Politics Election 2019

[Scouse]

Make an argument for not stripping these six of 99% of their assets when they die.

(Consider that it would still leave each estate with 65 million on average).

 

[Job]

So communism it is then.


And no money for anyone.

 

[DaGaffer]

Make an argument for not stripping these six of 99% of their assets when they die.

(Consider that it would still leave each estate with 65 million on average).

Because they wouldn't stop (or start) there; the super-rich will simply offshore everything (because they can afford to), and Labour would simply keep heading down the income funnel until they get to the people who can't salt their money away, which will be the middle classes. Again. That's how this shit always works.

 

[Scouse]

It's a weak argument - along the lines of saying we shouldn't bother doing anything about global warming because the USA won't do shit. There's always an excuse for inaction.

I don't buy your taxation trickle-down either. You could easily go after just billionaries or 100m+ millionaires. They don't pay any tax anyway - so even if they offshore (which they've probably already done) then the net loss to us is just six cunts.

When Warren Buffet is screaming "tax us! - I pay less tax than my secretary" I find it absurd that the not-obscenely-rich argue against even trying.

 

[dysfunction]

It's a weak argument - along the lines of saying we shouldn't bother doing anything about global warming because the USA won't do shit. There's always an excuse for inaction.

I don't buy your taxation trickle-down either. You could easily go after just billionaries or 100m+ millionaires. They don't pay any tax anyway - so even if they offshore (which they've probably already done) then the net loss to us is just six cunts.

When Warren Buffet is screaming "tax us! - I pay less tax than my secretary" I find it absurd that the not-obscenely-rich argue against even trying.

In order to achieve it you would need a global wealth distribution system.

Exactly the same as we need for climate change. Yes we can do our bit but if others dont follow we will fail.

 

[Scouse]

In order to achieve it you would need a global wealth distribution system.

Exactly the same as we need for climate change. Yes we can do our bit but if others dont follow we will fail.

So lets do nothing?

Like I said - big deal. It's no loss to us anyway. (plus, I disagree that they'd simply offshore and leave blighty - people have friends and family and it could be made very difficult for them).

 

[Scouse]

What would you say to billionaires Warren Buffet and Bill Gates then @Embattle?

 

[DaGaffer]

It's a weak argument - along the lines of saying we shouldn't bother doing anything about global warming because the USA won't do shit. There's always an excuse for inaction.

I don't buy your taxation trickle-down either. You could easily go after just billionaries or 100m+ millionaires. They don't pay any tax anyway - so even if they offshore (which they've probably already done) then the net loss to us is just six cunts.

When Warren Buffet is screaming "tax us! - I pay less tax than my secretary" I find it absurd that the not-obscenely-rich argue against even trying.

The problem here is you're coming from the perspective of "its obscene these people have this much money" whereas I'm coming from "we need tax receipts of x to do y". Chasing six billionaires is fine, but it will inevitably fail to do the thing tax systems are supposed to do, which is pay for stuff for the public good. Of course they need to be taxed more, but bollocks about taking away 99% of their money is counter-productive grandstanding that won't achieve its goal, but the government will still have a spending plan which they'll need to fund...

 

[Scouse]

The problem here is you're coming from the perspective of "its obscene these people have this much money" whereas I'm coming from "we need tax receipts of x to do y". Chasing six billionaires is fine, but it will inevitably fail to do the thing tax systems are supposed to do, which is pay for stuff for the public good. Of course they need to be taxed more, but bollocks about taking away 99% of their money is counter-productive grandstanding that won't achieve its goal, but the government will still have a spending plan which they'll need to fund...

Disagree. I think that, specifically in this case, taking 99% of a six dead peoples money away - leaving their kids paupered having to share 65million between them is not only not grandstanding, but necessary if we're going to even start getting a democratic society back on track.

With what we know about money and aspiration this structural fix to our broken economic system would make no difference to people's behaviours - Zuck would still be Zuck if Facebook only earned him 50 million quid instead of 50 billion quid.

Of course, what needs to happen is a structural reform that prevents billionaires being created in the first place - at a certain level of wealth that productivity should be used for the benefit of all mankind, not single people.

And yes, there are severe and inherent issues in allowing that level of wealth to simply exist.

 

[DaGaffer]

Disagree. I think that, specifically in this case, taking 99% of a six dead peoples money away - leaving their kids paupered having to share 65million between them is not only not grandstanding, but necessary if we're going to even start getting a democratic society back on track.

With what we know about money and aspiration this structural fix to our broken economic system would make no difference to people's behaviours - Zuck would still be Zuck if Facebook only earned him 50 million quid instead of 50 billion quid.

Of course, what needs to happen is a structural reform that prevents billionaires being created in the first place - at a certain level of wealth that productivity should be used for the benefit of all mankind, not single people.

And yes, there are severe and inherent issues in allowing that level of wealth to simply exist.

But you won't get 99% of their money! That's my whole point.

 

[dysfunction]

So lets do nothing?

No you can do something but it won't have the impact that you would like. It may make a small dent and that's about it.

 

[Embattle]

What would you say to billionaires Warren Buffet and Bill Gates then @Embattle?

