Goa In Violation Of Their Own Rules

[commie]

Originally posted by Jupitus
Fair enough - I flamed you, you responded to it, that much is clear. Now then Commie, please can you not respond so selectively to the post I made? There is rather a large section, clearly marked between [sensible] tags to make it clear to you, which you seem to have missed in its entirety!! Here is that section again:

Seems to me that you have tried to simply highlight my flames as childish (which they are, but at least those bits you understand) to detract from the fact that you failed to respond to my more sensible argument... read it again and understand, eh? Now do you get the picture? Any comments to add?

The reason i didnt respond was that i dont wanna do serious writing in response to a namecalling post.

But here, i have an answer for you

Originally posted by Jupitus
[Sensible]
Yes, it is valid to ask the question 'why does a character name need to be changed by GOA when it is only the first name and not explicitly that of a name which would breach the CoC?'. The answer to this is that GOA will (under normal circumstances) apply their policy based upon complaints received. Equally valid have been many of the points raised about that, but at the end of the day, good or bad, we have to accept GOA's application of their CoC.

Yes, it might seem at times like they are the big boys in the playground saying 'it's my ball and you can't play unless I say so', but ultimately as you walked into the playground you signed a waver (or clicked an acceptance button, in this analogy, which I hope is simple enough for you) which said 'I agree that it's your ball GOA, so you decide the rules'. In this situation, not only have you stamped your feet and tried to grab the ball and disrupt the game, you have also shouted to your friends to come and rally round you like the famous 'Rafia'

You have been called immature. You have acted in an immature way. The two facts are not unrelated.

That's my last attempt at trying to explain this to you sensibly.
[/Sensible]

Cant really say more then i said before.
I dont find this at all childish.

I know GOA is the Judge and Jury. I have no real say in this since they (of course) made the rules in a way so they cannot be wrong.

But still, i wanna see if they do as Zargar stated above. Treat all complaints alike.

That will be interesting to see.

 

[trigali]

Randy,

At the end of the day, what you have initiated here is a storm in a teacup, which, most unfortunately, will divert GOA's resources from doing constructive things, like patches, bug fixes or real customer service (like looking into real name abuses) into doing something wasteful and completely useless such as reading and investigating the phoney complaints you are inviting everyone to send to Rightnow.

You and I pay the same amount and you clearly have the same rights I have to use Rightnow.

Which, in this case, is a shame. Because the money I spend is going, at least in part, to be spent on the useless war or words you have started when I'd rather it be used for more constructive things.

Kemor, Zargar and GOA are doing an outstanding job, I think, and it's really a pity you force them into something as childish as this.

It's not politics. It's not principles. It's a game. I would enjoy it whatever my character name and it's a shame you don't seem to be able to.

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by commie
Still, im glad i got a responce even though it was dodgy and didnt really say that much.

Said all it needed to....

Originally posted by Zargar
I can assure you that a name like Stalinblowsurmom will get an account suspension, while a name with a far fetched obscure reference, would fall into category one in the list above.

Please note carefully, you dumbass, Zargar's clear mention of 'far fetched obscure references'. Now, will you please piss off and stop wasting GMs time which would be better spent on more serious issues such as Radar cheats, for example.

 

[commie]

Originally posted by trigali
Randy,

At the end of the day, what you have initiated here is a storm in a teacup, which, most unfortunately, will divert GOA's resources from doing constructive things, like patches, bug fixes or real customer service (like looking into real name abuses) into doing something wasteful and completely useless such as reading and investigating the phoney complaints you are inviting everyone to send to Rightnow.

You and I pay the same amount and you clearly have the same rights I have to use Rightnow.

Which, in this case, is a shame. Because the money I spend is going, at least in part, to be spent on the useless war or words you have started when I'd rather it be used for more constructive things.

Kemor, Zargar and GOA are doing an outstanding job, I think, and it's really a pity you force them into something as childish as this.

It's not politics. It's not principles. It's a game. I would enjoy it whatever my character name and it's a shame you don't seem to be able to.

I dont agree (of course) with your arguments there.
First. From what i have heard the ppl investigating this kind of things are not involved in patching, bug fixing etc. But of course in customer service.

And imo you are missing the point. I know that list i kinda silly. But thats the point tbh. Its as silly as it was to change the name in the first place. Thats what i wanna show.

I dont agree on Kemor, Zargar and GOA:s doing a great job.
With all the crap going on with zones crashing. Lots of trouble when patching. The überlag on camlann etc i cant say GOA is doing a good job at all. But thats not the point really.

Kemor i dont know much about since i have only seen Zargar in action.

I dont think he does such a great job at least not when a irl friend (NP founder if someone wanna do some funky conspiracy-theory things, im not though) had trouble with a hacked account. He didnt impress, thats for sure.
And of course i think the job that he did in this namematter was useless.

