Hebrew word for disproportionate?

[Paradroid]

...
Last time I looked the Paisley Royal Engineers barracks weren't firing missiles into The Republic of East Kilbride.
...

They would if they knew where it was.

 

[Stoned Viking]

Bloody jews... They where given a land within palestine because the world felt sorry for them after ww2... its all a coverup so the americans can get total control of the middle-east.. Give iran nukes and bring back hitler..

 

[Calaen]

Bloody jews... They where given a land within palestine because the world felt sorry for them after ww2... its all a coverup so the americans can get total control of the middle-east.. Give iran nukes and bring back hitler..

lol why complain about the americans taking over and then ask for hitler to come back lol tosspot.

 

[old.user4556]

That's got to be the most retarded thing i've ever heard.

 

[Milkshake]

The bunny questions.

 

[throdgrain]

Bloody jews... They where given a land within palestine because the world felt sorry for them after ww2... its all a coverup so the americans can get total control of the middle-east.. Give iran nukes and bring back hitler..

Hey mate




Are you some sort of c*nt?

 

[TdC]

just so everyone knows, I am not a "don't mention the war" type and won't be doing much editing. however, anyone else wanting to act like a brainless cock will be treated as such.

 

[ECA]

You know what I think the problem is?

Jews have small willies.

 

[Calaen]

You know what I think the problem is?

Jews have small willies.

I have a small willy


untill you play with it

 

[ECA]

I have a small willy


untill you play with it

?? Girls don't have winkies.

 

[Tom]

just so everyone knows, I am not a "don't mention the war" type and won't be doing much editing. however, anyone else wanting to act like a brainless cock will be treated as such.

There are cocks with brains?

 

[Wij]

There are cocks with brains?

My cock does all the thinking tbh.

 

[GDW]

There are cocks with brains?

Only ginger ones

 

[Escape]

Sucks that this spineless government doesn't stand up to terrorism.

British anger at terror celebration
The commemoration of Israeli bombings that killing 92 people has caused offence

AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish terrorists involved in the attack.

Simon McDonald, the British Ambassador in Tel Aviv, and John Jenkins, the Consul-General in Jerusalem, have written to the municipality, stating: “We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated.”

In particular they demanded the removal of the plaque that pays tribute to the Irgun, the Jewish terrorist branch headed by Menachem Begin, the future Prime Minister, which carried out the attack on July 22, 1946.

The plaque presents as fact the Irgun’s claim that people died because the British ignored warning calls. “For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated,” it states.

Mr McDonald and Dr Jenkins denied that the British had been warned, adding that even if they had “this does not absolve those who planted the bomb from responsibility for the deaths”.

The controversy over the plaque and the two-day celebration of the bombing, sponsored by Irgun veterans and the right-wing Menachem Begin Heritage Centre, goes to the heart of the debate over the use of political violence in the Middle East. Yesterday Mr Netanyahu argued in a speech celebrating the attack that the Irgun were governed by morals, unlike fighters from groups such as Hamas.

“It’s very important to make the distinction between terror groups and freedom fighters, and between terror action and legitimate military action,” he said.

I agree with Netanyahu, not in his support of terrorism, but what he says about making a distinction between those who resist an occuption and the occupiers.

 

[`mongoose]

I just hope's as sanguine when the Palestinians declare a hezzbolla day in 30 years time.

I'm not Israel's biggest fan and it has fuck all to do with their religion - I think the country has classic "little man" syndrome. They're looking for conflict in a region already at boilling point - we should stay the fuck out tbh and leave them to it.

Of course we won't do that whilst they're buying their planes, tanks, bombs etc from British Companies.

M

 

[DaGaffer]

I just hope's as sanguine when the Palestinians declare a hezzbolla day in 30 years time.

I'm not Israel's biggest fan and it has fuck all to do with their religion - I think the country has classic "little man" syndrome. They're looking for conflict in a region already at boilling point - we should stay the fuck out tbh and leave them to it.

Of course we won't do that whilst they're buying their planes, tanks, bombs etc from British Companies.

