Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[dapprman]

So you can buy 20 copies of DAOC (or any other piece of software), write down the CD keys, then decline the EULA 20 times, bring them all back and expect to get your money back?

In the UK, as long as you have proof of purchase (i.e. receipt or credit card stub), then yes.
Continuing to using those CD keys, would, however, then be theft and a criminal offence.

 

[[AB]Shirtan]

..
And i have a question for Requiel. I play on US servers also and the ingame csr on merlin told me that u can macro whatever u want as long as u'r at the pc and can reply within few seconds.

I guess GOA disagree on this point with Mythik so just want to be sure if its so.

This is more or less the problem, most of the playerbase i believe look towards the great friday grab bags from Sanya Thomas for question about the game as we don't really get any info from GOA.

And if we are to believe Mythic, here's a couple quotes i dug up, seems that its either legal to macro when you are present at the keyboard, or its illegal, but you get a slap on the wrist and get your craft taken from you.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1347.shtml
Q: My question is regarding my Belkin Nostromo N52. It allows recordable macros which would allow me to craft without actually pressing any buttons.

Is this against the rules? My guildmates informed me that it may get me banned or my Alch skill reset. So, I have not used it yet. Please let me know.

A: Your guildmates are right on. From the head of in-game customer service: ”When we catch people using this, we first suspend the player for 5 days and wipe all of his tradeskills to zero. Second time is a ban.”


http://www.camelotherald.com/more/592.shtml
Macroing is using any program, hack, tool, or piece of equipment to skill
up, or in any way gain an advantage over people who are using the "normal"
playing tools. Yes, this includes the "pecking bird" devices people set up
or wedge onto their keyboards (also known as dime macroing), so that they
can skill up while AFK . The penalty for being caught macroing is listed in
the rules as flat out banning. I wanted to let you guys know now, though,
that the penalties may also include suspension, the removal of your
tradeskill points, or anything else Mythic decides is appropriate. We just
want to keep it fair.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/469.shtml
Q: I was suspended for macroing – but I absolutely was not using a macro program. What gives?

A: Our EULA and our rules of conduct contain a little clause about hardware macroing, and that’s what you may have been suspended for. What’s hardware macroing? Sometimes called dime macroing, or lego macroing, it means doing something physical to your keyboard to cause your character to do something without you actually being at the keyboard.

How do we determine whether or not you’re doing that? Well, almost all of the time it’s because another player reported you. If your character or pet is killing something in an empty room, and you’re AFK , you might not realize it when another player or group enters the area, and therefore you won’t realize it if you end up killstealing from those other people. And if you’re AFK , you’re certainly not going to be able to answer when those people try to ask you to either join them, take turns, or stop! So it’s important that you physically be present while you are in solo combat. If you are alone and must go AFK , you need to stop fighting, and move your avatar to an out of the way location to keep from interfering with the play time of other people who ARE at their keyboards.

If you are interfering with or damaging someone else’s experience in the game, a CSR will contact you and politely ask what’s going on. If you don’t answer within a reasonable time frame (and meanwhile, your character or your pet continues to fight), we will need to take action. Since macroing is clearly labeled cheating, we respond as we do to other types of cheating.

Seems they label macroing as using a macro program while being AFK

/Shirtan

 

[Meduza]

.. bla bla bla ...

Seems like u got owned by ur own ignorance... Severel times! :kissit: So no further comments on that...


I dont think what Juj did was right. I do however think that a ban was too much.

As some1 stated, I also do hope some filthy rich kid takes a random software firm to court and proves them wrong. I would sit on the back row with banners "Bye bye [Insert random EULA]" and rub my hands... hehehe

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Peope here really only see one half of the equation.. if the EULA is not binding, /meaning you can macro/, it also means that GOA can do whatever they want (which they can anyway), and delete your account for doing that. Or running in circles. Or planting too much maize next to your house, or whatever.

Check which branch you're sitting on before you start sawing.