But still, he did reply here and i haventh seen anything else from his work so im not gonna say hes a useless mofo or anything since that would only be childish.

In you last text your right on the point.
It IS a matter of principles. And since i think they did a huge mistake im arguing about it. And since the things he said on the screen www.nolbypride.com/zargarchatt.jpg contradics what he said on irc. I was a bit pissed off tbh.

I mean, look at that screen. That was his statement to a player when he was acting as an admin or whatever they are called.

He stated that it was NOT important that Milosevic was an evil person. He also stated that he KNEW the lastname would never have been Milosevic.

Imo changing the name using the policy he stated earlier in this thread is a big contradiction.

But, everyone has a different view. And thats good i guess

 

[commie]

Originally posted by Jupitus
Said all it needed to....



Please note carefully, you dumbass, Zargar's clear mention of 'far fetched obscure references'. Now, will you please piss off and stop wasting GMs time which would be better spent on more serious issues such as Radar cheats, for example.

Stop calling me names please.

And, i cant see how a Serbian war criminals first name is more far fetched then a Kashmir terrorist-leaders last name.

But hey, thats me.

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by commie
I dont agree on Kemor, Zargar and GOA:s doing a great job.

If you're not happy with the service GOA provide then please feel free to stop paying them money.

As with any other service - if you are not happy then dont pay for it, move elsewhere - do us all a favour..

So much for "your last post"

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by commie
I dont think he does such a great job at least not when a irl friend (NP founder if someone wanna do some funky conspiracy-theory things, im not though) had trouble with a hacked account. He didnt impress, thats for sure.

Hmmm... very hard to be sure, of course, but personally I wouldn't mind speculating that the response your buddy wasn't too keen on was to do with account sharing etc etc etc... read the news:

http://camelot-europe.goa.com/news/newsarticle.php3?id_article=902

....for a reminder about this... of course, I could be wrong.

 

[trigali]

Saaug,

Please come make a friendly comment about Commie ! Nobody else seem to be able to get through to the 3 neurons he's got.

 

[tildson]

Originally posted by -Nxs-
If you're not happy with the service GOA provide then please feel free to stop paying them money.

As with any other service - if you are not happy then dont pay for it, move elsewhere - do us all a favour..

So much for "your last post"

How original...

 

[tindel]

Originally posted by sorusi
Cool cos i ranomized that name "Soruzi" in the daoc name-randomer

riiiiight, and your camlann's char is called sorusi?

come again

 

[commie]

Originally posted by -Nxs-
If you're not happy with the service GOA provide then please feel free to stop paying them money.

As with any other service - if you are not happy then dont pay for it, move elsewhere - do us all a favour..

So much for "your last post"

I meant last post in reply to your stupid assaults on me as a person.
But, hey.. I was wrong. It was my second to last since you where not smart enough to get it.

But hey, heres my last reply to you then..

bye

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by commie
bye

Dont forget to close the door on your way out !!

 

[old.Krogar_Thane]

i sure hope...

i sure hope you exhibit as much passion, dedication, effort and time on your real life pursuits as you do on something as trivial as the name changing of a collection of pixels that exist virtually on your PC screen. if you, you are destined for a succesful career with that motivation.

as you may note by my signature i have a character called Dirtyharry, i thought it amusing that the runemaster with big bolts, could be likened to Dirtyharry with his big magnum 44. and sometimes i will have some fun in my group and guild chat with some roleplaying and such like, shouting BOOM! or, go ahead punk! make my day, when a mob dies. however, i should imagine i should also be included on your tit for tat, copyright naming law.

but, you are totally missing the point......im having fun, and others are having fun, however, some1, for whatever reason, has been offended by your choice of name, for it does (incontestably - no matter what word play or counter reasons you can up with) have links with a real life, war criminal who commited war crimes and genocide, you have paid your money, and agreed to the code of conduct, as has every1 else who plays the game. and that entitles them to play in a mmorpg virtual world and community without offence.

your name caused offense to some1 (even if you dont agree it does, it still has caused offense and been complained about) and it has been changed.

here are your choices

a) email or IRC all your guilders to spend hours checking the XML logs and finding any vaguely dubious or copyrighted name and spam rightnow with it, in some kind of tit for tat, ill take you all with me mentality.

b)choose a new name.
deal with it.
go outside, have a beer, have some sex.

i thank you, good night.

p.s please change Nolby Prides motto

rename one, all bleed.

 

[pudzy]

I dont know why anyone could moan about that name.

btw does Pudz mean anything bad??

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by pudzy
btw does Pudz mean anything bad??

Aye.


