Politics Election 2019

[caLLous]

Yes you're correct

Aren't you an accountant?

 

[dysfunction]

Aren't you an accountant?

Yes. I was meant to write include.
I'm tired and been in the pub.

 

[Moriath]

Man. My hangover is *minging*.

@Moriath - take your £1 in 2010 is £1.27 now (which is not exactly how to describe it - but does show you need 27 pence per 2010 pound more to *stay even*) - and apply that to your shitty graph.

Oh yeah. Looks different doesn't it!

So this is bollocks then cause real terms includes corrections for inflation

 

[DaGaffer]

So this is bollocks then cause real terms includes corrections for inflation

Jesus. Did anyone bother to do the actual maths rather than just pull random graphs off websites, which by the way shows the NHS England budget only and is NOT inflation adjusted? If you get the actual Health budget figures and the actual year by year inflation rates, the Health budget increase has been below inflation for five of the last nine years and above for four, which is actually important given the way budgets actually work. In addition that budget rise over the last decade takes no account of the fact that the UK population has increased by 7% over that time and worse, the population over 65 has gone from 21 to 25%. All this data is ONS and if you bother to do some basic maths it shows a. how fucked the NHS is, and b. how fucked the UK is. This isn't politics, its demographics.

So if you don't won't to start euthanasing everyone over 65 (and frankly since 2016 I'd be sorely fucking tempted) you're going to need to spend a lot more on the NHS. And just to be clear, UK isn't in the top tier of public healthcare spending; 7.2% of GDP is well below several other EU countries, and is a smaller percentage of GDP than the UK was spending in 2010 (7.65%).

 

[Embattle]

The NHS budget and how it has changed

 

[Moriath]

Jesus. Did anyone bother to do the actual maths rather than just pull random graphs off websites, which by the way shows the NHS England budget only and is NOT inflation adjusted? If you get the actual Health budget figures and the actual year by year inflation rates, the Health budget increase has been below inflation for five of the last nine years and above for four, which is actually important given the way budgets actually work. In addition that budget rise over the last decade takes no account of the fact that the UK population has increased by 7% over that time and worse, the population over 65 has gone from 21 to 25%. All this data is ONS and if you bother to do some basic maths it shows a. how fucked the NHS is, and b. how fucked the UK is. This isn't politics, its demographics.

So if you don't won't to start euthanasing everyone over 65 (and frankly since 2016 I'd be sorely fucking tempted) you're going to need to spend a lot more on the NHS. And just to be clear, UK isn't in the top tier of public healthcare spending; 7.2% of GDP is well below several other EU countries, and is a smaller percentage of GDP than the UK was spending in 2010 (7.65%).

Why cant you see its inflation adjusted graph. Real terms dude.

yes we have increased population and over 65s are more. The nhs can always use more money. What @Scouse was saying was the money went down over the last 15 years. And it demonstrably didnt go down. In real terms. It didnt go up as much as everyone would have liked. But its a period of austerity, correcting the spending after the 2008 banking crisis etc. So everywhere has had to make savings. And I am sure theres some wastage in the nhs that could be better used.

scotland and wales have their own budgets and spend on their parts of the nhs.

 

[Job]

More, its old white peoples fault again from the Guard.

Labour failed to engage older voters – and after 100 hours canvassing, I know why | Luke Pagarani

 

[dysfunction]

More, its old white peoples fault again from the Guard.

Labour failed to engage older voters – and after 100 hours canvassing, I know why | Luke Pagarani

Yet again it's an opinion piece. Ffs

 

[Job]

Guards opinion pieces are 95% the 'opinions of the management.'

 

[Gwadien]

Why cant you see its inflation adjusted graph. Real terms dude.

yes we have increased population and over 65s are more. The nhs can always use more money. What @Scouse was saying was the money went down over the last 15 years. And it demonstrably didnt go down. In real terms. It didnt go up as much as everyone would have liked. But its a period of austerity, correcting the spending after the 2008 banking crisis etc. So everywhere has had to make savings. And I am sure theres some wastage in the nhs that could be better used.

scotland and wales have their own budgets and spend on their parts of the nhs.

A period of austerity.

'correcting the spending'

Hahaha...

The problem is that we have boom and bust capitalism, but the difference is that we're allowing the super rich to have their own boom whilst the rest of us are still bust, so people think having a chronically underfunded NHS is justified because they're poor too.

 

[Job]

So sweet.
Gina smugface Millers 'resignation' letter.
A load of bullshit bingo actually..but I'll take it.
https://www.remainunited.org/

 

[caLLous]

As if you read it.

 

[Moriath]

A period of austerity.

'correcting the spending'

Hahaha...

The problem is that we have boom and bust capitalism, but the difference is that we're allowing the super rich to have their own boom whilst the rest of us are still bust, so people think having a chronically underfunded NHS is justified because they're poor too.

