Games Guild Wars 2

[AngelHeal]

You can beat a zerg, just not the same way in daoc...

 

[Nate]

I kind of just left the game alone a while ago, doesn't seem to interest me. Too much cookie cutter in sPvP and it doesn't have any form of match making or so it seems, WvW seemed pointless unless you had a big zerg and PvE end game was just a grind to get itamz.

Maybe I just didn't want an MMO to play.

 

[Himse]

You can beat a zerg, just not the same way in daoc...

I haven't seen a 5 man take down 50+ people. They get stomped in 3 secs.

 

[Gahn]

I haven't seen a 5 man take down 50+ people. They get stomped in 3 secs.

No 5 vs 15-20 is doable tho.

 

[Moriath]

Why should five beat fifty. Five riflemen would prob be killed by fifty spear em etc. seems excessive that you rate a game by how few people your opted five man can take down. Used to drive me nuts that daoc was all based on twitch max range mezz by the time I finished played it.

 

[AngelHeal]

Because if a game let's you, or giving you an opportunity to achieve this, no matter how hard... you think you make a difference as a player, that you can make or break this world. It's the same thing with Apple, they let you think you can customize your phone to the way u want it, even though its strictly limited to the way they want you to, so your phone is recognizable for other people that see it. Same goes for the game, atm they let us think we make a big difference, yet you dont, because it is soo recognizable what the situation is for new joining parties... they see 8 vs 40 they know it is impossible.. same for 8 vs 30 8 vs 20 8 vs 8 and 8 vs 1... which keeps players in their comfort zone, the same zone that made WoW a biiiggg succes. While in daoc, 10 man could hold 100+ man when defending, getting all gear all levels didnt mean a thing if YOU didnt do something in rvr

 

[Mabs]

that you rate a game by how few people your opted five man can take down.

people like to play OP classes, gang up on lowbies, then go around telling everyone how they killed 92307432089432 people with 3mates, 2 of whom were AFK

/shrug, welcome to rvr/pvp community, once you wade through the bullshit you find its not actually that broken

 

[Soazak]

No there's way more things then dodge to keep you alive. You got protection, retaliation, fury, might, swiftness, regeneration stuns, roots, shields, knockback, knockdown, blinds, confuse, daze, etc etc etc.

All those things help you stay alive one way or another.

They help yes, but only momentarily. None of what you have mentioned is going to extend life by vast amounts due to short duration on the control/defensive abilities. And not all classes have access to all of those, e.g. my Elementalist, outside of the Elemental attunement trait has Vigor, chill and immobilise, while my necro has enough conditions to be able to stay alive indefinitely in many situations. The problem I have is it sounds like they're wanting things to be more like the elementalist and less like the Necro by changes such as removing the life force gain (the necro's main form of defense) from Blood is Power and replacing it with 10 stacks of might. I guess I'm not a huge fan of 'staying alive by killing them faster'. They have also commented on bunker classes like Guardian/Necro/Mesmer not being what they want from the game as they want things to die faster iirc.

Right now 4x DPS and 1x point defender does great in tournaments by overwhelming groups with DPS. I would personally like to see the game going in the direction of Mesmers/Guardians/Necro survivability, with more reliance on team mates.

I still very much like the game, despite knowing the way I want it to be probably wont happen.

 

[Ctuchik]

Agreed, but they don't save you from the zerg, you literally have 0 chance of survival. In DAoC at least you can beat a zerg.

And why should a small group of people be able to win over a zerg in open ground combat?

 

[Ctuchik]

They help yes, but only momentarily. None of what you have mentioned is going to extend life by vast amounts due to short duration on the control/defensive abilities.

No they won't, that's why you need to know when to use them. Stacking up all your buffs at the first sign of trouble is counterproductive because then you won't have them available when you DO need them.

Sure they won't save you in every situation but then again, why should they?

 

[Himse]

Why? Why shouldn't they? Why should a zerg just run around and smash small groups of people up? You should be able to have some sort of counter..

Do you not find it boring to not be able to beat a large group of people? 5v5 is always cool whatever, but in daoc 8v50 was always so much fun to win that kind of fight, whether you bomb them, kite them all, whatever.

This is why WvW is boring, you run from point X to point Y and back again, you take X supply camp, it gets taken again by a zerg 10x your number who then zerg over you when there's no way to control that many people, you can't escape, there's no SoS, Mezz, Stuns that are aoe and last long enough to actually move off from a zerg.

You're basically dead meat if you meet a zerg, there's only so long you can stay alive in GW. What kind of fun is that, basically GW is just zergs running about at the moment. SPvP is incredibly dry after a few runs, it's just WvW on a smaller scale.

 

[Gwadien]

Right, unless someone can give me a good reason not to get this, I'm getting it (IE PVP is uber wank, don't bother meight, zerging doesn't count, because it always dies down/gets more organised)

Secondly, Going to be getting this with my Dad, So; Need a good duo combo to level/PVP with, one of them cannot be super-duper complex, as my Old Man, is, Old.

