Games Guild Wars 2

[old.Tohtori]

Logged in for the halloween event.
Saw the amount of stuff.
Logged out and went back to xcom before my hunter/gatherer ocd kicked in

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I'm on a strict rationing of Xcom atm. Its a game I want to last.

Still enjoying GW2, though I'd like to see ArenaNet do something about the nightcapping. Perhaps make the various pieces of real estate tick for less when off prime time for a particular time zone. Maybe use a sliding scale so it gradually ramps up as you approach prime time and gradually drops off afterwards. So still worth taking keeps and such. Nightcappers can still have their fun but it won't destroy the balance for servers that don't have a Chinese contingent that come in during the off hours on a Euro server.

 

[Athan]

As discussed before if they're going to make ticks vary it needs to be based on actual population ratios in maps (or overall in WvW), not on some guess of when the prime time is for a set of Worlds (which can easily vary per World).

The thing is it still won't make 'enough' difference as you'll still face a 'night-capping' World having capped and upgraded everything, so if they have sufficient people in your World's peak-time you'll have a hell of a time taking Forts/Keeps anyway. And if you do they'll still manage to take them back off you 'overnight' even if you have fully upgraded and sieged them up.

 

[Ctuchik]

Yeah, shit like that is always a problem when you have regional servers and no amount of tweaks will make a difference in the end.

 

[Himse]

I haven't played for a while, I'm sort of bored of it.

I've played WvW numerous times, and it only seems like run to x place, get rolled by zerg, run back and fourth between X & Y.

SPvP is a bit meh also, there's only so much capture the point I can take without being bored.

If a 5v5 scene develops in WvW I suppose I might play properly again, I've changed my mind completely about the game.

 

[- English -]

I haven't played for a while, I'm sort of bored of it.

I've played WvW numerous times, and it only seems like run to x place, get rolled by zerg, run back and fourth between X & Y.

SPvP is a bit meh also, there's only so much capture the point I can take without being bored.

If a 5v5 scene develops in WvW I suppose I might play properly again, I've changed my mind completely about the game.

I agree with you, other than just not having time to play - when do I theres no "appeal" to it. Its why I was moaning about no RPs or something in WVW to make me want to go out there and progress my character. I get no benefit from "putting the hours" in unlike DAOC.

 

[Himse]

I agree with you, other than just not having time to play - when do I theres no "appeal" to it. Its why I was moaning about no RPs or something in WVW to make me want to go out there and progress my character. I get no benefit from "putting the hours" in unlike DAOC.

Yeah I understand that, I think it's the just back and fourth and constant zerg that gets to me, I liked 8v8, but in GW there is no such thing, it won't even let me be on the same team in SPVP as my mates ffs :\

 

[- English -]

Yeah I understand that, I think it's the just back and fourth and constant zerg that gets to me, I liked 8v8, but in GW there is no such thing, it won't even let me be on the same team in SPVP as my mates ffs :\

you can but you need to do a tournament,

it has positives and negatives ... 1 positive for a random player is that you dont get put up against set 5v5 teams all the time

 

[Himse]

you can but you need to do a tournament,

it has positives and negatives ... 1 positive for a random player is that you dont get put up against set 5v5 teams all the time

I guess it'd be better in WvW, that was good about DAoC, you could meet anything.

 

[Mirt]

Looks like my new policy of waiting till a MMO is 6 months old before playing is working - glad I avoided this POS.

 

[Ctuchik]

Just that this game isn't 6 months old yet so you don't know.

 

[Moriath]

Looks like my new policy of waiting till a MMO is 6 months old before playing is working - glad I avoided this POS.

Really isn't a pos and that's a big statement to make on two or three views your so funny

 

[Himse]

Looks like my new policy of waiting till a MMO is 6 months old before playing is working - glad I avoided this POS.

It's not a bad game on any level, it just needs to develop more and have an active WvW5v5 scene IMO.

At the moment people are still getting used to the WvW concept, unlike us old DAoC heads who know it like walking almost.