As you know i think capitalism is broken. So i agree with you. But while we are using that model then we have to be bound by its rules. Which unfortunately means the few are isolated from its ups and downs.

whats your solution comrade?

 

[Gwadien]

As you know i think capitalism is broken. So i agree with you. But while we are using that model then we have to be bound by its rules. Which unfortunately means the few are isolated from its ups and downs.

whats your solution comrade?

To address the problem that you've acknowledged, rather than just sitting back and saying 'nah i'm alright m8.'

You say it's broken, but you're voting for it.

 

[Moriath]

To address the problem that you've acknowledged, rather than just sitting back and saying 'nah i'm alright m8.'

You say it's broken, but you're voting for it.

Its not as broken as socialism. See how that worked put in the ussr.

 

[Yoni]

Its not as broken as socialism. See how that worked put in the ussr.

Really depends on your definition of socialism - the USSR tried following a Marxist form of socialism which from an ideologial stance is a beautiful thing but Stalin's form of socialism progressed to comunism was nothing more than a totalitarian dictatorship and has nothing to do with the roots of socialism at all. Just like ill interpreted forms of socialism there are issues with capitalism also (extreme inequality, ecological issues, abuse of resources, extreme nationalism, state capitalism etc) both forms at their purest theoretically give utopia but neither is realistic and the truth is somewhere in between.

My beliefs are that currently US / UK are moving slowing into extreme forms of capitalism and humans have a choice to make - to support that or to take action and adopt "some" socialist tendancies.

For example having worked in both NL and Sweden I now understand and see the benefit of unions / workers councils. In both countries these groups hold the coroporation accountable for the treatment of the "workers" they are valuable stakeholders in an organisation. In neither country did I experience extreme striking (as found in France), but what I did find was two groups one whose main interest is the shareholders and one whose main interest is the wellbeing of the workers, together making decisions that long term benefit both.

There are naturally some parts I did not think worked well specifically salary increases given to all, even poor performers, however the statutory increases are nows so low even if you have a poor performer one is able to differentiate.

What I love about specifically the Swedish system is that as an employee "I" have someone to talk to if I want to - in the UK the answer was "you have a choice, if you don't like it you can leave". Additionally in the UK it was very very difficult to deal with poor management and it was often too late before the issues of he terribad manger were solved. The workers councils / unions are excellent at keeping us managers in check and discussing / investigating employee issues that are reported.

 

[Wij]

Fucks sake:


View: https://twitter.com/MatthewGreen02/status/1208691501523443712

 

[caLLous]

Tories break promise on minimum wage hike just a week into their administration

 

[BloodOmen]

Tories break promise on minimum wage hike just a week into their administration

And people are honestly surprised? they're going to break 90% of their promises - it was all bollocks to reinforce the bollocks the papers were pushing to prop them up.

If you fell for it, you're fucking gullible (not you @caLLous - people in general)

 

[Moriath]

Tories break promise on minimum wage hike just a week into their administration

Ok so its not cancelled then. If it doesnt happen by 2024 then you can say they broke the promise.

 

[Job]

Lol.
Still believing election promises.
1000 yrs and counting.

 

[Job]

Its the 25th and Corbyn is still in charge of the Labour party.

 

[dysfunction]

Its the 25th and Corbyn is still in charge of the Labour party.

And?

They have not even decided who is taking part in the leadership process

 

[Wij]

Britain First says 5,000 of its members have joined Tories

 

[Job]

How quick they turn.
Graham Nortons intro had two jokes mocking Corbyn and praising Boris.

 

[Job]

Britain First says 5,000 of its members have joined Tories

Thats a lot less than Labour supporters who joined last week.

 

[Moriath]

Tories break promise on minimum wage hike just a week into their administration

National living wage to rise by 6.2% in April

They making the first steps. Nearly 7% raise this year.

 

[Gwadien]

National living wage to rise by 6.2% in April

They making the first steps. Nearly 7% raise this year.

My god.

The national living wage is what the minimum wage should be.

The national living wage is an absolute joke; 'in order to live decently you need to earn this much, but we're going to let companies pay you lots less!'

If you think it's a good idea, you're a moron.

Its like applauding the government for saying 'the NHS is chronically underfunded, we acknowledge that, but we're not going to give it anymore money'.

 

[Moriath]

My god.

The national living wage is what the minimum wage should be.

The national living wage is an absolute joke; 'in order to live decently you need to earn this much, but we're going to let companies pay you lots less!'

If you think it's a good idea, you're a moron.

Its like applauding the government for saying 'the NHS is chronically underfunded, we acknowledge that, but we're not going to give it anymore money'.

The company i am a director of pay our staff the living wage. It helps a lot of people.

 

[Gwadien]

The company i am a director of pay our staff the living wage. It helps a lot of people.

That's great.

But there's more companies out there that will pay the minimum wage, which obviously isn't enough, because the Government are nicely asking people to pay more.