Ice theurgist the new FOTM

[hotrat]

Ice pets are uber, 1 ice pet can kill a lvl 50 cloth caster pretty easy, and i also saw 2-3 ice pets kill a frair, 3-4 killed a lvl 50 paladin aswell.


They cast fast and with snare, ice pets are great.

heh Outlaw will be fotm

 

[tildson]

5 nukes didnt kill my 1k hp

but a huge improvement

 

[hotrat]

[19:00:59] <Begin Info: Bonuses (snapshot)>
[19:00:59] Resistances
[19:00:59] Crush: +23%/+0%
[19:00:59] Slash: +28%/+0%
[19:00:59] Thrust: +21%/+0%
[19:00:59] Physical: +0%/+15%
[19:00:59] Heat: +26%/+15%
[19:00:59] Cold: +50%/+15%
[19:00:59] Matter: +26%/+15%
[19:00:59] Body: +26%/+15%
[19:00:59] Spirit: +29%/+15%
[19:00:59] Essence: +0%/+15%
[19:00:59] Energy: +26%/+15%
[19:00:59]
[19:00:59] Realm Rank Bonuses
[19:00:59] +5 to ALL Specs
[19:00:59]
[19:00:59] Relic Bonuses
[19:00:59]
[19:00:59] Outpost Bonuses
[19:00:59] none
[19:00:59]
[19:00:59] <End Info>
[19:01:13] @@You say, "50+15 resists, aom5, best cold buff, max spellcrafting"
[19:01:16] @@You say, "pwnsauce me"
[19:01:19] You are hit for 111 damage.
[19:01:19] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:22] Guisesese cheers at the greater ice elemental!
[19:01:22] You are hit for 90 damage.
[19:01:22] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:25] You are hit for 128 damage.
[19:01:25] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:28] You are hit for 115 damage.
[19:01:28] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:31] You are hit for 91 damage.
[19:01:31] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:32] Slashingfear casts a spell!
[19:01:34] You are hit for 96 damage.
[19:01:34] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:38] You are hit for 125 damage.
[19:01:38] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:38] Slashingfear casts a spell!
[19:01:41] You are hit for 88 damage.
[19:01:41] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[19:01:43] Slashingfear casts a spell!

Ice Elemental Logs

vs
lvl 50 friar, 99% gear

[15:37:46] <Begin Info: Bonuses (snapshot)>
[15:37:46] Resistances
[15:37:46] Crush: +26%/+0%
[15:37:46] Slash: +19%/+0%
[15:37:46] Thrust: +15%/+0%
[15:37:46] Physical: +0%/+0%
[15:37:46] Heat: +16%/+0%
[15:37:46] Cold: +20%/+0%
[15:37:46] Matter: +0%/+0%
[15:37:46] Body: +13%/+0%
[15:37:46] Spirit: +18%/+0%
[15:37:46] Essence: +0%/+0%
[15:37:46] Energy: +17%/+0%

lvl 48 ice pet

[15:37:46] You are hit for 170 damage.
[15:37:46] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[15:37:49] You are hit for 162 damage.
[15:37:49] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[15:37:52] @@[Chat] Perkilus: "ok let me post these"
[15:38:00] @@[Chat] Qoaa: "pets are faster than caster speed"
[15:38:14] @@[Chat] Daecon: "20% cold resist, being hit between 150 to 174 by ice pet"
[15:38:30] You are hit for 183 damage.
[15:38:30] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[15:38:33] You target [Daecon]
[15:38:33] You examine Daecon. He is a member of the Friar class in your realm.
[15:38:33] You are hit for 176 damage.
[15:38:33] You are enveloped by numbing cold!
[15:38:34] You begin casting a Refocillation spell!
[15:38:35] The aged ice elemental is attacking you and your spell is interrupted!
[15:38:36] You are hit for 159 damage.
[15:38:36] Your duel ends!
[15:38:36] Daecon was just defeated in a duel by Arandals!

upshot...
damage is good, resist rate is MUCH better. 2 or 3 of these on a single target is a lot of damage.