 

[Juj]

Peope here really only see one half of the equation.. if the EULA is not binding, /meaning you can macro/, it also means that GOA can do whatever they want (which they can anyway), and delete your account for doing that. Or running in circles. Or planting too much maize next to your house, or whatever.

Check which branch you're sitting on before you start sawing.

Well actually no...
There are Laws to be followed... and as far as I know in most EU countrys, the laws are in the consumers favor

 

[Darzil]

Well, if they are in the consumers favour, this consumer wants a game without people cheating.

Darzil

 

[NeonBlue]

Well, if they are in the consumers favour, this consumer wants a game without people cheating.

Darzil

lol couldnt have put it better myself !

 

[NeonBlue]

Well actually no...
There are Laws to be followed... and as far as I know in most EU countrys, the laws are in the consumers favor

sigh...just let it drop

you've done the crime...now do ur time

GOA reserve the right to terminate ANYONES' accout at anytime with or without reason

So you aint gonna win

 

[Juj]

sigh...just let it drop

you've done the crime...now do ur time

GOA reserve the right to terminate ANYONES' accout at anytime with or without reason

So you aint gonna win

Acctually I'm not trying to win... This disscausion is for your benefit so GOA dont crap on you.

I personally am happier now than I've ever been. While I was playing the game I had lost too much contact with the real world.
I love the fact that i no longer spend hours a day talking to virtual friends, collecting virtual items, and all the while paying someone for this insanity...
Weather you like it or not GOA did handle this case VERY badly, and if you want to stop them from one day screwing you over then this thread is the perfect oppertunity to let GOA know..

Before my ban I didnt even know there was a difference between GOA and Mythic (purchased the game 5 months ago). In fact I didnt know GOA exsisted. Now imagine my case where I have read on these forums and the Camelot Herald that it is completly leagal to macro as long as you are not afk, and then to find out after doing so, that my account is terminated. I as a consumer have no way whatsoever of knowing that there are different rules for Mythic and GOA, let alone know of GOA's exsistence.
I remeber when my friend first told me of the website.... He tried to talk me through the opening of an account.. We quickly found out that we were on seperate websites... I had gone to the US site and he was on the European site. But on the site I was currently on there was a link to the European site... How the hell is anbody supposed to know that this beelongs to another company?

 

[NeonBlue]

I as a consumer have no way whatsoever of knowing that there are different rules for Mythic and GOA, let alone know of GOA's exsistence.

Maybe am being too obvious here....but surely when u bought the game and registered ur account....u read the european website?....read the rules of conduct? etc etc

If so...then surely u should of figured out that GOA & Mythic were 2 seperate bodies? that 1 body ran the US servers...the other body ran the European Servers....and that each body had a different set of rules for their servers

Or u saying u bought the game...registered it on a website that you didnt read...logged into the game didnt read the EULA...and played for 5months in a game where GOA's name gets mentioned at least once a day and u still had no clue?

sorry i just dont buy that

How the hell is anbody supposed to know that this beelongs to another company?

Sorry if am being too obvious again...but simple answer is read the fecking information on the fecking website !

 

[Juj]

And i suppose you did the above mentioned when you bought the game?

I doubt it..

If you are like me and 99% of other game buyers... What you did when you purchased the game was rip open the packet, get the cd in ASAP, install, register and play..

I only ever visited the European website when the servers went down, or to renew my subs..

The US site has far more to offer! As a newbie I had access to maps, guides and a plethora of other things on that site. What the hell would i need to visit the crappy European site for?

 

[NeonBlue]

And i suppose you did the above mentioned when you bought the game?

of course...u think am gonna buy a game...register it..and not look up anything about it?

maybe its just me...but especially with online games i always check the websites and especially the rules of the servers

If i didnt i could register the game...play 5mins or 5hrs next thing am banned and ive just wasted £30 (which was the price when i bought it 3yrs ago)

all because i couldnt be arsed reading the rules, not worth it

If you are like me and 99% of other game buyers... What you did when you purchased the game was rip open the packet, get the cd in ASAP, install, register and play

what i actually did was...bought it, installed it, read how to register when it was installing,once installed.,went to the website,registered.

