Politics Election 2019

[Scouse]

And scouse, for sections of society there is no realistic job that you could provide these people which would encourage them into work. Our highly evolved society doesn't have the stomach for the obvious solution.

Can you detail this obvious solution please Gumbo.

Don't mince your words please - spit it out.

 

[Gumbo]

Can you detail this obvious solution please Gumbo.

Don't mince your words please - spit it out.

Sure, in my opinion..

When someone has had, say, two children and is already under the supervision of social services, because of concerns over their ability to care for the children that they already have. There should be an option to apply to a family court judge for the person concerned to have a contraceptive implant inserted until such time as they can consistently demonstrate their ability to provide the existing children with a safe and stable upbringing.

Instead, it often takes many many years (8 in our lads case) to eventually do the inevitable removal of now six children into massively expensive care. The children are damaged, the parents are damaged, the economy is damaged and society is damaged.

But we won't have the stomach to enforce temporary contraception on people already damaging all of the above.

We obviously have a lot of contact with social workers and other foster carers, and this is a widely repeated set of circumstances. And honestly a widely held belief among those left to pick up the pieces.

In Norfolk in 2018 there were 1,200 children waiting for places in care (Foster carers in demand with 1,200 children needing a home) Norfolk is a relatively affluent county so if it's that bad here...

 

[Scouse]

They would, of course, just dig the implant out.

 

[Gumbo]

Perhaps. Maybe there should be a harder to remove one developed. Or your benefits get steadily reduced every time you remove it.

I'm not sure that the present trend of allowing people to spawn many many children with no idea of how, or inclination to care for them is sustainable though.

Yes there should be better carrots, but there's currently no stick, until it's too late, and the care system picks up the pieces. At the coalface of which is people who are willing to take these kids on, none of whom come without issues. My other half does most of it, I just support her with it, but I have no clue how she finds the patience and energy to do so. We went to our agencies Christmas dinner for carers the other day. We should have been forgetting fostering and enjoying the meal, but of course you end up talking about what you all have in common. It's heartbreaking and so unnecessary in so many cases. Of course we couldn't all get drunk and have a good laugh because we all had to shoot off at 2ish for the school runs

 

[Job]

Ha..sterilising the poor, that was all the rage in the 20s...and kinda went on to be a core of the Third Reich.

Of course if you get rid of the poor, then youre next.

 

[Gumbo]

Not sterilising, more enforced, reversible contraceptive imposition. In certain circumstances, only when ordered by the judiciary.

It's a point for discussion.

 

[Job]

They used to do it to couples with severe learning difficulties caused by genetics that can be passed on.

Downs etc.
Its just too slippery a slope.

 

[Gwadien]

Not sterilising, more enforced, reversible contraceptive imposition. In certain circumstances, only when ordered by the judiciary.

It's a point for discussion.

Or you properly fund social services so that they can properly support families as you have described.

@Talivar will tell you -all- about it, with real world examples (I'd hope) of situation where families have been helped in the past, now they're just monitored as they fall into a cycle of poverty until the Police pick up on it.

That's pretty much the case for most things though; as I was saying with my 'real world' example of county lines at the school I'm currently at.

Bar the school, there's no support for kids who are being targeted by criminals, you just get the Police at the gates of the school monitoring who's getting chatted to etc so they can pick them up later on.

No prevention, just playing whack a mole at an increasing intensity because the Tories have downplayed the fact they've completely decimated social services.

 

[Gwadien]

Anyway, I'm voting for the Reform Party at the next GE.

Let's get past this political shit show we are in where both of our parties appear to be attempting to cover the entire political spectrum.

Let's get PR!

 

[BloodOmen]

They reckon its the biggest turnout for voting ever... curious to see how true that is come 10 pm onwards.

 

[Gumbo]

Trouble is Gwad with properly funding..

Lets start by getting those 1200 kids into foster homes in Norfolk. You know, fight the fire before we even start on the fire prevention. Assuming none are placed on the higher rate, which god knows is deserved in some cases, but almost impossible to get... That's a cost to the taxpayer, just in payments to foster carers of...

Spoiler

£24,960,000 Yes £25 million a year, in payments to foster carers. Easily quadruple that in the other costs associated with Looked After Children

That's on top of all the kids already in care. That much just to get those who need to be removed from homes, but places can't be found for them.

Leave alone the initial cost in social work, barristers, assessments etc to get them all actually taken into care initially which would be somewhere like...

Spoiler

£60,000,000 £60 MILLION

Right that's the fires fought. Using the tax take of what 30,000 taxpayers. In Norfolk alone?

Now how do we stop adding fuel to the fire with money?

Perhaps we could offer the implants in exchange for an increased payment, assuming they don't claw it out?

