I am very angry with you

[cemi0]

Raquiel, I think you should be careful when talking about treating some customers different than others.

I'm not offending Sourcream in this post, I'm glad that she got her items back.

Should I highlight the last 4 words in the above sentence or did you get my point already?

Imo it's taking the huge piss not giving cemi0 his items back when you did it to another customer a few weeks ago.

She told me that she got hacked so the situation aint exactly the same. But I only know what she told me.

 

[Kalba]

Don't be stupid.

MR Iknowall Rjendug is an example of the fact that he got suspended ingame due to calling names on irc. (After he had let his friends animist kill him a few times)

 

[Annisa]

As a member of the community I would like to know as well who this person is. Even under the current ruleset, i don't understand how you want to protect that persons identity. You are protecting a dishonest person due to a (IMHO) skewed view of the current rules.

I so agree with this. Although the mistake is made and he knows he is responsible for it, there is something like compassion and that's what I miss here in the whole incident tbh. Its not the fact that GOA doesnt restore things, we all know that so called "policy" by now. Its the way they are handle things. There is absolute no compassion in it: its this attitude that irritates me over and over again. So also in this case: defending a policy that isnt right. And no I am not taking about restoring things. I am taking about defending a thief. The thief overplayed his hand and shouldnt be protected by a GM. Ofc there is a privacy issue and I understand this BUT there is a in between solution. They could keep the info about the thief to themselfs and have a look at it anyway. There is a big chance this dude plays DAoC himself. There is a big difference between cant and wont.

 

[noaim]

Ok.. Now consider these points.
1: I and the rest of the GM team have a finite amount of time. Do we concentrate our efforts on people who have encountered a problem through no fault of their own or do we spend time and resources on people who have broken our rules?

The problem is you dont really help people that has a problem that aint their fault either.

Like a while ago, we killed Kraken, nothing dropped and the second he died a new Kraken attacked us, one that had been in his "cave" the entire time. We killed this one too, and he dropped.

I PM´d a GM about it, asking if its supposed to be 2 Krakens, the answer was no, this must be a bug. Did we get any items for the work of killing the first Kraken? No, since you dont work that way.

Do people that get artifacts stolen them handed back to them? No, you dont work that way. The only thing I can think of that you do to help, is to reset bugged encounters, and seriously, if that is all you have time to do with what, 4? GM´s on excal, then I really wonder what you do with your time, since 95% of the time you ask a GM something ingame, the answer is either "we cant help with that" or "its working as intended".

 

[Raven]

... but in this case one guy lost everything he have worked for in his DAoC years.

and i think thats a point that goa dont seem to understand, this is not like losing a Steam account or anything like that, it is years of work down the drain.

 

[Himse]

The problem is you dont really help people that has a problem that aint their fault either.

Like a while ago, we killed Kraken, nothing dropped and the second he died a new Kraken attacked us, one that had been in his "cave" the entire time. We killed this one too, and he dropped.

I PM´d a GM about it, asking if its supposed to be 2 Krakens, the answer was no, this must be a bug. Did we get any items for the work of killing the first Kraken? No, since you dont work that way.

Do people that get artifacts stolen them handed back to them? No, you dont work that way. The only thing I can think of that you do to help, is to reset bugged encounters, and seriously, if that is all you have time to do with what, 4? GM´s on excal, then I really wonder what you do with your time, since 95% of the time you ask a GM something ingame, the answer is either "we cant help with that" or "its working as intended".

i agree totally with that its a 24/7 game, they should work for a little longer hours maybe? or employ more to moderate the servers in shifts? so people can always gain access to help..

 

[Ctuchik]

and i think thats a point that goa dont seem to understand, this is not like losing a Steam account or anything like that, it is years of work down the drain.

wich is why u DONT give out your account details to ANYBODY!
and if u save them on ur hard drive/hotmail/any other easily hackable whatever. u got what u deserved. pen and paper and then a small safe under the bed
Both GOA and Mythic have warned about keeping ur details accesible to others. but everybody thinks "that never happends to me so i can keep it in the open" and then acually get surprised when it DOES happend to them.

its never a matter of IF it happends, and all the matter of WHEN it happends.

never say never.