Thirdly, (Silly question) Is there any characters to avoid? OOO looks pretty, but is awful? What are the OP classes etc? Are there any (lol, zerg) viable solo characters that can also group? (For me to solo level.)

Thanks for the guide Freddies, appreciated.

 

[Moriath]

Why? Why shouldn't they? Why should a zerg just run around and smash small groups of people up? You should be able to have some sort of counter..

Do you not find it boring to not be able to beat a large group of people? 5v5 is always cool whatever, but in daoc 8v50 was always so much fun to win that kind of fight, whether you bomb them, kite them all, whatever.

This is why WvW is boring, you run from point X to point Y and back again, you take X supply camp, it gets taken again by a zerg 10x your number who then zerg over you when there's no way to control that many people, you can't escape, there's no SoS, Mezz, Stuns that are aoe and last long enough to actually move off from a zerg.

You're basically dead meat if you meet a zerg, there's only so long you can stay alive in GW. What kind of fun is that, basically GW is just zergs running about at the moment. SPvP is incredibly dry after a few runs, it's just WvW on a smaller scale.

it was always fun for the 8 that had opted group but wasnt fun for the 50 .. why should hte 50 be sacrificial lambs for the 8's fun ?

 

[AngelHeal]

Right, unless someone can give me a good reason not to get this, I'm getting it (IE PVP is uber wank, don't bother meight, zerging doesn't count, because it always dies down/gets more organised)

Secondly, Going to be getting this with my Dad, So; Need a good duo combo to level/PVP with, one of them cannot be super-duper complex, as my Old Man, is, Old.

Thirdly, (Silly question) Is there any characters to avoid? OOO looks pretty, but is awful? What are the OP classes etc? Are there any (lol, zerg) viable solo characters that can also group? (For me to solo level.)

Thanks for the guide Freddies, appreciated.

It's a good game! Worth it's money no doubt. For your dad I would not recommend a mesmer at start, compared to other classes they are pretty weak on lower levels.

All classes bring something to the table, pve and rvr so it's your choice.. There are some talent builders online search em up and decide what gameplay you like..

 

[Himse]

it was always fun for the 8 that had opted group but wasnt fun for the 50 .. why should hte 50 be sacrificial lambs for the 8's fun ?

Sorry but are you daft?

It's not for the 8s fun, its about a challenge for the 8, the 50 suffer for running around mindlessly zerging keeps.

I thought this game was supposed to be about skilled players, not who can zerg the most between X and Y keep during the day then one team nightcaps every zone.

 

[Poag]

Do you not find it boring to not be able to beat a large group of people? 5v5 is always cool whatever, but in daoc 8v50 was always so much fun to win that kind of fight, whether you bomb them, kite them all, whatever.

Sorry but are you daft?

It's not for the 8s fun, its about a challenge for the 8, the 50 suffer for running around mindlessly zerging keeps.

The contradictions are strong with this one..mmmm!


...I wrote some long paragraphs about forums and how loud and whiney the FG type people are....but meh, theres no point arguing with these people.





Anyway, GW2 rewards groups or raid groups moving around together. You can fight a running battle against 2 or 3 times your numbers, but you have to keep them at arms length and be very wary not to be left behind your "line" as it were. For example a fight between garrison and bay last night. Our "group" was maybe 15-20 people, i was solo..usually am, but i'm aware there were some groups running around there. The german defenders between 40 and 50 people. We pushed them back to their doors catching stragglers and slowing peopel down i the main group to kill them off. Sieged the gates for a bit, RF gates so with only 2 rams up it was fairly slow. Germans hid inside for ages and we kept them off the walls.

German Guardian pops up, draws all the people on the gate to him, eles aoe them hard. 5-8 drop. Throw in res grenades (all engies should have this damn thing on all the goddam time), all back up. Germans push out, now 15 or so of us about 40 of them, we retreat back to garrison, leaving walls behind us to slow them down and picking off those who push to far ahead (or are pulled ahead and then bounced along in amongst us). Make it back to garrison and defend our gates from them for the next hour or so. Flamethrower is so much fun on defense

 

[Himse]

The contradictions are strong with this one..mmmm!


...I wrote some long paragraphs about forums and how loud and whiney the FG type people are....but meh, theres no point arguing with these people.





Anyway, GW2 rewards groups or raid groups moving around together. You can fight a running battle against 2 or 3 times your numbers, but you have to keep them at arms length and be very wary not to be left behind your "line" as it were. For example a fight between garrison and bay last night. Our "group" was maybe 15-20 people, i was solo..usually am, but i'm aware there were some groups running around there. The german defenders between 40 and 50 people. We pushed them back to their doors catching stragglers and slowing peopel down i the main group to kill them off. Sieged the gates for a bit, RF gates so with only 2 rams up it was fairly slow. Germans hid inside for ages and we kept them off the walls.

German Guardian pops up, draws all the people on the gate to him, eles aoe them hard. 5-8 drop. Throw in res grenades (all engies should have this damn thing on all the goddam time), all back up. Germans push out, now 15 or so of us about 40 of them, we retreat back to garrison, leaving walls behind us to slow them down and picking off those who push to far ahead (or are pulled ahead and then bounced along in amongst us). Make it back to garrison and defend our gates from them for the next hour or so. Flamethrower is so much fun on defense

See, to me, what you've just describe isn't fun, it's running between x and y point and mindlessly zerging eachother.

