Politics Election 2019

[caLLous]

Words, @Embattle, use your words. You probably think you give off a sophisticated air but you just look like a coward who doesn't have an argument.

 

[Embattle]

Words are largely pointless on this subject and any political ones when people such as yourself have proven time and again to do little more than get your kickers in a twist on everything that doesn't suit your personal prejudice.

 

[Scouse]

Rubbish. It's long been your line but you find it wearisome having to defend and back up the positions you hold...

 

[Yoni]

I am not sure personal prejudice is correct @Embattle for many of the people here. If it was, the comfortably off, high to very high earners amongst us and there are a few, would be Tory all the way and that is not what I can see here..... I see a south / south west bias and a white man van bias towards Tory because it is what suits your personal economies best - from what I have seen on my FB it isn’t just the teachers / nurses and doctors who are voting Labour any more - my finance connections (there are many as it is my profession) who will also not be voting Tory this time around - sadly I do not think it will be enough - but I hope that the Tories are paralyzed again - their campaign has been nothing short of disgusting.

 

[Wij]

Voted Labour even though I don’t like Corbyn at all. It was the only realistic choice to unseat our local Tory.

Happy to pay higher corporation tax to fund public services.

 

[Scouse]

Voted Labour even though I don’t like Corbyn at all. It was the only realistic choice to unseat our local Tory.

Happy to pay higher corporation tax to fund public services.

I'll still be voting green this evening. Safe labour seat. Might have had to think about it if it was at all close but because of this I don't have to think about what can be done, and can vote about what should be done.

Edit: Either way - Labour or Tory I'm out of a job because of the combo of IR35 and brexit

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Moriath]

Bollocks to this sentiment. When we we ran an agrarian society we could feed and house our children.

If capitalism doesn't provide enough good work so people are comfortable - not living on the breadline, but comfortable, then it's not a system worth maintaining in its current form.


Edit: As to this:

CEOs shouldn't be getting paid orders of magnitude more than their staff.

Upper and lower limits to wealth accumulation are needed.

I have said for a long time capitalism is a broken system.

i also agree that ceo doesnt need 100 or even 1000 times the pay of a average worker.

But its the system we are in at the moment and as such we all have to live within our means. Whatever they would be.

 

[Moriath]

Seriously if you “had it” so bad why would you think it is ok for other people and their kids to?

this is just all wrong.....children in the UK (as Job says the biggest and best economy in Europe) are starving and self harming and the reaction is - I had it poor when I was growing up and then blame the parents.

I just feel sickened and disappointment and ashamed

I am not saying its a good system. Or a good system. Just how it is.

and with the ability to control fertility people need to be responsible with family planning and not demand the state look after their off spring.
Obviously if circumstances change after a child is born we have a duty to cushion the impact. But to have 10 kids with no income is irresponsible in the extreme. What prospects do those kids have? If the parents had been responsible they would have gotten jobs and sorted out finances so they didnt have to rely on the state for their brood.

 

[Yoni]

I am not saying its a good system. Or a good system. Just how it is.

and with the ability to control fertility people need to be responsible with family planning and not demand the state look after their off spring.
Obviously if circumstances change after a child is born we have a duty to cushion the impact. But to have 10 kids with no income is irresponsible in the extreme. What prospects do those kids have? If the parents had been responsible they would have gotten jobs and sorted out finances so they didnt have to rely on the state for their brood.

Vote to change it then - it really doesn’t have to be this way and it is super sad that you feel it is

 

[Scouse]

But its the system we are in at the moment and as such we all have to live within our means. Whatever they would be.

Nope. No no no no no.

Apartheid was a system, it was a broken system, are you saying dem' niggers should have kept schtum and acted how the system said they should act - because "it's the sytem they were in at the moment".

Of course not - and you cannot expect animals not to have children just because the system they live in is fucking horrendous. We are not supposed to be slaves - capitalism does indeed make us wage slaves. Having kids if you want them, despite unaffordability because of a disgusting system, is the action of free people - people who are being made to suffer to keep the rich in shits and giggles.