When they sort out some of the classes and 5v5 comes out to play, it'll be a much better game.

 

[Poag]

Moved my chars over to Gunnars Hold a few days ago. Did a little WvW on my baby Thief last night. Seemed fairly good. Significantly not one realm held the entire map from overnight, which was good!

 

[Gahn]

Moved my chars over to Gunnars Hold a few days ago. Did a little WvW on my baby Thief last night. Seemed fairly good. Significantly not one realm held the entire map from overnight, which was good!

Tis morning was all painted Blue again no worries, froggies are over all the place 24/7 ^^

 

[Poag]

Does seem to be the Frenchies that have 24 hour coverage. Had it on FSP have it on Gunnars think it was French on Vabbi aswell.

Maybe the French are just all unemployed lay about garlic chewers......

 

[Tilda]

Surely the solution is to scale everything based on your servers population in WWW compared to the others?

So if the server ratios are 1:10:50

Point ticks would scale, giving more to underpopulated world
Upgrade ticks would scale, giving slower upgrades to overpopulated
Guard levels/numbers could scale, giving more to underpopulated
You could even do damage/absorb - so the underpopulated get a damage/absorb % reduction
Gold/magic find could also scale.

Would surely help to swing the balance, and the nightcappers would have to accept it would take longer to upgrade, and be harder to take/keep stuff.

 

[Mabs]

do the same thing they did in daoc - more keeps you have, lower lvl your relic guards are
many ways to fix it

 

[Mirt]

It's not a bad game on any level, it just needs to develop more and have an active WvW5v5 scene IMO.

At the moment people are still getting used to the WvW concept, unlike us old DAoC heads who know it like walking almost.

When they sort out some of the classes and 5v5 comes out to play, it'll be a much better game.

I remember when people said the same thing about WAR and WoW at the beginning, I don't believe it'll happen :[

 

[Mirt]

Just that this game isn't 6 months old yet so you don't know.

Well if something amazing happens in the next couple of month that would be great and I'll be happy to eat some humble pie, but I'm pretty sure it won't happen. Ever since I heard there was no monks in GW2 I had a feeling like many recent MMOs they'll be catering mostly to casuals because they're where the money is, and pretty much every thing I've seen and heard about GW2 confirms this.

 

[Ctuchik]

Wait what? Not having a monk class makes the game aimed at casuals?

Think you need to clarify that.

 

[Mirt]

I hope you're not going to deny a general trend in MMOs towards casual play, because it's definitely there. In a way I can totally understand why they got rid of monks: most players want to be dps not support and waiting around for a required class is no fun* , neither is going without them in PvP and getting destroyed by groups with dedicated healers. Monks where extremely powerful in GW1 PvP, fun to play with a pretty high skill cap, you couldn't just mindlessly spam your big heals, you'd run out of energy, you needed to read the battle and figure out who is likely to get assisted on and pre-cast your short duration protection buffs such as spirit/spirit bond. If you got it right the person you prot'ed was pretty much invulnerable for a few seconds, if you got it wrong well they went splat... There was more too it than that since you'd be playing cat and mouse with energy denial, interrupts (hard and soft) and all sorts of other stuff GW1 GvG was defiantly the most fun I've had as a healer in an MMO by a mile, and GvG itself is something that I expect would have appealed to much of the daoc 8v8 crowd. The current GW2 pvp is just weaksauce lowest common denominator crap by comparison.