PUDZ - 1 title(s) in Records by Mail discography
Results 1 - 1 below

• PUDZ: take a letter maria Out-of-Stock
Punk/New Wave Format: vinyl 45 add to want list
label: TEENIE WOMPUM 002


Looks like its the name of a band somewhere, so you need to change your name else NP will be moaning at you </sarcasm>

 

[Jupitus]

Re: i sure hope...

Originally posted by old.Krogar_Thane
b)choose a new name.
deal with it.
go outside, have a beer, have some sex.

.... make sure you find someone willing to put up with all your mates coming along to join in though ... I am sure it won't be an issue for someone with your charm, wit and overall charisma ...

 

[Eliz]

What amazes me is how some people fail to realize that this is indeed a matter of principle, to prove a point, namely this: will GOA treat every player the same way regarding the names of their chars, in the spirit of the CoC? The outcome of the list (if they even choose to investigate the whole thing) will be one of two possible conclusion:

1. They change the names, and by doing this they are indeed treating the players equally. At least in this particular case.

2. They dont change the names. If this is the case then they might as well replace the naming-part of the CoC with something like "Choose whatever name you want you for your char but, whatever name you decide to get, we will change it if we dont like it and we don't ever have to motivate our decision."

 

[mid.Bashir]

hmmm

if you think Slobodan ain't offensive cuz its a common name... then u would not mind taking Osama, Adolf etc as well? just my 2EuroCents

 

[-Nxs-]

Originally posted by Eliz
2. They dont change the names. If this is the case then they might as well replace the naming-part of the CoC with something like "Choose whatever name you want you for your char but, whatever name you decide to get, we will change it if we dont like it and we don't ever have to motivate our decision."

more realisticly....

"Choose whatever name you want for your character, but if someone objects and complains it will be investigated and treated on its individual merits"

I dont see a problem with that

 

[Eliz]

Originally posted by -Nxs-
more realisticly....

"Choose whatever name you want for your character, but if someone objects and complains it will be investigated and treated on its individual merits"

I dont see a problem with that

Same meaning, different coating.

 

[-Nxs-]

Aye, although im just pointing out GOA wont feel the need to change names unless someone complains.

 

[old.Krogar_Thane]

you pay your money and you clicked accept

i understand the principle behind the nolby pride list

but its wasted effort, its immature, and wasting more than the time of the people who created it, some staff, whether they are customer services, patchers, programmers, tea boys or cleaning ladies have to read these right now posts and check them out.

you got your name changed.....you chose a name that offended some one.

get over it and choose another name.

making a list with 100s of other peoples names, "to see if you were being picked on, or to see whether GOA will ban all those names too".

is a big old bag of poo, its obvious, to any one with even a modicum of common sense that every name is taken and looked at on an individual basis, and judged upon there after.

i presume that more that more than 1 complaint came in about the name slobodann, i personally dont see it as an offense, however i am mature enough to see that it could cause offense to others.

get over it, and enjoy the game with another collection of letters above your virtual toon. i understand also the theory of being attached to your character and hating, loathing, dying a death if they rename it (re-the jpg conversation- i cant rename him! he IS slobodann!), come on, grow up, make a short version, as you also suggested.

this is just dragging on and on and on...and round and round in useless circles.

anyhow, i can see the flawed logic behind the nolby pride list, however it is just that, flawed, and it has the mentality of "if they change my name, they better change others names too damnit!"

thats just childish.

enjoy the game, enjoy your new name.

rename one, all bleed (and then spend hours scouring duskwave and emailing rightnow)

 

[Tesla Monkor]

What amazes me is how some people fail to realize that this is indeed a matter of principle, to prove a point, namely this: will GOA treat every player the same way regarding the names of their chars, in the spirit of the CoC? The outcome of the list (if they even choose to investigate the whole thing) will be one of two possible conclusion:

1. They change the names, and by doing this they are indeed treating the players equally. At least in this particular case.

2. They dont change the names. If this is the case then they might as well replace the naming-part of the CoC with something like "Choose whatever name you want you for your char but, whatever name you decide to get, we will change it if we dont like it and we don't ever have to motivate our decision."
-----------------------------

GOA is a business and not a theological institution. There is a difference between being 'realistic' and 'idealistic'.

People seem to forget the reason the CoC and the EULA are there.. they're there to protect GOA. The fact that you, as a user get some benefits from them is nice, but not the main goal for them. (If you wonder why, read me previous paragraph.)

How hard is it to understand these things? Use your common sense. GOA wants it's players happy and doesn't want to run any risks. If you make waves, you'll inevitably sink. If one person picks a name that makes other people unhappy, it has to go.

You honestly expect that GOA will pick option (2) and alter all the names that were mentioned? Get real. GOA has neither the time, nor the personel, nor the inclination to do so. The fact that they're posted by a grumpy disgruntled lurikeen on a holy crusade of righteousness only makes the whole matter more hilarious.

There's a lesson here for those who didn't catch it. Or caught it on the rebound...