The lack of solidarity with other humans always annoyed the fuck out of me - but then, that's by-design too.

 

[Embattle]

Vote to change it then - it really doesn’t have to be this way and it is super sad that you feel it is

No it doesn't but I doubt only of the other parties can firstly do what they preach or intend to do anything that doesn't involve self interest.

 

[Scouse]

No it doesn't but I doubt only of the other parties can firstly do what they preach or intend to do anything that doesn't involve self interest.

So, we know the tories are going to act out of self-interest anyway and not change anything. Labour may well act out of self interest - but in nearly 50 years on this planet I know one thing 100% for certain

- when the tories are in power there's homeless people everywhere. When Labour are in power, they have somewhere to sleep other than the streets.

 

[Scouse]

Very interesting - from the most senior foreign policy advisor to Cameron

“The bald fact for me is British foreign policy – as I was brought up to recognise it – came to an end in September 2013, when David Cameron made a conscious decision to stop being an activist prime minister on foreign policy after he lost the Syrian vote in the Commons. Since then it is very difficult to name an issue on which Britain has made the running in the international space.”

Juicy stuff about Boris too.

 

[Embattle]

Really isn't that interesting or new, beyond MPs and PMs I'm not sure anyone thought that way since 1945.

 

[Yoni]

Sorry but ” the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

Have we as a nation learned nothing from 2nd world war?

By accepting British society as is - effectively you are doing nothing.... there needs to be change - massive change - we need to stop this shit from happening - voting for same old same old is not going to stimulate the change - all there will be is more people suffering and in some cases dying horribly from cold / hunger / lack of treatment etc etc

Voting for me this time was really difficult - I am absolutely an LD however in my constituency they don’t stand a chance and I was not enamored by some of their campaigning.. I voted in the end for change - if it is the Bozza nightmare tomorrow morning I will be slow clapping a lot in the coming 5 years ...

 

[JBP|]

Sorry but ” the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

Have we as a nation learned nothing from 2nd world war?

By accepting British society as is - effectively you are doing nothing.... there needs to be change - massive change - we need to stop this shit from happening - voting for same old same old is not going to stimulate the change - all there will be is more people suffering and in some cases dying horribly from cold / hunger / lack of treatment etc etc

Voting for me this time was really difficult - I am absolutely an LD however in my constituency they don’t stand a chance and I was not enamored by some of their campaigning.. I voted in the end for change - if it is the Bozza nightmare tomorrow morning I will be slow clapping a lot in the coming 5 years ...

Did the same thing myself, somewhat reluctantly.

 

[BloodOmen]

Sorry but ” the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

Have we as a nation learned nothing from 2nd world war?

By accepting British society as is - effectively you are doing nothing.... there needs to be change - massive change - we need to stop this shit from happening - voting for same old same old is not going to stimulate the change - all there will be is more people suffering and in some cases dying horribly from cold / hunger / lack of treatment etc etc

Voting for me this time was really difficult - I am absolutely an LD however in my constituency they don’t stand a chance and I was not enamored by some of their campaigning.. I voted in the end for change - if it is the Bozza nightmare tomorrow morning I will be slow clapping a lot in the coming 5 years ...

All we can hope for now is a hung parliament... at least if the tories don't have an outright majority, they can't just ram anything they want through the house.

 

[BloodOmen]

I mean it is all we can hope for @Embattle obviously it doesn't stop them from getting stuff through but it makes it a lot harder.

 

[Moriath]

Vote to change it then - it really doesn’t have to be this way and it is super sad that you feel it is

No party is offering something that isnt capitalism

 

[BloodOmen]

The absolute dream would be people rejecting all of the bollocks papers have been spewing for weeks and all of the bollocks and shady shit the tories have been doing... that really would be the dream and that would also make newspapers shit a fucking brick because for once, society will have turned against them.

Pipe dream naturally... still a fucking good one.

 

[Job]

Its all our own fault.

The vast majority of our money goes on houses which are inflated way beyond their actual physical value.

