human automatics

[TdC]

you know those things that you program yourself with? memorised typable stuff like phone numbers, PINs, passwords etc? why is it that when you *think* about these things you don't remember them/can't do them?

example: you stand at a cash machine trying to remember your PIN, but if you put your hand on the keyboard you type it in instantly.

does it have a name? I'm curious heh.

 

[caLLous]

Too much weed smoking? Memory lapse? Stupidity?

 

[mank!]

I can safely say I've never suffered that. In fact I have to run my pin number through my head at least a dozen times before I go to a cash machine so I don't stand there like a lemon.

 

[babs]

I do it, there's people I phone whose numbers I couldn't tell you.

 

[TdC]

in my case it's my internet password at work. it's one of those machine generated things that look like Go$ut98GP0IYG)U
I couldn't tell you what it is, but I can type it easilly.

 

[Vae]

Its like programming your body to automatically do something e.g. a sequence of martial arts or dance moves. Do the first one and the rest automatically follow. Ditto start a telephone number and the rest follows.

I find that I remember the rhythm/meter of long numbers as you would, say, a piece of music.

 

[caLLous]

It's to do with subconscious and repitition innit?

 

[xane]

I have to admit I need to think about it when I recall a number, I have to imagine my hand typing it on the keypad. To make matters worse, the UK telephone keypad is the wrong way round to most others, like ATMs and calculators, so you need to be careful !

I did read a book about people who can remember huge lists, like Pi to thousands of decimal places.

Apparently, the first step is to link things together in a list, say you have a shopping list of; soap, toothpaste, beefburgers and washing powder, you just link them together one by one with images; washing your teeth with soap (soap to toothpaste), minty white beefburger (toothpaste to burgers), putting burgers in the washing machine (burgers to washing powder), you just remember the first item and that kicks you off, the more stupid the image the better it is to recall.

The same method can be used for numbers if you use one or more graphic representations for each digit, i.e. a snake for a five, a ball for a zero, a pen for a one, etc, you can come up with similar associations.

 

[Vae]

The way cardcounters work it is that they have every card is a specific image and thus use the images to tell a story in their head to remember the sequence. The same principle can be applied to any sequence.

 

[TdC]

amazing! my mum sings songs to remember peoples birthdays, is that one as well or is she just a daft old bat?

 

[Vae]

Most of the memory techniques mentioned above can be found here with a bit more scientific explanation.

http://brain.web-us.com/memory/mnemonic_techniques.htm

 

[Doh_boy]

Aye, the world record bloke says the way he does it is that he imagines a journey and the numbers are people or things he meets on the way.

as for mrs tdc Snr, that's a popular way to remember things. One I know of is for days in the month...

30 days have september, april, june and november.
All the rest have 31
except february who's just shite.*



*the last line always changes from version to version, I figure you'd remember feb since it's shite, small and changes every four years.

 

[Will]

I saw a memory guy who could memorise the order of 6 decks of cards shuffled together. He did it by imagining the cards jumping out at him as he played a game of UT, in a custom level which looked a bit like his house.

Bizarre.

I'm like that with phone numbers at work. Recently, I've had to relearn them all, because I now type them into the keypad, rather than into a phone. Hard damn work, I can tell you.

 

[mank!]

All this visualising for memory stuff, I just can't do it. I can't visualise like that at all. I also struggle to remember numbers, supposedly I have a very small short term memory...

 

[xane]

All this visualising for memory stuff, I just can't do it. I can't visualise like that at all. I also struggle to remember numbers, supposedly I have a very small short term memory...

Me too, but I did read a book about people who can remember huge lists, like Pi to thousands of decimal places.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Isn't it sometimes referred to as "Zen"?

For example, have you ever snapped out of a trance while driving and realised that you can't remember anything for the past half hour or so? You're not tired, haven't been drifting off and you've been navigating all kinds of awkward junctions but you haven't been doing it actively?

It happens to me with games as well - I was much better at Street Fighter 2 when I wasn't actively concentrating on what I was doing...I couldn't force myself into that state and it did require months of practise first to learn all the moves etc but when I relaxed and stopped trying to win I'd suddenly become unstoppable. Likewise Rez, which I can't complete unless I kind of drift off while I'm playing.

I imagine this is what martial arts is like. You train your body with the techniques but when it comes down to it your body uses them automatically to defend yourself - if you were considering what to do next you'd be too slow to actually protect yourself!

 

[granny]

I think the distiction you're looking for TdC is that these kind of actions become part of your autonomic nervous system ie. they no longer require concious mental action to remember - like riding a bike or driving a car. Similarly playing a musical instrument - there comes a point when all of a sudden you will find that you no longer have to actually think to convert that blob on the sheet music into a note and then into finger movements to produce the note but that the notes simply come out of the instrument naturally.

It's when the nervous pathways used to acheive those actions become so well used that they form permanant links in your brain & nervous system and actual physical and chemical changes take place making them fixed. It's analagous to transferring things rom short-term to long-term memory but has more of a physical component too.