Did you catch it?

This thread is in dire need of a lock, and most people in it in need of a clue-by-four.

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by Eliz
What amazes me is how some people fail to realize that this is indeed a matter of principle, to prove a point, namely this: will GOA treat every player the same way regarding the names of their chars, in the spirit of the CoC? The outcome of the list (if they even choose to investigate the whole thing) will be one of two possible conclusion:

1. They change the names, and by doing this they are indeed treating the players equally. At least in this particular case.

2. They dont change the names. If this is the case then they might as well replace the naming-part of the CoC with something like "Choose whatever name you want you for your char but, whatever name you decide to get, we will change it if we dont like it and we don't ever have to motivate our decision."

No Liz... yes, in principle, but not in practice. The main thing is Zargar's reference to the fact that each name is judged individually to determine whether it should be changed. In any situation like this there will always be a degree of human discretion required on the part of the GMs, and believe it or not they are usually pretty damned even handed (case in point, look at Brannor's situation). Most of the names listed are actually the more obscure kind of references which would normally go unchanged anyway, although I think there is a likelihood that those found to be actual copyrights may get treated.

 

[Rhymes]

Just my two cents, if the character had the full name of Slobodan Milosevic then people would have a right to complain. Slobodan like someone said is just like, George, Henry, etc.

If he had the surname Slobodan Smith, Slobodan TheFatTroll would people have complained and would GOA have done something. I think Slobodan has a right to stick to his guns. He did not have the name of a mass murderer, he had the Christian name of a mass murderer in which case anyone could be guilty of that.
To the person that said this is an english server so all non english should F*%K OFF!, this is an english speaking server not an english server.
GOA should realise there mistake, warn Slobodan not to pick a surname 'Milosevic' and that should be the end of it.

Also for people who are so narrow minded to tie a foreign name to the most well known person with that Christian name in the world please grow up and dont be so easily offended.

To the people from the UK who have thrown there coppers in on this. If he was called Peter would you assume he was referring to Peter Sutcliffe- The Yorkshre Ripper
Henry-Henry VIII- murderer of a few of his wifes.
Harold-- Harold Shipman (doctor accused not sure if convicted of mass murder)
Margaret - Margaret Thatcher (Ex Prime Minister of England)

I mean come on its ridiculous to complain about a christian name because some famous person has the same name.

I think GOA should give back his name and tell the people who were offended that the reason that it has been given back to him is because it does not directly link to the person that they have linked it to.

 

[nemesisgm]

Can't believe Nobly Prats are still whining!

 

[lacroix]

Originally posted by Tesla Monkor
...
GOA is a business and not a theological institution. There is a difference between being 'realistic' and 'idealistic'.

People seem to forget the reason the CoC and the EULA are there.. they're there to protect GOA. The fact that you, as a user get some benefits from them is nice, but not the main goal for them. (If you wonder why, read me previous paragraph.)
...

Bah, tried to abstain from commenting but just can't keep my gob shut ... So, personally, I don't give a damn about ppl's name in the game, no matter how silly/offensive or whatever they are; so this issue here for me is irrelavant...

But, I don't particular like taking bs from any authorities, especially corporate ones - so CoC and EULA ARE indeed there to protect GOA, no doubt - and this is particular one reason why I couldn't care less about them (plus, I got a good lawyer ) - the principle of capitalism that corporations subscribe to is that he with the money calls the shots ... - only problem is, individually we (as paying customers to GOA) are too insignificant to matter ... - and this is the only issue at hand here.
Sod CoC, if we as players had bargaining power, it would mean shit all all what's written there - and I see the attempt of the threadstarter as an attempt to raise "public awareness" in order to raise his bargaining power - he might have failed in that or not, but I personally think it was a legitimate attempt ....

 

[old.Krogar_Thane]

that is a very reasonable and well written answer rhymes.

i tend to agree, you have changed my mind.

however..........if his name has been changed, he should deal with it, and get on with things.

however....the nolby fellow chose instead to act in a very childish and time wasting manner by researching, documenting and then sending a long list of names to rightnow with the mentality of

"they changed my name, they better goddamn change some other names too!"

why? what does that prove?

if they change one or none of the other names that he sent in on the list, he just comes across as some one who chose a name which offended somebody (whether that view is right or wrong) and now wishes to make waves and bring trouble and strife to some other players. he has already stated that he doesnt give a fig about any of the names.

thats pushing principle beyond sensible behaviour into the boundaries of childish pedantic nitpicking.

GOA, look at every single name complaint on a 1 by 1 basis.

end of story.

i would like to say, i have taken it upon myself to be the public judge and jury and i sentence this thread to death.

BANG!

 

[Aileanara]

Am I the only one who has not posted in this thread.









Opps

 

[dozigden]

No I havent either, I've restrained myself....



























DOH!