However, once the elemental loses LOS, it is useless. Doesnt try to relocate target, just stands nuking at nothing... until target comes back into LOS/Range, then it resumes on target.

lvl 48 earth pet

[14:57:14] @@[Chat] Daecon: "lvl 48 pet, friar, 99% sc gear, no selfbuffs other than bases"
[14:57:20] The ”earthlord” hits your arm for 247 (-58) damage!
[14:57:25] @@[Chat] Qoaa: "earth pets still swing very very slow, they'll never make it thru pbt"
[14:57:26] The ”earthlord” hits your hand for 199 (-47) damage!
[14:57:32] The ”earthlord” hits your head for 241 (-56) damage!
[14:57:34] You enter combat mode and target [the ”earthlord”]
[14:57:34] You prepare to perform a Friar's Boon!
[14:57:34] You perform your Friar's Boon perfectly. (+51)
[14:57:34] You attack the ”earthlord” with your staff and hit for 188 (+25) damage!
[14:57:36] You prepare to perform a Friar's Boon!
[14:57:37] You perform your Friar's Boon perfectly. (+54)
[14:57:37] You attack the ”earthlord” with your staff and hit for 199 (+26) damage!
[14:57:37] The ”earthlord” dies!


upshot
lvl 40 and lvl 48 earth pets are fast, and live a long time. The damage is good, and they seem to hit as a higher-dex attacker (can't prove that, but they didn't miss my friar much). Low hitpoints is an issue... 2 boons sometimes did them in.

So around 100 dmg per nuke (with snare) per pet on a target with 50% cold, about 150 dmg if you only have 26% cold.

 

[tildson]

strong ice! now im confused what to spec xD

 

[old.Thanatlos]

hehe, i still find it amusing that pets outdamage some classes fully speced in weapons but hey that's just me, balance.. i guess

 

[old.anubis]

after vp boost our shamans respecced to 43 aug, after this it's time to make it 45 it seems ^^

 

[Ahqmae]

Evil pets :E

Make them mezzable now ;p

 

[parzi]

oh well couldnt you kill the pets with just confusion or some other pve spell ?

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by parzi
oh well couldnt you kill the pets with just confusion or some other pve spell ?

confusion dont work as far as i can tell

 

[Spamb0t]

not anymore.


that 60sec earth pet is gonna hurt :x

 

[Puppetmistress]

Hmmm.. My theurgist is atm 35 earth 41 ice, guess I choose FOTM

Theurgist fixes are 'nice' because they dont make the pets a waste of mana often anymore.

Pets need to be dealed with now, which is something that makes sense since it costs are high and so is the cast-time.

However, it still doesnt fix the real problem what theurgists share with the majority of other casters: Skyhigh resists.

 

[behatch]

therg still die in under 5s with assist

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by behatch
therg still die in under 5s with assist

so does every class in the game. I think you meant in under 1s

 

[Fagane]

This Fix of Mythic is a huge Nerf for the earth theurgist. Expect to see them even less till people hit level 50. The reason for this is simple, they can be killed in 1 to 2 blows by green/blue mobs. This will cause the mob to agro imidiatly to the theurgist, and kill it before the 3th pet is even casted.

Earth pets no longer will be able to "tank", and so solo with an earth theurgist is imposible. Pets is the only way for an earth theurgist to solo, the Ice DD does barly dammage with an spec of 26, to get the best earth pets, people now need to spec to 48 earth, what means ice spec will drop to 24. Dropping the base line ice DD dammage even more.

Ice Theurgs got a boost in PvE & RvR (whats good, they needed it badly) with pets.

Wind Theurgs got a small boost in PvE & RvR (whats just) by increasing the area mezz range to 1500.

Earth Theurgist got a huge nerf in PvE (whats very unjust, they needed a boost here) and a boost in RvR (whats very good, they needed it).

Are these changes good in 1.65, all except the earth changes.

Fagane

 

[Spamb0t]

erm.. err.. eeh...

 

[asorek]

i havnt had time to read ALL the notes, but i assume ALL ice pets of all lvls now nuke faster and for more? or just the new ones?

TBH calling a theurg FOTM is a little bit unbelievable!! it wont happen... theyre hardly played now, yea sure a feww hundred will roll a /lv 20 one to see, but not many will keep i can assure you, theyre a bitach to lvl and suck in RvR..even when u do get pets off..