They talk a good game just like you.

 

[Scouse]

But you won't get 99% of their money! That's my whole point.

Already addressed that.

 

[Scouse]

They talk a good game just like you.

Unlike you, who doesn't hold any sort of defensible position.

Come on. What would you say to them. Take their assertions at face value.

 

[DaGaffer]

Already addressed that.

No you really haven't.

 

[Scouse]

Still in the headlines.

Don't see the tories or lib dems being asked to apologise repeatedly and forcefully.

So "antisemitism" and "labour" is still in the forefront.

 

[Embattle]

Unlike you, who doesn't hold any sort of defensible position.

Come on. What would you say to them. Take their assertions at face value.

Whereas you think you do with a unworkable one.

 

[Scouse]

Whereas you think you do with a unworkable one.

Answer the question or quit whining

 

[Yoni]

Taxation works best at source - so start to implement systems which make it difficult for companies / individuals to dodge ie electronic IDs linked to everything including shares / company ownership / income / bank accounts.

When you receive a tax form it should be 99% done with the burden of proof on the individual / entity to reduce the tax burden. Punitive fines should be introduced for dodgers (including falsifying returns etc)

 

[Scouse]

Taxation works best at source - so start to implement systems which make it difficult for companies / individuals to dodge ie electronic IDs linked to everything including shares / company ownership / income / bank accounts.

When you receive a tax form it should be 99% done with the burden of proof on the individual / entity to reduce the tax burden. Punitive fines should be introduced for dodgers (including falsifying returns etc)

Not what we're talking about. We're talking about a necessary wealth tax to correct structural imbalances.

 

[Embattle]

Which won't work.

 

[Job]

I think this has been discussed to death since we invented money.

Capitalism is the only system that lines up with human nature...so much so that millions of poor people vote to keep it.

Because theyre not poor...they just have the economy version of paradise.

 

[Job]

What is money?
Its just tokens to get people to do stuff for you, and they in turn use it to get people to do stuff for them.
The poverty line in the UK is still the same as having a hundred slaves, because of economic progress.

Its an affront to the real poor of the world to call people poor in the UK.
If you redistributed it and ignored the game over problems that would cause..its about 3 grand each.

The benefits cap in Britain is 28K.

 

[Gwadien]

I have a friend who can't work because she has severe mental health issues.

She gets £20 a month from the Government.

 

[Yoni]

Not what we're talking about. We're talking about a necessary wealth tax to correct structural imbalances.

Sorry but you are hypothesising about something that will absolutely never ever happen so there is no point. The way forward is to tax directly people earning over an amount of money per year that is considered obscene.

I know this view is unpopular with you (and others( but as has been said a government needs x amount to support its services and direct taxation is the best way to achieve this.

@Job re capitalism stop talking bullshit it may have been the view of your generation, however the new generation are far more selfless (from what I have seen)

 

[Yoni]

What is money?
Its just tokens to get people to do stuff for you, and they in turn use it to get people to do stuff for them.
The poverty line in the UK is still the same as having a hundred slaves, because of economic progress.

Its an affront to the real poor of the world to call people poor in the UK.
If you redistributed it and ignored the game over problems that would cause..its about 3 grand each.

The benefits cap in Britain is 28K.

if you actually paid your taxes rather than dodging them it would help tbfh

 

[Job]

I have a friend who can't work because she has severe mental health issues.

She gets £20 a month from the Government.

And yet still the benefits cap is 28K.
That statement is just ridiculous isnt it, twenty pounds a month..is that it.
Does she live in a tent and live on rice?

 

[Gwadien]

No, she gets £20 a month from the Government.

She lives with her mum.

 

[fettoken]

I have a friend who can't work because she has severe mental health issues.

She gets £20 a month from the Government.

That is fucked. How does she manage?
Also, on the topic of stripping/taxing the rich and what i think has been mentioned above; It won’t make a difference because pouring a shit-ton of money on a shit Government that cant/won’t/doesn’t effectively spend money solves nothing. It’s just water down the drain.

 

[Moriath]

That is fucked. How does she manage?
Also, on the topic of stripping/taxing the rich and what i think has been mentioned above; It won’t make a difference because pouring a shit-ton of money on a shit Government that cant/won’t/doesn’t effectively spend money solves nothing. It’s just water down the drain.

She manages cause she doesnt have to pay for rent and i guess her parents are registered carers.
@Gwadien doesnt give us her age. 19 would be different from 55. So selective horror is gained here.

However, in the system we have got need is a basis for support. If you are not paying rent and your parents are looking after you, we dont have a breakdown of her needs. Then her immediate needs may be few.

when i was house bound, struggling to hang on to ky job that my employers were trying to get me to quit( cause an employer has a duty of care). I received nothing.

i had a mortgage. Living on my own. My dad was terminally ill / died and for 6 or more years I was on a knife edge of losing everything or working through it.

just a point that just because you have mental health issues doesnt mean you are entitled to a free ride. This person may be entitled to or should have more help.

but on your description, its inconclusive. And not for any of use here to judge.

but oh what horror. !! Teacher i sheltered life doesnt live in real world !