M

The UK doesn't sell much (or any) defence equipment to Israel. The US and France have traditionally been their suppliers. We actually sell a lot more equipment to the Arabs, and the UK has actually been Saudi Arabia's largest arms supplier since the 1980s. UK Gov has traditionally been very 'arabist' and with the exception of Suez, quite cool towards Israel.

 

[`mongoose]

I could've sworn I saw something where we'd supplied some 'training vehicles' and the what not to Israel - I must've been confused :/

M

 

[Insane]

I could've sworn I saw something where we'd supplied some 'training vehicles' and the what not to Israel - I must've been confused :/

M

Breaking News
Israel to use new "Training Vehicles" to guard Southern Lebannon

 

[Vae]

The Uk Foreign Office has had a reputation for being very pro Arab and Anti-Israeli for a long time hence the arms sales to Saudi etc. This reputation was satirised in programs such as Yes Prime Minister.

 

[Escape]

It's all about the benjamins!

BAE depends on Saudi sales to fund its research (Bribing for Britain).

Israel doesn't need to buy from Britain as they get freebies from the US.

 

[Paradroid]

Webby linkadage.

Morality is not on our side

By Ze'ev Maoz

There's practically a holy consensus right now that the war in the North is a just war and that morality is on our side. The bitter truth must be said: this holy consensus is based on short-range selective memory, an introverted worldview, and double standards.

This war is not a just war. Israel is using excessive force without distinguishing between civilian population and enemy, whose sole purpose is extortion. That is not to say that morality and justice are on Hezbollah's side. Most certainly not. But the fact that Hezbollah "started it" when it kidnapped soldiers from across an international border does not even begin to tilt the scales of justice toward our side.

Let's start with a few facts. We invaded a sovereign state, and occupied its capital in 1982. In the process of this occupation, we dropped several tons of bombs from the air, ground and sea, while wounding and killing thousands of civilians. Approximately 14,000 civilians were killed between June and September of 1982, according to a conservative estimate. The majority of these civilians had nothing to do with the PLO, which provided the official pretext for the war.

In Operations Accountability and Grapes of Wrath, we caused the mass flight of about 500,000 refugees from southern Lebanon on each occasion. There are no exact data on the number of casualties in these operations, but one can recall that in Operation Grapes of Wrath, we bombed a shelter in the village of Kafr Kana which killed 103 civilians. The bombing may have been accidental, but that did not make the operation any more moral.

On July 28, 1989, we kidnapped Sheikh Obeid, and on May 12, 1994, we kidnapped Mustafa Dirani, who had captured Ron Arad. Israel held these two people and another 20-odd Lebanese detainees without trial, as "negotiating chips." That which is permissible to us is, of course, forbidden to Hezbollah.

Hezbollah crossed a border that is recognized by the international community. That is true. What we are forgetting is that ever since our withdrawal from Lebanon, the Israel Air Force has conducted photo-surveillance sorties on a daily basis in Lebanese airspace. While these flights caused no casualties, border violations are border violations. Here too, morality is not on our side.

So much for the history of morality. Now, let's consider current affairs. What exactly is the difference between launching Katyushas into civilian population centers in Israel and the Israel Air Force bombing population centers in south Beirut, Tyre, Sidon and Tripoli? The IDF has fired thousands of shells into south Lebanon villages, alleging that Hezbollah men are concealed among the civilian population. Approximately 25 Israeli civilians have been killed as a result of Katyusha missiles to date. The number of dead in Lebanon, the vast majority comprised of civilians who have nothing to do with Hezbollah, is more than 300.

Worse yet, bombing infrastructure targets such as power stations, bridges and other civil facilities turns the entire Lebanese civilian population into a victim and hostage, even if we are not physically harming civilians. The use of bombings to achieve a diplomatic goal - namely, coercing the Lebanese government into implementing UN Security Council Resolution 1559 - is an attempt at political blackmail, and no less than the kidnapping of IDF soldiers by Hezbollah is the aim of bringing about a prisoner exchange.