* Mostly a PvE issue in GW1, which is ironic since monks where not required in PvE if you had the right builds

 

[Syri]

The reason monks don't exist is because they are a one trick class. In case you hadn't noticed, what they've tried to do with GW2 is to do away with the so called "holy trinity of MMOs", the tank, healer, dps roles. They've tried to instead give all classes the chance to take on all roles. Maybe there is a way they could adapt monks to this, maybe not. Chances are it'd result in a very different class to what they were in GW1. Maybe they're saving it for an inevitable expansion, when they've had chance to tune it better to fit into the new structure.
I'm not saying they've got everything perfect, or even right, but they're certainly trying to make a game that is actually different to all of the clones flooding the market, so how you can say they're just copying everyone I really don't know...
I've not done much PvP in gw2 so far, so most of my experience comes from the PvE side, but what I've seen is that they are keeping the tactical element, where the quickbar is fixed and the spells you pick could win or lose you the fight, rather than just getting the current class of the week, kitting it out with the top tier gear and going nuts.
It sounds to me like you would simply prefer classes with a more defined role, at least as far as your feelings towards the monk go. Sorry to say that the pure healer has been tossed aside here.
I've usually tended to go for support classes, or occasionally healers or even tanks, but I'm quite enjoying the chance to try something different now, instead of just wishing it was more of the same.
GW1 was different to a lot of other MMOs, and GW2 is different to a lot of other MMOs, but they both differ in their own ways too. Instead of wishing it was another game, why not give it a chance for what it is, and what it offers? You can always go to a different game if you don't like it, but this is what they've made.
As for the casual trend, yes, there has been a trend to make games friendly for casual play. There are numerous reasons for this, but the most prominent is that the people who started out playing MMOs have got older now, and have taken on more responsibilities. They have less time to play, so games have adapted to suit the majority of the people playing. The companies don't make games for people to reminisce about the "good old days", they make them to sell. The truth is that a game that is more friendly to casual players, but not necessarily one that has to be played casually, is far more likely to sell than one that requires a non-stop 4 hour gaming session every day just to keep your character going.

 

[Fefner]

The reason monks don't exist is because they are a one trick class. In case you hadn't noticed, what they've tried to do with GW2 is to do away with the so called "holy trinity of MMOs", the tank, healer, dps roles. They've tried to instead give all classes the chance to take on all roles. Maybe there is a way they could adapt monks to this, maybe not. Chances are it'd result in a very different class to what they were in GW1. Maybe they're saving it for an inevitable expansion, when they've had chance to tune it better to fit into the new structure.
I'm not saying they've got everything perfect, or even right, but they're certainly trying to make a game that is actually different to all of the clones flooding the market, so how you can say they're just copying everyone I really don't know...
I've not done much PvP in gw2 so far, so most of my experience comes from the PvE side, but what I've seen is that they are keeping the tactical element, where the quickbar is fixed and the spells you pick could win or lose you the fight, rather than just getting the current class of the week, kitting it out with the top tier gear and going nuts.
It sounds to me like you would simply prefer classes with a more defined role, at least as far as your feelings towards the monk go. Sorry to say that the pure healer has been tossed aside here.
I've usually tended to go for support classes, or occasionally healers or even tanks, but I'm quite enjoying the chance to try something different now, instead of just wishing it was more of the same.
GW1 was different to a lot of other MMOs, and GW2 is different to a lot of other MMOs, but they both differ in their own ways too. Instead of wishing it was another game, why not give it a chance for what it is, and what it offers? You can always go to a different game if you don't like it, but this is what they've made.
As for the casual trend, yes, there has been a trend to make games friendly for casual play. There are numerous reasons for this, but the most prominent is that the people who started out playing MMOs have got older now, and have taken on more responsibilities. They have less time to play, so games have adapted to suit the majority of the people playing. The companies don't make games for people to reminisce about the "good old days", they make them to sell. The truth is that a game that is more friendly to casual players, but not necessarily one that has to be played casually, is far more likely to sell than one that requires a non-stop 4 hour gaming session every day just to keep your character going.