/edit: and just for the record. yes i DO keep all my account details in a safe under the bed and nowhere else.

 

[Kanim]

The problem is you dont really help people that has a problem that aint their fault either.

Like a while ago, we killed Kraken, nothing dropped and the second he died a new Kraken attacked us, one that had been in his "cave" the entire time. We killed this one too, and he dropped.

I PM´d a GM about it, asking if its supposed to be 2 Krakens, the answer was no, this must be a bug. Did we get any items for the work of killing the first Kraken? No, since you dont work that way.

Do people that get artifacts stolen them handed back to them? No, you dont work that way. The only thing I can think of that you do to help, is to reset bugged encounters, and seriously, if that is all you have time to do with what, 4? GM´s on excal, then I really wonder what you do with your time, since 95% of the time you ask a GM something ingame, the answer is either "we cant help with that" or "its working as intended".

the kraken bug where it repops seems to occur when a group has wiped on it prior to your grp killing it, usually it will drop 2 sets of loot if you kill it both times. The loot bug has happened to us when we killed it on prydwen, the gm's response was that it won't drop loot if a pet gets the killing blow. Which seems like bs since i've killed it with shrooms around 10 times and each time its dropped.

 

[noaim]

the kraken bug where it repops seems to occur when a group has wiped on it prior to your grp killing it, usually it will drop 2 sets of loot if you kill it both times. The loot bug has happened to us when we killed it on prydwen, the gm's response was that it won't drop loot if a pet gets the killing blow. Which seems like bs since i've killed it with shrooms around 10 times and each time its dropped.

Yeah same thing when I focused Fornfrusoenen once, he just disappeared when the shards died, no loot or anything..."dont kill with pets". Like people havent focused him a few times before.

And Himse, I dont think you read what I said, and if you did, you prolly didnt understand it. I am not saying they should be online 24/7, but I wonder who they are helping, because the usual answer is "we dont help with that" even if the problem is an obvious ingame bug.

 

[Kelan]

Just give him some damn stuff back,its not going to cost U (goa) a god-damn penny is it ?? Just 20 mins of your damn time to make a customer happy once again,and restore some of the lost faith we ALL have in you (goa).

Bad enough you respond to his honestly with a slap in the face uke:

 

[moik]

Sometimes support is not able to give you what you want and that doesn't mean the support is bad, it means that you're asking for something unreasonable.

Cemi0 did something wrong when he trusted someone else with his account so i understand why you can't help him by giving the items back. But what i don't understand is how you can refuse to give the community a name of the offender that obviously used illegal means to get access to cemi0's account.

Unreasonable? Barely. Bad customer support? With the total disregard of the entire community i would say this was a bad call from GOA's customer support/community managers.

 

[cemi0]

We cannot guarantee that your communications within the Expansion and any other personally identifiable information will not be disclosed to third parties. For example, we may be obliged to supply such information by the authorities, or third parties may unlawfully intercept or access transmissions or private communications. Furthermore, we may (and you hereby authorise us to) disclose any information about you that we deem necessary to private entities, law enforcement officials or any other official entity as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate for the resolution of any problems or for any investigations.

Clearly says here that you accept that GOA can pass on information to a third party. Same thing as my scammer accepted when entering my account.

In Denmark we have two kinds of laws

1) Changeable/Not fixed
2) Unchangeable/Fixed

A changeable and not fixed law can be deviated by both parties agreement, i.e. the EULA.

An unchaneable and fixed law cant be deviated even though both parties have agreed on something else.

I think it works the same way in atleast all Europe countries, but I couldnt find anything about the french law etc. I doubt that its a fixed one because why would the disclousure be included in the EULA if they cant use it for anything? And why have GOA given out details before (obviously judged by some other posts in this thread) and why wont they answer me the difference on getting ones email hacked to giving out info?

But I guess the only way to get anything from GOA is through court and people who play in their spare time seriously cba. So GOA can basicly do whatever they want.

 

[Raven]

essentially goa are coving for a scammer who will quite happily carry on doing it without fear of punishment...

 

[Bourlog]

Man, i feel sorry for you I know the feeling. my account got scammed too ones, and goa didnt tell me who did it, damn them..