After i registered i then spent the next 30mins or so reading the rules and the other bits of info on the site what i thought were relivant (sp?) at the time

only then did i log in and actually start playing

What the hell would i need to visit the crappy European site for?

the rules and other bits of important information that probably would of saved you from getting banned

 

[Juj]

the EULA and CoC are the same for both European and US sites.. .so what I read on the US site was the same as what I could have read on the European site...

 

[Oldfaravid]

Seeing a cheater get banned gives me hope for this game. To much 3d party programs in use as it is.. including radar and macroes. So well done GoA!
In a mmorpg where other players are involved id say 0 tolerance is the only option..

 

[Vesania]

Acctually I'm not trying to win... This disscausion is for your benefit so GOA dont crap on you.

You don't think, then, that the reason they "crapped" on you was because you were a naive, stupid, cheater?

Decent people who don't cheat don't need your kind of warning or discussion. All we need is fewer people like you with active accounts on our servers.

 

[Anastasia]

I don't think I've ever read a software EULA in my life, and definitely not one for a game ffs! I've got better things to do. They can't put anything illegal in there, so what's the problem? There are thousands of anally-retentive people / organisations out there that just love picking these things apart in the hope of finding proof that Microsoft / whoever is planning to de-stabilise the world and read my emails. For which I'm grateful, btw .

Originally Posted by Tesla Monkor
Check which branch you're sitting on before you start sawing.

I know someone who did that....

 

[Flimgoblin]

the reason they can do that is because you do not own your characters - you hire a service of access to the account which they can terminate at any time - they may also modify the account if they see fit (e.g. upgrading items to new versions when we get a patch, nuking your trade skills).

It's not _your_ character in a legal sense I believe? I'm sure the armchair (or otherwise) legal eagles will correct me on this though

 

[dapprman]

By the fact you can buy and sell accounts for the game, and GOA have done nothing to put a stop to this, means you do own the account. The characters on it, however, may be a different matter.

 

[IainC]

By the fact you can buy and sell accounts for the game, and GOA have done nothing to put a stop to this, means you do own the account. The characters on it, however, may be a different matter.

Incorrect.

You are also not entitled to give, sell, lease, lend or exchange your account under any circumstances. No virtual object, character or currency in the game may be the object of a pecuniary transaction, under any form or circumstances. Any activity of this kind may result in the application of various sanctions, including termination of the account.

 

[Anastasia]

The data you create on their database may or may not be your "property", but without their application and servers its just a long list of 1's and 0's. Not even sure about that tbh - the subs may just give you a temporary licence to access the "application".

That's the way our company works - clients pay an annual maintenance fee and for that they get to use our software (and get support and upgrades). I suppose one of them could refuse to pay and ask for their data, but without our application to access it we'd have to provide it as delimited text or SYLK or DBF or something. Pretty much unusable, and of zero prectical value.

 

[Meduza]

You are also not entitled to give, sell, lease, lend or exchange your account under any circumstances. No virtual object, character or currency in the game may be the object of a pecuniary transaction, under any form or circumstances. Any activity of this kind may result in the application of various sanctions, including termination of the account.

Again, even tho Goa Code of Conduct says so, its not legally binding. One can only make these kinds of "agreements" on b2b markets, not b2c. On b2c theres a thing called consumer rights of which no company/customer can agree them out of. Once a consumer have bought a product (i wont say license, cuz "license" is only rly applicable (sp?) on b2b markets), he owns that product and can do whatever we will with it (ofc not copy it and sell illegal copies, or alter the code in anyway, etc.). So whether or not goa want ppl to buy and sell accounts, then cant say that their customers cant.

Then again... I wont, Juj wont, and other gamers wont ever try to build a case against the CoC etc So yes, in real world Goa can do whatevah they want Sad rly, tho...

 

[Anastasia]

Incorrect.

Jeez Requiel, you still reading this?



wtg

 

[Meduza]

The data you create on their database may or may not be your "property", but without their application and servers its just a long list of 1's and 0's. Not even sure about that tbh - the subs may just give you a temporary licence to access the "application".