So we sign up to a lifetime of drudgery..no one forces you to work, you choose to, for the vast majority of people, so they can have a bigger house....and maybe that 450 quid a month lease Audi, so you can feel youve 'made it'.

Ive got my van...an ordinary little house in a beautiful area and I work as little as possible....all you have is time.

 

[Scouse]

No party is offering something that isnt capitalism

True, but there are variants of the ruleset.

Don't be conned with this "free market" shit. There's nothing "free" about it. It's been carefully constructed over a long time to deliver the outcomes it produces.

 

[Gwadien]

Its all our own fault.

The vast majority of our money goes on houses which are inflated way beyond their actual physical value.

So we sign up to a lifetime of drudgery..no one forces you to work, you choose to, for the vast majority of people, so they can have a bigger house....and maybe that 450 quid a month lease Audi, so you can feel youve 'made it'.

Ive got my van...an ordinary little house in a beautiful area and I work as little as possible....all you have is time.

what do you mean, no-one forces you to work?

 

[Yoni]

Its all our own fault.

The vast majority of our money goes on houses which are inflated way beyond their actual physical value.

So we sign up to a lifetime of drudgery..no one forces you to work, you choose to, for the vast majority of people, so they can have a bigger house....and maybe that 450 quid a month lease Audi, so you can feel youve 'made it'.

Ive got my van...an ordinary little house in a beautiful area and I work as little as possible....all you have is time.

The banks should be ensuring that loans secured on mortgages are used to increase the value of the house not buy a motorboat or super dooper car.....

 

[Scouse]

what do you mean, no-one forces you to work?

Fantasy @Job.

I mean, nobody has forced me to work. I only needed to do so if I didn't want to be homeless and destitute.

With the way that interest and inflation works (with the 2% target) to not be homeless and destitute then I'm committed to a lifetime of it. I've been working minimum 14 hour days since August without a full day off and I'm one of the very luckiest ones - because I can buy the house I want in the place I want.

But I ain't spending big. Just a little over average house price. Exit strategy in mind. 90% of spend goes on debt repayment. No kids allows me that.

I don't know how anyone on average wage would live, never mind minimum wage.

 

[Gwadien]

Fantasy @Job.

I mean, nobody has forced me to work. I only needed to do so if I didn't want to be homeless and destitute.

With the way that interest and inflation works (with the 2% target) to not be homeless and destitute then I'm committed to a lifetime of it. I've been working minimum 14 hour days since August without a full day off and I'm one of the very luckiest ones - because I can buy the house I want in the place I want.

But I ain't spending big. Just a little over average house price. Exit strategy in mind. 90% of spend goes on debt repayment. No kids allow me that.

I think Job genuinely believes that anyone can just live off benefits, receive enough to survive AND it not being denied if you can work.

 

[Job]

The problem is we are obsessed with showing off.
Cars, houses, holidays....

The only way to be truly happy is to completely and honestly remove envy from your life, not many people manage it...took me 20 years.

Its better than a 500% pay rise.

 

[Scouse]

The problem is we are obsessed with showing off.
Cars, houses, holidays....

The only way to be truly happy is to completely and honestly remove envy from your life, not many people manage it...took me 20 years.

Its better than a 500% pay rise.

That's very nice if you are financially secure and an admirable aim.

But 1) not everyone is and 2) you already acknowledge it's hard and we live in a society set up to stimulate it - so you can't vilify humans who can't do it.

 

[Gumbo]

Related to the overspawning part of this thread between Moriath and Yoni.

No current colour of government is offering any real answer to the extremes at the worst of the problem. And scouse, for sections of society there is no realistic job that you could provide these people which would encourage them into work. Our highly evolved society doesn't have the stomach for the obvious solution. The outcome is a massively expensive, overburdened care system.

One of our foster kids, as a result of the failure to deal with the problem, is now attending a provision, at a cost to the taxpayer which would pay for three children to attend Eton. That's one child of six from this family. I'm struggling to find the average tax paid in the UK, but just imagine how many working people are paying for the care of the offspring of this one family?