Edward Snowden....what do you think?

[Scouse]

I've no idea. None whatsoever. Despite being asked explicit questions multiple times, I haven't been able to think of a single suggestion!

There you go Gwad. Fixed for ya m8

 

[Gwadien]

There you go Gwad. Fixed for ya m8

Why should it be my job to think of a plan of the revolution when I'm content?

 

[Shagrat]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf8ELeZDhy8

 

[Scouse]

I am pleased by this though, not that I think it'll amount to anything.

It's a shame we don't have something similar for us in the UK to fall back on. We've nothing legal to underpin our argument about illegality. The constitution of the US is the only document that gives them the ability to fight back against the Gov.


Thank fuck they're well-armed is all I can say. If they need to get rid of the government, they have the means to do so...

 

[rynnor]

Soon half the army will be on the dole - bloody revolution time !

 

[Raven]

Oh, a protest. That'll show'um

 

[Bigmac]

Yeah give the idiots another reason to pillage shops again.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Commercial companies complaining that the government is using bandwidth they can use to create money by sending us personal adds to manipulate customers.. yep that gives me hope.
It is as funny and hope giving as a government complaining that Google doesn't respect privacy.

 

[Ctuchik]

So i've been thinking about this for a while. And things like this is a double edged sword. Even though i understand (and originally wholeheartedly supported) Snowden's reasons for doing what he did i'm not entirely sure now that he has any moral ground to stand on when you look at potential consequences.

Sure outing PRISM might have been a decent idea in itself. But after thinking about it a bit it's probably safe to say that it caused more damage then he intended it to do..

Ok sure it's far from as bad as when Wikileaks got their 15 minutes of fame from Manning, but it's still going to affect people doing intelligence work that isn't even involved in that program..

Both by making their work a lot harder and even potentially putting them in more danger then what was necessary.

That's the real problem with people like Snowden and Manning, they either fail to see or don't care about any consequences of what they're about to do.

Take Manning for example, we're never gonna know if any or how many died because of what he did. But it's pretty safe to say that he ruined quite a lot of lives with it one way or another.

Did they all deserve it just because their names happen to be on those files?

Was the potential cost really worth it?

Hard to say for certain, but i'm leaning towards no personally.

Things like this do just as much damage as good.

 

[Scouse]

That's the real problem with people like Snowden and Manning, they either fail to see or don't care about any consequences of what they're about to do

The real problem with your argument Ctuchik is that you've failed to see the basic cause of the problem in the first place and that's turned you into an apologist for authority.

If the US Government wasn't committing a crime in the first place - violating it's own constitution - then Snowden would never have felt compelled to point it out at great personal cost.


The first life that was ruined by Snowden blowing the whistle on government corruption was his own. And he knew that would be the case before he did it.

 

[Aada]

At the end of the day he SIGNED the secrets act and swore an oath to keep those secrets, I hope the US gets this guy and he gets what he deserves which is life in prison.

I don't agree with what he did at all, still he took all the money thrown his way right he was getting paid a lot of money to do his job.

 

[Ctuchik]

If the US Government wasn't committing a crime in the first place - violating it's own constitution - then Snowden would never have felt compelled to point it out at great personal cost.

Sorry but fuck his personal cost. HE knew what he got himself into when he started leaking. Can't say the same for the people that will get affected by it.

And i'm not being apologetic towards anyone. I just don't think his way of doing this was any better or more morally just.

 

[DaGaffer]

Sorry but fuck his personal cost. HE knew what he got himself into when he started leaking. Can't say the same for the people that will get affected by it.

And i'm not being apologetic towards anyone. I just don't think his way of doing this was any better or more morally just.

Sorry but who will get affected or directly put in danger because of Edward Snowden? In the case of Bradley Manning, you may have a point, but not Snowden; he just made a bunch of congressmen and civil servants uncomfortable and that's about it. As for whether its morally just, at what point does it become morally just to report a crime? Because that's what he did, reveal the NSA's dirty laundry. If he worked for a bank and they were embezzling their customers, how would you feel if he reported that?

