sit down and do it, it's not meant that everyone should be a crafter.. (tho I do think it's kinda boring myself )

And just to make sure to stay on topic, all the little cases of macroing should be punished just as severly as this one, better to strangle it off in the birth than turning it into UO style macroing by allowing first this bit to be legal opening for the next case etc.etc. (snowball -> avalanche syndrome...)

 

[Ardrias]

The creator of this thread has impressed me. I've yet to see another living being be as fucking retarded. ** removed **

 

[Vesania]

The creator of this thread has impressed me. I've yet to see another living being be as fucking retarded. ** removed **

He's lame and a cheater, true...but wishing him to die is out of order. He already got what he actually deserved and is therefore banned.