That's the way our company works - clients pay an annual maintenance fee and for that they get to use our software (and get support and upgrades). I suppose one of them could refuse to pay and ask for their data, but without our application to access it we'd have to provide it as delimited text or SYLK or DBF or something. Pretty much unusable, and of zero prectical value.

lol, I work in a hosting company too

do u work with "customers" meaning ppl like u and me, or r ur customers other companies ? cuz if they r, then what u say isnt applicable (sp? nice word btw )

I work on b2b and data etc on our servers r teh belongings of our customers and if they/we terminate, data must be provided in a readable form. we could, however, agree with our customers, that they get shit if they leave us... but then we have no customers to begin with

 

[dapprman]

Jeez Requiel, you still reading this?



wtg

Obviously not enough work for him despite GOA being seriously under-staffed.

 

[Anastasia]

data must be provided in a readable form.

Hehe - define readable. Our database has about 170 tables. I could squirt all this out as "readable" text, but deciding which invoice lines belong to which invoice header would be a fairly manual task

 

[Nymrin]

If I keep my finger pressed on one button, while levelling in some bug-abuse-free way, and never bother to reply to any messages (most probably I'd seem AFK that way, let's say I removed all chats but /gu and no one is talking, cause it's late at night) would I get banned if I was up for a check up?

If so, how do you motivate what I'm doing wrong?

 

[Pin]

Again, even tho Goa Code of Conduct says so, its not legally binding. One can only make these kinds of "agreements" on b2b markets, not b2c. On b2c theres a thing called consumer rights of which no company/customer can agree them out of. Once a consumer have bought a product (i wont say license, cuz "license" is only rly applicable (sp?) on b2b markets), he owns that product and can do whatever we will with it (ofc not copy it and sell illegal copies, or alter the code in anyway, etc.). So whether or not goa want ppl to buy and sell accounts, then cant say that their customers cant.

Then again... I wont, Juj wont, and other gamers wont ever try to build a case against the CoC etc So yes, in real world Goa can do whatevah they want Sad rly, tho...

Actually, I believe all you bought was a copy of the game - i.e. the CD, box, key and enclosed documentation.
These are what you own and you are free to do what you like with these as long as you don't break copyrights, etc. i.e. you can sell it.

The account is not part of this product, it remains property of GOA and basically you are just leasing the account and storage on bandwidth of their servers. And this is under a seperate transaction and agreement to the purchase of the game.

If GOA (by terms in their EULA/COC) terminate your lease of the account it has no bearing on status of the CD, box, key or documentation, and in fact, you are perfectly entitled to use this product in conjunction with another provider's servers and account services.



(And no I'm not a lawyer, but I too can insert random markups to make statements sound plausible )

 

[Vesania]

If I keep my finger pressed on one button, while levelling in some bug-abuse-free way, and never bother to reply to any messages (most probably I'd seem AFK that way, let's say I removed all chats but /gu and no one is talking, cause it's late at night) would I get banned if I was up for a check up?

If so, how do you motivate what I'm doing wrong?

Afaik, you can't choose to block or ignore sends from a Dev. They are a different colour from normal sends and common sense would also indicate that they would not get turned off just because you weren't listening to pms. I'm sure there are other ways of checking too. I doubt very much that a genuine rules-abiding person would get slapped for cheating.

 

[Meduza]

If I keep my finger pressed on one button, while levelling in some bug-abuse-free way, and never bother to reply to any messages (most probably I'd seem AFK that way, let's say I removed all chats but /gu and no one is talking, cause it's late at night) would I get banned if I was up for a check up?

isnt that what animists r doing ?!? Watching movies while having 1 finger pressing 1 button over and over again in the livingroom ? (be4 the nerf i recon they did)

 

[Meduza]

(And no I'm not a lawyer, but I too can insert random markups to make statements sound plausible )

Well, putting in random bold in a text kinda makes u look like an idiot, doesnt it ?