I really hope you can get your items back, youre a nice guy and a great player, too bad this always happens to the "good guys"

 

[Arabnisse]

Why don't we give items back? Well because in this case the person hasn't been hacked. He's given his details to someone else. When you do that you are in effect saying 'my account is your account. Treat all my characters, items and cash as your own.'

I read the post about the guy saying GOA even let him know that the scammer's account was banned. As people already have said, sad story about the items, but that's not really why this thread is going on.

Let's say cemi0 would have lied to GOA and directly said he got his account scammed, not using MSN or any other community device. In that case things would have been sorted, as we've seen in this thread, but how can GOA tell?

What about other people who gets their accounts scammed and getting the problems solved, how can they tell they weren't lying too? Aye, probably GOA has some sort of Log Device, I don't know, but can it exactly tell when an account gets scammed? Isn't the scammer just logging onto it as usual? I am sure GOA don't have access to a MSN log device (or what to call it) so how could they be really sure cemi0 DID exploit his account security there?

Ok, now we know he was honest and did, but don't you see my point?

 

[Penguin]

Don't know if anyone already said, but the bold parts in the convo probably aren't msn hacks, it looks like one of those mods you can download and when you type !imitate <message> it looks like the other person said it. It doesn't copy the font/colour though.

 

[Sye]

No offence to you cemi0, i dont know you very well only from all the Dragon raids you do but...


As soon as this incident was posted on Freddyshouse it became public, therfor GOA had to tred carefully, as any decision they made would be remembered in later cases of a similar nature. So if they did give all your stuff back, it would mean every instance in the future would argue their case using your incident as a reason.

As for naming the 'thief', im not sure how people can call this person a thief when he was given the information to help himself, fair enough cemi0 didnt know he was giving his account details to someone unknown to him, but the point is he gave his details willingly.

If this incident was dealt with between GOA and Cemi0 then it might have progressed further after some discussion and persistance, involving the whole Midgard realm was a mistake imo.


Flame me if you want, but thats how i see it, i would probably quit DAOC too if it happened to me, like i said, no offence cemi0, from what ive seen your a decent guy.

 

[- English -]

As for naming the 'thief', im not sure how people can call this person a thief when he was given the information to help himself,

hmm

 

[joap]

As for naming the 'thief', im not sure how people can call this person a thief when he was given the information to help himself,

hmm

A thief is someone who takes something that does not belong to them. I fail to see how the definition fails to apply here...

 

[- English -]

he was helping himself to something which didn't belong to him?.. cemi0 didnt say take all you want m'dear

quote you

A thief is someone who takes something that does not belong to them.

and even if he had the account details... they are cemi0s, not his?

 

[Sye]

I thought sharing account details means sharing the account, which means sharing characters, which means sharing items, which means sharing money???

Therefor the account and its contents belong to those who have access to it, which should only be the 1 person. As soon as the details are shared you are giving equal rights to everything in the account.

Agreed it was wrong for this person to clear his account out, but if this guy was given the keys to your house would you expect the house insurance to pay for whatever he takes?

Tbh the arguement could go on forever as everyone has their own opinion, the topic should be locked imo

 

[[CE]Hjendug]

Why lock a thread where people can post their oppinions about how sucky, GoA their services is ?

 

[Tesla Monkor]

GOA's service isn't sucky. It just doesn't include protecting people against doing stupid things.

 

[Klonk]

I would guess that about 5% of the long-time daoc players follow the EULA... we all know it. 95% of us probably have access to more than one account through friends or guildies, and in 99% of the cases that's not a problem. In my experience it's much easier to follow the laws that ppl respect, than to follow "paper laws" that noone cares about..

I know it's no excuse, but if GOA were to punish _all_ the players that in some way or another are breaking the CoC/EULA, there would be about 100 players left in Europe. So why are they being so rigid in this case? Knowing Healler, I know he will be satisfied if only he can get the identity of the scammer, at least to get some "sjelefred". It's the least you can do tbh.