I liked what GW2 tried to do as in GW1 guilds had problems finding a monks or a certain dps class but im afraid they have failed in my eyes. When GW1 came out the monk class was not a type of class that jumped out at ppl to play, same went for the cleric/healer/druid classes in Daoc, ppl didn't want to stand there spamming heals, ppl wanted to kill things hence at the beginning there were a lot of smite clerics around. But as more games came along and old games become more guild v guild oriented, the healing type classes became more and more played. Atm GW2 is just a dps and dodge game, try and out dps your target before they kill you, if they had added healers in the game i think that the WvW side of things might have been much better (groups might stand a chance against zergs) and that would of kept the huge amount of players who loved daoc interested for longer. I've also been reading that quite a few GW1 vets are annoyed about the lack of the support side of the game and moans of no end game which is also true. My whole guild, all doac vets and a few gw1 and WoW players have all quit due to the lack of end game. We saw WvW as the end game but with nothing really to fight for and all the server swapping, queues and mindless zergs, it killed it for us. I asked everyone who played in my guild what the game was missing they all said a few same things, lack of heals (which would of helped group gameplay), the poor downed system, all the WvW problems (small maps, zergy, queues etc) and no real end game. Spvp was ok but the gw1 gvg fights were so much better. The ladder system they had was a way of keeping you interested, something i feel GW2 should of had. In the end of the day if they had kept the "holy trinity" i think this game could have been the best mmo out there and would of been very hard to be beaten.
I've now got my eye on TESO but im hoping they change the way healers can be any class, again i see a lot of problems with this but it will encourage group gameplay more and it seems to have the same type of casting system as daoc had ( no cool downs ) but can be interrupted.

 

[Overdriven]

TL;DR.

Learn to use paragraphs.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I tend to agree with Fefner in that the WvW larger goal thing is largely invalidated. All you need to do is hook up with a Chinese guild to do your nightshift and you will win on points that week. Doesn't matter how well you play when you do play, the people that play PvD (players vs doors) will win every time given the current game design.

I like that WvW requires you to protect and control supply and limits the amount of time defenders in a siege can hold out unless they get off their arses and do something about supply but again, it doesn't matter how well you do if the enemies have recruited a nightshift. May as well not bother.

I still enjoy WvW, its good fun. Its just spoiled because you know no matter how well you play or organise at a macro (server-wide) level, you still can't win with the current ruleset. Don't even get me started on the hack/glitch abuse that is going on.

 

[Ctuchik]

I hope you're not going to deny a general trend in MMOs towards casual play, because it's definitely there. In a way I can totally understand why they got rid of monks: most players want to be dps not support and waiting around for a required class is no fun* , neither is going without them in PvP and getting destroyed by groups with dedicated healers. Monks where extremely powerful in GW1 PvP, fun to play with a pretty high skill cap, you couldn't just mindlessly spam your big heals, you'd run out of energy, you needed to read the battle and figure out who is likely to get assisted on and pre-cast your short duration protection buffs such as spirit/spirit bond. If you got it right the person you prot'ed was pretty much invulnerable for a few seconds, if you got it wrong well they went splat... There was more too it than that since you'd be playing cat and mouse with energy denial, interrupts (hard and soft) and all sorts of other stuff GW1 GvG was defiantly the most fun I've had as a healer in an MMO by a mile, and GvG itself is something that I expect would have appealed to much of the daoc 8v8 crowd. The current GW2 pvp is just weaksauce lowest common denominator crap by comparison.

* Mostly a PvE issue in GW1, which is ironic since monks where not required in PvE if you had the right builds

No i'm not going to deny that MMO's today focus more on casuals in general. And why shouldn't they, most of us that grew up with the hardcore MMO's are starting to turn 40+, so we're not the group they aim for anymore. They aim for the kids that play WoW, and their brains for the most part are not capable of handling true hardcore MMO's like DAoC (at least the old DAoC), AO, UO, EQ1 etc etc.

But no they didn't remove healers because most wanted to be DPS, they removed healers because they felt reactive healing were stupid and i tend to agree.

The "tank and spank" formula all other MMO's of today use is imo old, unrewarding and unimaginative.

Here's the real reason why they didn't include "healers".

Heal: Don't belittle the SUPPORT role by calling it heal. Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing. In Guild Wars 2 we prefer that you support your allies before they take a beating. Sure, there are some healing spells in Guild Wars 2, but they make up a small portion of the support lines that are spread throughout the professions. Other kinds of support include buffs, active defense, and cross-profession combinations.