What I was trying to say with the above post was, 50 shouldn't always beat 5. DAoC it happened alot that the zerg would win, but occasionally you'd get a good group able to wipe the zerg.

In GW this can't happen. I've yet to see any 5 man effectively wipe out a zerg. DAoC catered for every player type, GW does not.

 

[Poag]

In GW this can't happen. I've yet to see any 5 man effectively wipe out a zerg. DAoC catered for every player type, GW does not.

And its a better game for not catering to this particular style...

In my opinion.

 

[Himse]

And its a better game for not catering to this particular style...

In my opinion.

Fair enough then.

 

[Nate]

It is more interesting to be able to do something about a zerg if you can't muster a large force, currently that doesn't seem possible in this game. Small servers will find it pointless to go in to WvW against high pop servers unless there is some way the under dog can win.

 

[Poag]

It is more interesting to be able to do something about a zerg if you can't muster a large force, currently that doesn't seem possible in this game. Small servers will find it pointless to go in to WvW against high pop servers unless there is some way the under dog can win.

The outgunned buff needs reworking. As it affects PvE in a PvP zone...which is a bit dumb really.

Should provide a toughness buff and a bonus to exp,karma and token drops alongside the current one. Should also make guards tougher and rams more effective.

 

[Nate]

I wonder if partial caps would work, low servers vs high servers enforcing a 150 man cap / server(it's 250 atm, right?). It would probably balance the servers out better over time?

 

[svartalf]

Secondly, Going to be getting this with my Dad, So; Need a good duo combo to level/PVP with, one of them cannot be super-duper complex, as my Old Man, is, Old.

Sounds like a Warrior. Simples.

 

[Himse]

Sounds like a Warrior. Simples.

Agree, Guardian Warrior could be funny for simplicity and staying alive.

 

[Ctuchik]

Why? Why shouldn't they? Why should a zerg just run around and smash small groups of people up? You should be able to have some sort of counter..

Do you not find it boring to not be able to beat a large group of people? 5v5 is always cool whatever, but in daoc 8v50 was always so much fun to win that kind of fight, whether you bomb them, kite them all, whatever.

No i didn't really find it that much fun to be honest. Every time we destroyed a zerg in DAoC i always cringed a little at how dodgy the CC mechanics were in that game. Not to mention the times when half the zerg were afk on /follow.

And that's the thing, we didn't beat zergs with our "opted" 8 man because we had mad skillz (we were quite mediocre to be honest), we beat them because of realm abilities, crowd control, PBAOE and artifact abilities. WE didn't beat them, the tools at our disposal did most of the job.

And why should zergs beat small groups? Well, for starters because they have more people then you. It's that simple, numbers when they are aware of your presence should win. And as there's nothing in this game that does enough damage to help in an ambush......

But seriously though, if you're looking for a challenge then asking for CC might not help. I mean how much of a challenge is there really in CC'ing a zerg and then bombing it to death? The game as it is now is pretty much the ultimate challenge for small organized groups because other then group cooperation and personal skill level they don't have much that directly influence the battles in a significant way.

Looking at it that way GW2 is probably a lot more hardcore then DAoC ever was for small groups.

So instead of focusing only on the wiping of the zerg as the only acceptable goal as a small team, maybe try changing it to killing as many as you can while still coming out of it alive.

Just try to not look at it through a DAoC perspective so rigidly. Honestly i think A-Net did a mistake when they said their WvW was inspired by DAoC because they really only took the 3 way dedicated RVR zones from it. It ended up with people wanting this to be a spiritual DAoC 2 so badly they couldn't see that it was never going to be. It didn't matter how often A-Net said it wasn't, the idea still stuck and people started comparing and finding flaws because it didn't work like that in DAoC.

This IS a good game, it's not not "DAoC 2"... And when us DAoC vets finally get that out of our heads it's just gonna get that much better.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

DAoC never was an 8v8 game. The game mechanics just allowed you to roam as 8 if you chose. Those clinging to that mistaken memory really need to get over it.

 

[Bahumat]

President Obama beat all those racist people and got elected, so why can't 8 of Obama's family beat 40 from the Bush household?

 

[Himse]

Meh, wrote a post but cba to argue anymore

At the end of the day, I'll come back to the game when it's calmed down and developed a good 5v5 scene / fixed stuff. Not 100+ noobs zerging back and fourth between 2 keeps.

 

[Moriath]

Meh, wrote a post but cba to argue anymore

At the end of the day, I'll come back to the game when it's calmed down and developed a good 5v5 scene / fixed stuff. Not 100+ noobs zerging back and fourth between 2 keeps.

wont be seeing you in game then as the way toons are the game wont got 5vs5 unless its in sPvP and even then theres no crowd control etc to be able to do that effectively

 

[Ctuchik]

President Obama beat all those racist people and got elected, so why can't 8 of Obama's family beat 40 from the Bush household?

Bush household are notorious cheaters though...