 

[IainC]

We cannot guarantee that your communications within the Expansion and any other personally identifiable information will not be disclosed to third parties. For example, we may be obliged to supply such information by the authorities, or third parties may unlawfully intercept or access transmissions or private communications. Furthermore, we may (and you hereby authorise us to) disclose any information about you that we deem necessary to private entities, law enforcement officials or any other official entity as we, in our sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate for the resolution of any problems or for any investigations.

Clearly says here that you accept that GOA can pass on information to a third party. Same thing as my scammer accepted when entering my account.

That quote is from the US Eula. I can't find anything remotely like it in our EULA as I'm fairly sure European data-protection laws prohibit that sort of agreement. The point that people are missing here is that I'm not protecting the person who took the items because I want to, or because I'm too lazy to cut and paste logs into a reply, but because it would be illegal for me to do so. Goa could get sued, I could be held personally liable and could potentially go to prison.

 

[cemi0]

That quote is from the US Eula. I can't find anything remotely like it in our EULA as I'm fairly sure European data-protection laws prohibit that sort of agreement. The point that people are missing here is that I'm not protecting the person who took the items because I want to, or because I'm too lazy to cut and paste logs into a reply, but because it would be illegal for me to do so. Goa could get sued, I could be held personally liable and could potentially go to prison.

See section 9. Disclosure of Information in the EU EULA (also included). The point that you are missing here is that we dont buy the French privacy law shit because GOA earlier gave out information in situations like these.

Now you could stop this conversation very easily by simply posting that section regarding privacy in the french law and highlight out the difference for when:
a) scammer hacks victims email
b) victim give info to scammer
I asked this question 4-5 times, everytime you avoided it and then after claim you answered all my questions, some of them many times. I have to ask again because your reply isnt good enough/doesnt answer my question.

EDIT: Oh, and now you all of a sudden blaim the EUROPEAN law not French. Im starting to think you are just filling us up with bullshit. Else you would have just stopped this earlier by showing us that law.

 

[gillan]

A question, I have a computer at my girlfriends and at home, and I share password/login via msn or email or whatever (to myself, my gf dont play daoc) then a hacker use keylogger or whatever and get my details and I get scammed, have I then commited a violation agains CoC and forfited any chance for customer support? How can I then prove that I have not given out any details to any other person? Should I really need to prove it?

 

[Cirandi]

First of all: I'm very sorry to hear this Cemi0. I hope you can get yourself together and keep playing as you seem to have quite a lot of friends in this game. (I obviously don't know you as i'm an alb and tend to put an arrow into/stab/whack/nuke etc every mid i see.)

Second of all: I agree with Requiel, you can't give people who break the rules favours, no matter how liked they are in-game, which some ppl seem to suggest and which really disturbs me.

GOA aren't providing the game servers to be nice or because they feel they have an obligation to the daoc community to do so. They do it to make money, as every company in the western world. They also don't provide support to be nice, but to solve problems that occur that could possibly result in their company making less money.
This does, imo, not include giving stuff back to someone who broke the rules. You admitted you broke the rules. I think you should be banned, even though the effects of your rule-braking was not positive for you (as i guess was your intention). The guy who traded your stuff shouldn't have anything at all to worry about (in this game at least, irl is another matter, i'd enjoy kicking the living hell out of him but that's a different matter) in-game as it was you breaking the rules, not him.

Cemi0, you seemed to take this the proper way at the beginning of this thread, kinda "I know i broke the rules and i accept that i'm fooked because of it" and i think that's a very honourable thing. This is easy for me to say of course since i haven't lost any items. But then again, i haven't shared any account information either so i'm feeling pretty safe in that matter.

And again, i'm sorry for you even if some of the things i write kinda makes it sound as if i'm not.

 

[Raven]

That quote is from the US Eula. I can't find anything remotely like it in our EULA as I'm fairly sure European data-protection laws prohibit that sort of agreement. The point that people are missing here is that I'm not protecting the person who took the items because I want to, or because I'm too lazy to cut and paste logs into a reply, but because it would be illegal for me to do so. Goa could get sued, I could be held personally liable and could potentially go to prison.

you (goa) have told people before which toon items have been traded to...so are you saying you have "broken the law" in the past but are not willing to do it now?

 

[Raven]

here is an example, in this case it was someone who emptied a guild vault https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=25777&highlight=stolen