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Fagane
This Fix of Mythic is a huge Nerf for the earth theurgist. Expect to see them even less till people hit level 50. The reason for this is simple, they can be killed in 1 to 2 blows by green/blue mobs. This will cause the mob to agro imidiatly to the theurgist, and kill it before the 3th pet is even casted.

Earth pets no longer will be able to "tank", and so solo with an earth theurgist is imposible. Pets is the only way for an earth theurgist to solo, the Ice DD does barly dammage with an spec of 26, to get the best earth pets, people now need to spec to 48 earth, what means ice spec will drop to 24. Dropping the base line ice DD dammage even more.

Ice Theurgs got a boost in PvE & RvR (whats good, they needed it badly) with pets.

Wind Theurgs got a small boost in PvE & RvR (whats just) by increasing the area mezz range to 1500.

Earth Theurgist got a huge nerf in PvE (whats very unjust, they needed a boost here) and a boost in RvR (whats very good, they needed it).

Are these changes good in 1.65, all except the earth changes.

Fagane

Sorry, but do you have any clue about anything?

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Pin
Sorry, but do you have any clue about anything?

Think he has a good point actually.

The way an earth-theurgist solo's is by spamming a huge amount of pets on the mob and when it downs to a certain % (depends on con of mob) you start nuking with your unspecced ice baseline-nuke.

This worked because the pets didn't die that fast (if they die they transfer aggro to the caster).

I also got the fear that if you're gonna do this with the new pets and they dont change the aggro-code you're gonna have aggro very soon as theurgist.

That leaves you with an un-CC'able mob on you because of the other pets still hitting it. Leaving you running around kiting the mob.

Changing the aggro-code is not easily done because that will make it clearly overpowered in PvE.

Curious how it will work out in principle. Perhaps the pets wont die that fast, but the tests done (a friar killing it by 2 boons à 200 dmg) doesnt look really promising for soloing an earth-theurgist especially in lower levels.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by asorek
i havnt had time to read ALL the notes, but i assume ALL ice pets of all lvls now nuke faster and for more? or just the new ones?

TBH calling a theurg FOTM is a little bit unbelievable!! it wont happen... theyre hardly played now, yea sure a feww hundred will roll a /lv 20 one to see, but not many will keep i can assure you, theyre a bitach to lvl and suck in RvR..even when u do get pets off..

Oh common, you can say everything about theurgists, but a bitch to level?????

I think the theurgist is pretty easy to level. The line-respecs at 20 and 40 give you enoug methods of tailoring your spec for certain levels plus the fact PBT, EB+haste and decent nukes, aswell as backup CC is always nice in PvE.

 

[old.anubis]

who the f cares about pve
you got unCCable (apart from 10 sec ae stun from mids) interrupt for 60 seconds
GG mythic

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Think he has a good point actually.

The way an earth-theurgist solo's is by spamming a huge amount of pets on the mob and when it downs to a certain % (depends on con of mob) you start nuking with your unspecced ice baseline-nuke.

This worked because the pets didn't die that fast (if they die they transfer aggro to the caster).

My first char was an Earth Theurg. Spent a lot of time soloing (in particular before getting PBT).

Currently, you can spam earth pets on a red-con, cast 4 before the first one reaches the target, and not have any of them actually killed before the 30second life-timer expires.

After the change, sure they'll be killed by red-con mobs in under 30s. Oranges will still take 30s to kill one, and yellows close to the 60s. Saying a green/blue will kill one easily is silly.

If anything, the change makes it easier to kill 3 yellows at once as you have 60sec to do it instead of 30.

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Curious how it will work out in principle. Perhaps the pets wont die that fast, but the tests done (a friar killing it by 2 boons à 200 dmg) doesnt look really promising for soloing an earth-theurgist especially in lower levels.

There's a big difference between a level 50 friar hitting a pet and a low level mob hitting the pet of a low level theurg.