 

[caLLous]

I would say it's a very good thing what he's done. Whether he went about it in the right way or not is another matter but exposing PRISM and the attitude of the US towards their own citizens and their supposed allies can't be a bad thing.

 

[Chilly]

at the end of the day the NSA were lying to congress about the breadth of the program, he pointed that out and is now somehow a traitor. Doesn't quite stack up for me.

 

[Scouse]

Can't say the same for the people that will get affected by it

What about the people who are affected by the crime that he reported?


You don't give a fuck about them because you're deluded enough to think that governments are essentially nice and fluffy and have people's best interests at heart, and therefore whatever they want to do they should be allowed to do.

That makes you an apologist for government crimes. Period.

 

[rynnor]

I didn't agree with the manning stuff - it contained some reports which would clearly identify who the informant was in countries where they dont just put you in prison for that sorta thing.

The Snowden stuff is all embarassment and zero for national defence - all the buggers who have something to hide already assumed this was the case so only Joe public is really affected.

 

[Chilly]

He could have written to one of the congressional committees, though, I suppose. They'd have a duty to look into it. Maybe he did?

 

[Scouse]

Lavabit shut down by US government because they encrypt emails and there was a rumour that Snowden uses the service.

Their First Amendment rights are being violated by the US Government (congress passed the law Chilly - so you can see why he Snowden didn't write to them). Here's a link to what the owner of the service says.

 

[Scouse]

Nice repeat facepalm Aada. Whistleblowers have historically been protected for their non-violent political crimes. You're "but he broke teh law!"!11!!!" idiocy flys in the face of historical legal precedent.

Instead the US has been acting disgracefully < something to read for you, but I bet you'll look at the source and refuse...

 

[old.Osy]

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mailpile-taking-e-mail-back

 

[caLLous]

The US Government are acting disgracefully, there's no two ways about it. Instead of coming forward and putting their hands up after all the PRISM revelations, they're actually just ploughing on ahead, destroying peoples' freedoms as and when they can. The recent Freedom Hosting situation should be ample evidence of this. Sure, he hosted any number of disgusting sites, but he was also in charge of tormail and it looks like that was the target. Maybe there was something that they found that led to all of these embassies being shut down but tormail and now lavabit (which seems to have been targetted because of some idiot journalist blabbing that Snowden was using it) have gone. Of course criminals will use services like this but there are any number of reasons why anonymous communications are useful, if not essential.

But America doesn't like it so fuck everybody else. The sooner something catastrophic happens to that shit-heap of a government the better tbh although I expect it's already too late.

 

[Scouse]

Absolutely cracking piece about what happens when email isn't private by default...

 

[CorNokZ]

yes. bad person. who he is to djudge? america can if only snowy didnt do it. imo

 

[rynnor]

I am a bit amazed at how this case has gone - the US are basically destroying their image as a democratic country governed within limits set down by its own constitution.

I know the constitution has been under siege for a long time but at least they had to pass amendments before - now they seem to be just completely ignoring what are arguably the most fundamental clauses in their constitution.

All sacrificed in the name of fear - the enemies of democracy have already won

 

[caLLous]

The president is wrong: The NSA debate wouldn’t have happened without Snowden

 

[Shagrat]

The president is wrong: The NSA debate wouldn’t have happened without Snowden

they just keep digging that hole don't they.

 

[rynnor]

they just keep digging that hole don't they.

Yup - its blatantly untrue that they would be looking at this without Snowden when Congress had been told lies to the effect that there was no prism system.

Obama needs to use his common sense rather than listening to advisors who are up to their necks in the whole affair.

 

[Scouse]

Obama's in on it. He's just a black George Dubya.

Fixed.

 

[TdC]

tbh countries should choose their leaders from who wants to have the job the least rather than the most.