There is a propaganda aspect to this war, and it involves a competition as to who is more miserable. Each side tries to persuade the world that it is more miserable. As in every propaganda campaign, the use of information is selective, distorted and self-righteous. If we want to base our information (or shall we call it propaganda?) policy on the assumption that the international environment is going to buy the dubious merchandise that we are selling, be it out of ignorance or hypocrisy, then fine. But in terms of our own national soul searching, we owe ourselves to confront the bitter truth - maybe we will win this conflict on the military field, maybe we will make some diplomatic gains, but on the moral plane, we have no advantage, and we have no special status.

The writer is a professor of political science at Tel Aviv university.

What I don't understand is this: all the rhetoric from the US, Israel & the UK is of "sustainable peace" - they need more time to ensure a "sustainable peace" (as opposed to an immediate "peace" in the form of a immediate cease-fire).

But it's clear that Hezbolla's existance was a reaction to the 1982 Israeli invasion and illegal occupation (with the oppression and murder of thousands of Lebanese).

So....what exactly are they doing?

If the US/Israel/UK all know (and we do know) that what their doing will create more anti-Israeli sentiment in Lebanon (and in neighbouring countries like Syria & Iran) .... what is it exactly that Israel are trying to do, in this small window of opportunity they have, to realise their stated goals (ie to ensure a "sustainable-peace")?

Everone knows that crippling the countries infrastructure is cementing support against Israel both from inside Lebanon and the international community. It will do more to recruit anti-Israeli "terrorists" in Lebanon than anything Hezbolla could come up with.

The only thing that makes any sense is that Israel are trying to create a wider war. They're deliberately hammering Lebanon (whilst they can) to draw Syria and Iran (probably their real goal) into the conflict.

They've probably said: Fuk it, we've got a terrorist problem in Lebanon anyway, let's knock them back into the middle-ages and create a buffer-zone to help stop Hezbolla attacks on Israel...and if it spills out into a larger war then it's all good.

Anyone else find the de-humanising disturbing? It sounds like ethnic cleansing: give us a couple of more weeks and we'll have the problem "sorted" ... which, let's face it, is the only way to achieve "sustainable peace" when bombing another country.

What if this was France destroying Spain over some bombings ETA carried out? Would everyone be happy giving them a couple of more weeks to finish-off crippling the country (punishing the entire population, dropping bombs all over the place, killing civs etc)? Is it ok since they're "far away"?

 

[DaGaffer]

Webby linkadage.

Interestingly, that article seems to be a minority view on that site. There seem to be a lot more, 'we need to win' editorials.

What I don't understand is this: all the rhetoric from the US, Israel & the UK is of "sustainable peace" - they need more time to ensure a "sustainable peace" (as opposed to an immediate "peace" in the form of a immediate cease-fire).

"Sustainable peace" means one where the Israelis don't feel the need to have to do this again a few months from now when Hezbollah kidnap more soldiers or fire fire more rockets into Israel. An immediate cease-fire without any kind of reciprocity from Hezbollah or a diminishing of their ability to attack, makes no sense from an Israeli perspective.

But it's clear that Hezbolla's existance was a reaction to the 1982 Israeli invasion and illegal occupation (with the oppression and murder of thousands of Lebanese).

But why did Israel go into Lebanon in 1982 in the first place? It was do degrade the ability of Hezbollah's predecessor in the 'attack Israel' business, the PLO. They didn't go into Lebanon with an eye on what was going to happen 20 years down the line, they did it to solve an immediate problem. Almost all of Israel's military adventures have been about pushing back enemies so they can't hit Israel easily; the Golan Heights, Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon. And what happens when Israel gets rid of a buffer? The attacks start again. The Israelis aren't dumb, they know they'll be creating a new generation of enemies, but after sixty years, they probably think "what the Hell, they'll hate us anyway".

So....what exactly are they doing?

If the US/Israel/UK all know (and we do know) that what their doing will create more anti-Israeli sentiment in Lebanon (and in neighbouring countries like Syria & Iran) .... what is it exactly that Israel are trying to do, in this small window of opportunity they have, to realise their stated goals (ie to ensure a "sustainable-peace")?

Everone knows that crippling the countries infrastructure is cementing support against Israel both from inside Lebanon and the international community. It will do more to recruit anti-Israeli "terrorists" in Lebanon than anything Hezbolla could come up with.