For instance, an elementalist can support his allies by dropping down a ground-targeted healing rain that rejuvenates allies in an area. He might also use Windborne Speed to help them chase down a target or escape out of longbow range. A warrior might shout "On My Target" to help his allies do more damage to a marked enemy, or use his warhorn to "Call to Arms" which improves the armor of his allies for a short time

We use our cross-profession combos to fill in the rest of our support. An elementalist can create a Firewall or Static Field to improve the ranged attacks of his allies. A warrior can carry a Banner of Wisdom around the battlefield to increase the power of his allies' magical attacks. An elementalist might cast an ice spell to freeze enemies, but that same spell might give his allies Frost Armor to protect them from incoming attacks. When you boil it down, support is just the friendly way for players to work together to accomplish a shared goal.

In GW2 if you want to survive you have to see to that yourself even if your allies support you.

If you die it's your fault, not some healers. And bad players have a real problem with this because they have no healer to blame when they fuck up. (no i'm not suggesting you're a bad player, it was a general remark)

Playing this game well both in group pve and pvp in general is a lot harder then in any other MMO because it's all down to how well individual players do that makes all the difference. So if 2 groups of equal numbers and skill met, the group with the one player that fucks up first lose, because they don't have any healers to save the day or a class with instant CC's....

And the more i play the less i die, which means i must be getting better. If i fuck up it immediately show by me getting killed, and i have no one else to blame but myself. I had a problem with that myself, but i realized that if i were to keep enjoying this game i just had to suck it up and accept that i was fucking horrible and had to start learning.

This game really isn't that bad, it just takes more from the players to do well and they can't play like in WoW or EQ2 or DAoC. And so far i've seen more players wanting to get better then wanting a healer to save their asses. Because knowing that you survived because YOU played well is far more rewarding and satisfying then having a healer do it for you. Plus, it gives you a much needed slice of humble pie when you finally realize just how bad you truly are when there's no healers around.

I really do recommend that you try the game first before dismissing it. Reading about the "problems" is one thing, actually experiencing them first hand and realizing that it actually might not be the case is quite another.

 

[Soazak]

Personally, I find the structure of classes (i.e. no dedicated healers) a much more attractive style than traditional MMOs, and I've always played a healer.

I do think that this in turn brings it's own problems which I hope will eventually addressed, removing healers also removes that ultimate reliance on your team mates so it does feel a little too solo at times (which for me is great right now as I don't really play games competitively any more so I can just join a pug in a tournament and still do well), which to me it's like the difference between Half Life TDM and Counter Strike.

It could be very team orientated, but I don't think they want to go that way. I would personally like to see more abilities like that of a guardian that are aimed towards saving your allies, they talk about Reactive instead of Proactive in the quote from Ctuchik posted, but at the moment there isn't a whole lot other than dodge so highest DPS does seem to come out on top at the moment.

Still a fantastic game though, I don't think I've seen a game (MMO) so well made at such an early stage.

 

[Ctuchik]

It could be very team orientated, but I don't think they want to go that way. I would personally like to see more abilities like that of a guardian that are aimed towards saving your allies, they talk about Reactive instead of Proactive in the quote from Ctuchik posted, but at the moment there isn't a whole lot other than dodge so highest DPS does seem to come out on top at the moment.

No there's way more things then dodge to keep you alive. You got protection, retaliation, fury, might, swiftness, regeneration stuns, roots, shields, knockback, knockdown, blinds, confuse, daze, etc etc etc.

All those things help you stay alive one way or another.

 

[Himse]

No there's way more things then dodge to keep you alive. You got protection, retaliation, fury, might, swiftness, regeneration stuns, roots, shields, knockback, knockdown, blinds, confuse, daze, etc etc etc.

All those things help you stay alive one way or another.

Agreed, but they don't save you from the zerg, you literally have 0 chance of survival. In DAoC at least you can beat a zerg.