Steven Rose has written a great book called The Making of Memory that is a superb read and one of the first books that gave an insight into the revolution there's been in neuroscience in the last decade or so.

 

[SilverHood]

I have that too TdC

can't remember my pincode usually, but i just sorta stick my hand over the keypad, cover the pad with my wallet, beep beep beep beep, and I can get my money.

It is quite scary

 

[xane]

Ican't remember my pincode usually, but i just sorta stick my hand over the keypad, cover the pad with my wallet, beep beep beep beep, and I can get my money.

Same here, bad memory, but I did read a book about people who can remember huge lists, like Pi to thousands of decimal places.

 

[Will]

Same here, bad memory, but I did read a book about people who can remember huge lists, like Pi to thousands of decimal places.

Badum tish.

 

[Vae]

Isn't it sometimes referred to as "Zen"?

I imagine this is what martial arts is like. You train your body with the techniques but when it comes down to it your body uses them automatically to defend yourself - if you were considering what to do next you'd be too slow to actually protect yourself!

That is exactly what Martial arts is like. Reflexes and automatic response from your body so you react to everything automatically with the moves your body has done so many times.

I've experienced "Zen" as such a very few times when doing archery. You're standing there and switch your mind off and totally relax. You look at the target, draw up and when you release you can tell exactly where the arrows gone as it leaves the bow and I mean EXACTLY i.e. Just down right from dead centre within the compound 10 circle rather than "that was a good shot heading for the middle".
It's a nice feeling to experience the "zone" that you sometimes hear people talk about - where everything is going perfectly.

 

[babs]

Yeah, that's a nice feeling, I used to get it in basketball and now darts (occasionally). If only my golfing could benefit....

 

[Will]

I used to get it in fencing all the time. A bit weird coming to with your sword at the other guys throat.

Especially when it is a rude move to do, and even more so in sabre, which doesn't have a nice rubber tip.

I get it cycling as well, but its a very different sport, so the feeling is very different as well.

 

[SilverHood]

That is exactly what Martial arts is like. Reflexes and automatic response from your body so you react to everything automatically with the moves your body has done so many times.

I've experienced "Zen" as such a very few times when doing archery. You're standing there and switch your mind off and totally relax. You look at the target, draw up and when you release you can tell exactly where the arrows gone as it leaves the bow and I mean EXACTLY i.e. Just down right from dead centre within the compound 10 circle rather than "that was a good shot heading for the middle".
It's a nice feeling to experience the "zone" that you sometimes hear people talk about - where everything is going perfectly.

Used to get that feeling when I was a competition swimmer...
Would get ready etc, and my mind would just suddenly focus on exactly what I had to do.
I'd get up on the start blocks, and when the shot was fired, I'd do the most amazing start, pure streamline, almost as if I was watching myself in 3rd person.... perfectly up to the surface, and then I'd know exactly how many arm strokes was til the end of the lane. Swam some amazing races back then...
Quite funny, I get it when playing FPS games too... knowing when to shoot that sniper rifle at the exact time for a headshot at the other end of the map. Then I get all excited and it goes away again.

 

[mank!]

I got that too when I played Q2. If I tried to psych myself up for a game or practice really hard for it, I'd invariably suck terribly. If I went into the game cold, without playing beforehand, calm and not caring I would play really well. I never managed to get myself into that state, it just happens. I've never got it whilst driving but then I'm still learning, so drifting off would be pretty fatal.

 

[SilverHood]

funny you should say that about psyching up for a game Mank.... I usually played terribly in games and practises II had prepared for, but the last minute "Silver! Need you to play war in 2 mins" jobbies I played much better.

Wonder if it's possible to learn to do this at will... would be a damn handy skill in any job or sport.

 

[xane]

I get that Zen moment, when I am posting on Freddyshouse, suddenly I'll be calm and relaxed and I'll be able to type reams of complete bollocks that everyone will read and comment on.

See !? It happened just then !

Happens quite a lot actually.

 

[mank!]

funny you should say that about psyching up for a game Mank.... I usually played terribly in games and practises II had prepared for, but the last minute "Silver! Need you to play war in 2 mins" jobbies I played much better.

Wonder if it's possible to learn to do this at will... would be a damn handy skill in any job or sport.

That's exactly what I mean! I think meditation and so on and so forth could help to attain that state, if you believe in it.

 

[granny]

Used to get that feeling when I was a competition swimmer...
Would get ready etc, and my mind would just suddenly focus on exactly what I had to do.
I'd get up on the start blocks, and when the shot was fired, I'd do the most amazing start, pure streamline, almost as if I was watching myself in 3rd person.... perfectly up to the surface, and then I'd know exactly how many arm strokes was til the end of the lane. Swam some amazing races back then...
Quite funny, I get it when playing FPS games too... knowing when to shoot that sniper rifle at the exact time for a headshot at the other end of the map. Then I get all excited and it goes away again.

It's called zoning innit. Sprts pros go on about it all the time, I remember seeing some Horizon program about it or something, think it's to do with alpha brainwaves.

 

[GDW]

I forgotten the subject of this thread