See above. I think there's a certain degree of fatalism in Israeli attitudes. Having your backs to the sea for so long will do that. There is also the other psychological factor of 'the strong man', which is hugely important in middle eastern politics. The dove of peace tends to get shot in those parts. Its bullshit I know, but its also the reason why democracry tends to fail; "Might is Right" is what people expect from their leaders and the lack of it in their enemies is seen as weakness.

The only thing that makes any sense is that Israel are trying to create a wider war. They're deliberately hammering Lebanon (whilst they can) to draw Syria and Iran (probably their real goal) into the conflict.

They've probably said: Fuk it, we've got a terrorist problem in Lebanon anyway, let's knock them back into the middle-ages and create a buffer-zone to help stop Hezbolla attacks on Israel...and if it spills out into a larger war then it's all good.

I don't think its the 'only thing' that makes sense at all. I think you're spot on with the buffer zone, but then, that's the only thing that's been shown to work even slightly for the Israelis. Ironically, you're probably right that a wider war would help the Israelis (although I don't think they're actually pursuing one), not least in terms of public opinion. If Syria went in to 'protect' South Lebanon, they would hold the PR advantage for a while, but if Iran got involved, Israel would go back to being the underdog again. It won't happen though, because depite their posturing, all the conventional armies in the region are terrified of the Israelis, and with good reason. Plus, Iran would have to ally itself with Baathist Syria or Hashemite Jordan to get involved in a ground war, and neither scenario is very likely.

Anyone else find the de-humanising disturbing? It sounds like ethnic cleansing: give us a couple of more weeks and we'll have the problem "sorted" ... which, let's face it, is the only way to achieve "sustainable peace" when bombing another country.

Yep, it is disturbing. But its not surprising. Its entirely correct that Israel created this problem for themselves, but its easy for us to sit on the sidelines and pontificate when we're not surrounded by enemies with 30 times our numbers (and that's just the immediate neighbours). This isn't to condone Israel, but it is to understand them.

What if this was France destroying Spain over some bombings ETA carried out? Would everyone be happy giving them a couple of more weeks to finish-off crippling the country (punishing the entire population, dropping bombs all over the place, killing civs etc)? Is it ok since they're "far away"?

Its seductive to make that analogy, but its simply not valid (I've seen the same argument made about Northern Ireland). If Spain were supplying ETA with weapons, had them in their government and failed to reign them in when they started cross-border attacks, then you would have a valid comparison (and Spain's actions, not ETA's, would be regarded as an act of war, and France would retaliate in an Israeli-like manner); but Lebanon won't (or more likely, can't) control Hezbollah. And I know you can argue that that is an Israeli-created problem as well, but it doesn't alter the situation for the Israelis right now.

 

[Escape]

Its entirely correct that Israel created this problem for themselves, but its easy for us to sit on the sidelines and pontificate when we're not surrounded by enemies with 30 times our numbers (and that's just the immediate neighbours). This isn't to condone Israel, but it is to understand them.

Everyone is trying to understand the idiocy of Israel, searching for excuses where there are none. Israel is a fascist state, created by religious extremists to fulfill a biblical prophecy.


"God promised us this land, here, read my Bible!" Do you think I'd get away with that in Monte Carlo?
Would the US donate $trillions to my cause? Would I be exempt from the Geneva conventions (whilst remaining a "respected" member of the UN), could I get away with murdering aid workers, journalists and targeted assassinations of UN workers?

Not to mention creating an aparthied society, forcing millions of people into concentration camps and repressing them with collective punishment.



The "anti-semitic" British government is bending over backwards to allow the humanitarian disaster in Lebanon. It pisses me off when idiots support violence and wars in the name of peace. When has that ever worked in the past 6000 years, or even the past 60years of Israel's history.

 

[throdgrain]

Escape you dont read anything that anyone else writes, for example the very well written post before yours, you simple use every opportunity you can to spout off anti-israeli bs.
Very tiresome.

 

[Escape]

Escape you dont read anything that anyone else writes, for example the very well written post before yours, you simple use every opportunity you can to spout off anti-israeli bs.
Very tiresome.

DaGaffa didn't add anything of substance, only his views on Israel's sorry situation. But at least some people have opinions and don't whine all the time like 4 year olds.