 

[Moriath]

True, but there are variants of the ruleset.

Don't be conned with this "free market" shit. There's nothing "free" about it. It's been carefully constructed over a long time to deliver the outcomes it produces.

I am not conned by a free anything tbh.

 

[Moriath]

Sure, in my opinion..

When someone has had, say, two children and is already under the supervision of social services, because of concerns over their ability to care for the children that they already have. There should be an option to apply to a family court judge for the person concerned to have a contraceptive implant inserted until such time as they can consistently demonstrate their ability to provide the existing children with a safe and stable upbringing.

Instead, it often takes many many years (8 in our lads case) to eventually do the inevitable removal of now six children into massively expensive care. The children are damaged, the parents are damaged, the economy is damaged and society is damaged.

But we won't have the stomach to enforce temporary contraception on people already damaging all of the above.

We obviously have a lot of contact with social workers and other foster carers, and this is a widely repeated set of circumstances. And honestly a widely held belief among those left to pick up the pieces.

In Norfolk in 2018 there were 1,200 children waiting for places in care (Foster carers in demand with 1,200 children needing a home) Norfolk is a relatively affluent county so if it's that bad here...

But i got critisised for suggesting people should be limited in the family sense. I agree with all you say.

 

[Moriath]

Or you properly fund social services so that they can properly support families as you have described.

@Talivar will tell you -all- about it, with real world examples (I'd hope) of situation where families have been helped in the past, now they're just monitored as they fall into a cycle of poverty until the Police pick up on it.

That's pretty much the case for most things though; as I was saying with my 'real world' example of county lines at the school I'm currently at.

Bar the school, there's no support for kids who are being targeted by criminals, you just get the Police at the gates of the school monitoring who's getting chatted to etc so they can pick them up later on.

No prevention, just playing whack a mole at an increasing intensity because the Tories have downplayed the fact they've completely decimated social services.

There would never be enough money to do that. Even the great attenborough is for some population control.

 

[Embattle]

I am not conned by a free anything tbh.

That's because nothing is free.

 

[Moriath]

Woot exit pole majority of 86. Now to see if it happens

 

[Embattle]

Exit polls look bad for quite a lot of you:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50765773

 

[Moriath]

Exit polls look bad for quite a lot of you:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50765773

Glenn

 

[Yoni]

Exit polls look bad for quite a lot of you:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50765773

Begins a slow clap

 

[Embattle]

Begins a slow clap

I demand a gif of some sort to go with it.

 

[Gumbo]

Surely now Momentum has to be removed from Labour, or all those sane left leaning politicians have to leave a completely fucking broken Labour party. My smaller left testicle would have done a better job over the last few years of open Tory goals, culminating in a complete failure to defend our country against a self inflicted gushot wound to the throat.

FFS.

 

[Job]

Decimated.

And thankyou Nigel for standing down.


Worries 5 million labour voters have lied to exit pollsters.

 

[BloodOmen]

Exit polls look bad for quite a lot of you:

Conservatives on course to win majority - exit poll

Aye, looks brutal for Labour. Here's to hoping for once they aren't accurate... I believe the exit poll results are only accurate if people fill in the mock ballots.

 

[Job]

If the 9 libdem suporters on here had voted ..we could probably see the difference.

 

[Yoni]

That isn’t what people voted re Lib Dem - that was the initial who will you vote for

 

[Yoni]

I demand a gif of some sort to go with it.

It will be facepalm until we get one

 

[dysfunction]

I really do hope the exit polls are wrong. Very sad if thats the result. Almost as bad as losing the referendum

If they are correct then Corbyn has to go. Some of his policies would have frightened people off.

 

[Embattle]

I really do hope the exit polls are wrong. Very sad if thats the result. Almost as bad as losing the referendum

If they are correct then Corbyn has to go. Some of his policies would have frightened people off.

They may well be wrong, but wrong by the amount you want not a chance.

Corbyn was always problematic but then so were some of those around him and groups like momentum, also I think the more they tried to give away the worse it got because it almost became reckless.

 

[dysfunction]

They may well be wrong, but wrong by the amount you want not a chance.

Corbyn was always problematic but then so were some of those around him and groups like momentum, also I think the more they tried to give away the worse it got because it almost became reckless.

Yes but Boris!!

 

[Embattle]

Yes but Boris!!

Indeed, but as I've said multiple times even though Boris is a tit and the conservatives managed to roll grenades into their own bunker more than once that is just how unpalatable JC and his cohorts really were.

The nice lady who gives me a sports message voted remain in the ref and normally votes Lib Dem, she objected to not acknowledging the result of the ref and now just wanted it done but she also disliked Jo Swinson for some reason thus she planned to vote for the Tories.