(Anyway, if you're levelling an Earth Theurg the hard way, spec 7 Ice early )

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.anubis
who the f cares about pve
you got unCCable (apart from 10 sec ae stun from mids) interrupt for 60 seconds
GG mythic

Well, it's the PvE card that the Savages are trying to use aswell


Anyway, the theurg pet changes are a nice boost... But still hoping for AE stun in the Earth line

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by Pin
After the change, sure they'll be killed by red-con mobs in under 30s. Oranges will still take 30s to kill one, and yellows close to the 60s. Saying a green/blue will kill one easily is silly.

Actualy you are very wrong Pin. And I say this with regret.

Tests have been done in the US, The earth pets works fine in RvR, but is dead in 2 hits by a blue. An earth pet got 350 hits, no absorb value, and pbt does not cover the pets.

Now I hear you say, I can cast 3 pets before the first reaches the mob. This is also not true (and tested). The earth pets got a huge speed increase (can no longer be outrun) and it takes very little time to cover the 2000 distance (max pet range). Pet1 is on the mob, just after you finished casting pet2, the moment pet2 reaches the mob, pet 1 is dead against an orange con melee type mob. So it will walk towards you, while pet2 (and your pet3 you are casting, meeting the mob close to you). You get into melee while the mob gets hit by 2 pets.

Your speed chant does not work becouse you are in combat (1 of your pets).

Fagane

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by old.anubis
who the f cares about pve
you got unCCable (apart from 10 sec ae stun from mids) interrupt for 60 seconds
GG mythic

Loads of earth theurgs only do PvE atm. So this is a huge isue.

And these "uber" pets can be killed (all of them at ones) by 1 QC area dam spell.

Fagane

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Fagane
Actualy you are very wrong Pin. And I say this with regret.

Tests have been done in the US, The earth pets works fine in RvR, but is dead in 2 hits by a blue. An earth pet got 350 hits, no absorb value, and pbt does not cover the pets.

Now I hear you say, I can cast 3 pets before the first reaches the mob. This is also not true (and tested). The earth pets got a huge speed increase (can no longer be outrun) and it takes very little time to cover the 2000 distance (max pet range). Pet1 is on the mob, just after you finished casting pet2, the moment pet2 reaches the mob, pet 1 is dead against an orange con melee type mob. So it will walk towards you, while pet2 (and your pet3 you are casting, meeting the mob close to you). You get into melee while the mob gets hit by 2 pets.

Your speed chant does not work becouse you are in combat (1 of your pets).

Fagane

Then work differently. As I said, spec 7 Ice early on. Try and work out why.


Speccing 7 Ice early was always a better way to solo-exp an Earth Theurg, and with this patch it got even better.

 

[Fagane]

Except at the higher levels it gets resisted a lot.

And the 30% speed decrease gives you exactly 2 more sec to live or wasted valuable time and die anyway becouse it got resisted. Thats maybe 1 more pet, or start to run in time. Getting the DoT effect cabbies use atm. Still 2 pets are not enough to kill an orange con mob, with the short duration the speed decrease works.

Fagane

 

[uglymug]

hope i don't meet any earththeurg is rvr when playing my shaman...1 or 2 pets on his ass for 60 secs will make him totally ineffective to do anything but use shammy fart (which doesn't work on the pets) to annoy the other sides tanks and healers ...

great

 

[Lumikki]

Yahoo, something new to whine about!!



xx

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by uglymug
hope i don't meet any earththeurg is rvr when playing my shaman...1 or 2 pets on his ass for 60 secs will make him totally ineffective to do anything but use shammy fart (which doesn't work on the pets) to annoy the other sides tanks and healers ...

great

1 or 2 pets should probably not be so hard to kill for your tanks anymore (btw highest earth pets might be so fast you cant escape) as their hitpoints got decreased.

 

[uglymug]

true .. but in general the tanks are busy with something else (either standing around mezzed/rooted/stunned or going after their own targets). very few tanks take the time to kill those theurg pets (or any other pets btw) ... for most pets this sin't a problem as a friendly healer can CC them..or i meself could root/ichor them..but not these pets

sure it may only take 1 or 2 hits from a tank to floor the pet..but that in effect 1 class/player would occupy 2 classes/players..or more depending on how many pets he can summon

now as things are now, any pet is pain to a support/caster class ... but at least i had knew that if i could survive and run about for 20 or 30 secs that the theurg pets would keel over