Sure, I despise Israel's actions and have strong reasons for it. This thread was started to discuss those reasons, if you have a problem educating yourself, stop reading?

 

[throdgrain]

Thats the point, you're not educating anyone, just wailing, like someone in the university bar, with too much opinion and not enough experience.

 

[DaGaffer]

Everyone is trying to understand the idiocy of Israel, searching for excuses where there are none. Israel is a fascist state, created by religious extremists to fulfill a biblical prophecy.

In your opinion. I don't like what Israel are doing, but I do understand it. And it wasn't founded by religious extremists (Zionism was actually a secular nationalist movement that came out of 19th century European nationalist thinking), and its demonstrably not fascist.

"God promised us this land, here, read my Bible!" Do you think I'd get away with that in Monte Carlo?
Would the US donate $trillions to my cause? Would I be exempt from the Geneva conventions (whilst remaining a "respected" member of the UN), could I get away with murdering aid workers, journalists and targeted assassinations of UN workers?

They didn't say that, they just said it was about time they had a homeland after 2000 years. And if you had millions of like-minded folks living in the US, maybe you could get away with it in Monte Carlo. Yep they've killed aid workers, journalists and UN workers, who hasn't round there?

Not to mention creating an aparthied society, forcing millions of people into concentration camps and repressing them with collective punishment.

Once again, a skewing of the facts. Apartheid, yes, sort of. Millions of people in Concentration camps? No, don't think so. Its an easy dig at the Isrealis. Interned without trial? Oh, it must be a concentration camp then. You weaken your argument with this nonsense.

The "anti-semitic" British government is bending over backwards to allow the humanitarian disaster in Lebanon. It pisses me off when idiots support violence and wars in the name of peace. When has that ever worked in the past 6000 years, or even the past 60years of Israel's history.

There are countless wars that resulted in peace. Don't be so silly. And, in the case of Israel's 60 year history, unfortunately the lesson they've learned are that they only get brief periods of peace after giving one of their neighbours a good kicking.

 

[Doh_boy]

There are countless wars that resulted in peace. Don't be so silly. And, in the case of Israel's 60 year history, unfortunately the lesson they've learned are that they only get brief periods of peace after giving one of their neighbours a good kicking.

I think this is the crux of the problem, the idea of 'we must give someone a kicking' is so ingrained into the Isreali pysche that it gives the palestinians less reason to trust that the Isreali's would stop if they did. As much as I understand the Isreali standpoint I'm less inclined to forgive them since they create the ideal situation for terrorist recruiters when they randomly bulldoze people's houses and shoot kids for throwing rocks. Since palestine isn't, really, a viable, working state, you (or at least I don't) blame them for finding it hard to stop terrorists in their midst. Add to this the 'illegal' Isreali settlements, the feeling of persecution and desperation (especially when added to their situation, lack of good inrastructure, etc ).

BUT, as much as I understand why they were voted in, I don't see any good happening when hammas are 'in power'. As much as some people might say that everyone in palestinian politics are covert/overt terrorists, surely covert is better than overt.

Also I think most of the criticism of Isreal is borne out of the fact that, as I said above, they are the better set-out government out of the two (three?). Given this, the expectation is that they would be more sensible about things and be first to barter for peace. I'm not saying this is a valid criticism or not.

As for the Zionists, I always thought they were terrorists and that they, unashamedly, targetted British interests. King David hotel being one (which is quite pertinent since Isreal were just celebrating the event this week. Which put the british consul's back up a bit ) I was listening to a program on R4 which detailed a plot to kill Bevan and plots to kill other military personnel. A lot of this was done by Irgun, which was (as far as I remember) led by the first leader of Isreal. Maybe it's the BBC but every leader of Isreal in the past seems to have been, or rumored to have been, a terrorist* in the past.

*arguments based on 'he wasn't a terrorist, he was a freedom fighter' will be ignored

 

[throdgrain]

you're right too, Begin was a terrorist. I used to work with an old bloke who was in the army post WW2, in Palestine, and he had lots of storys about the jewish terrorists.

 

[Tom]

shoot kids for throwing rocks

If an angry mob was chucking rocks at me, I'd shoot them.