Edward Snowden....what do you think?

[TdC]

Whistleblower? Grade A idiot? About to be vanished by scary men? Already vanished?

 

[rynnor]

A man sacrificing himself for the greater good - a man of rare conscience to effectively give up his livelihood and potentially his liberty to get the truth out.

 

[Gwadien]

The fact he's vanished speaks volumes.

 

[rynnor]

The fact he's vanished speaks volumes.

Yeah - he should have gone to Russia for protection really.

 

[Chilly]

Nothing he revealed was in any way surprising or new, frankly. I think he's some self centred prick who wants attention and broke the US version of the secrets act. It's fun to poke fun at governments but let's face it: absolutely nothing will change except the penalties for this kind of thing. What happened after the diplomatic cable leaks? Nothing. Same here, guaranteed.

 

[Gwadien]

Obviously, the Americans knew where he was..

But I loved it how they said 'He's gone into hiding, in Hong Kong.'

Good job of hiding brah

 

[Chilly]

Obviously, the Americans knew where he was..

But I loved it how they said 'He's gone into hiding, in Hong Kong.'

Good job of hiding brah

Highest population density of anywhere I think. Superb place to hide.

 

[Hawkwind]

A man sacrificing himself for the greater good - a man of rare conscience to effectively give up his livelihood and potentially his liberty to get the truth out.

A man that worked on these projects for years before his conscience got pricked

 

[Gwadien]

Highest population density of anywhere I think. Superb place to hide.

Obviously not

 

[rynnor]

A man that worked on these projects for years before his conscience got pricked

It's not a decision you would take overnight though and you don't know how much he knew when.

 

[Scouse]

A man that worked on these projects for years before his conscience got pricked

Do you throw your toys out of the pram on day 1? Did you watch the full video with him?

He spent the last 3 months in Hawaii, earning "tons" of money in paradise, yet he chose to bring that to an end...

 

[Hawkwind]

It's not a decision you would take overnight though and you don't know how much he knew when.

We also don't know his motives for doing it, disgruntled employee that was on his way out, pissed of with his arse of a boss or fed up with the lies and hypocrisy of the whole thing. I'm sure he will play the latter card and try to make out that he's the hero. Problem is that he signed a confidentiality contract and broke it. They will nail him to the wall for this. He embarrassed America and I doubt they will easily forgive that.

The most shocking thing for me in all this was the people found it hard to believe this was going on in the first place.

 

[Hawkwind]

Do you throw your toys out of the pram on day 1? Did you watch the full video with him?

He spent the last 3 months in Hawaii, earning "tons" of money in paradise, yet he chose to bring that to an end...

So you know everything then, end of...

 

[rynnor]

The most shocking thing for me in all this was the people found it hard to believe this was going on in the first place.

There's a huge difference from suspecting to having proof though - previously this was all shrugged off by the Govt and the ISPs officially.

 

[Scouse]

So you know everything then, end of...

No, of course not. But I could say the same for you making the judgement that he'd "been working on these things for years before his conscience got pricked".

Nice to see you attacking the man, rather than what he exposed.

Problem is that he signed a confidentiality contract and broke it.

When you're told to keep murder a secret because it's in your contract, would you?

I mean, that happens all the time in the armed forces, but when you're a windoze techie working for a government contractor why would you keep a massive abuse of power by a government secret.

Whistleblowers perform an important function. Saying "mwah - it's against THE LAW" completely misses the point.

 

[Gwadien]

my PC just memory dumped whilst watching that

*tin foil hat*

 

[TdC]

The most shocking thing for me in all this was the people found it hard to believe this was going on in the first place.

call me naive but I prefer to think humans are nice people who will help each other out rather than a bunch of back-stabbing two-faced cunts. perhaps only governments or countries really get to take the latter to the next level though

 

[Hawkwind]

No, of course not. But I could say the same for you making the judgement that he'd "been working on these things for years before his conscience got pricked".

Nice to see you attacking the man, rather than what he exposed.

Pretty much what you did also with the teddy out of cot comment then. It pissed me off a bit.

 

[rynnor]

Problem is that he signed a confidentiality contract and broke it. They will nail him to the wall for this. He embarrassed America and I doubt they will easily forgive that.

Whistleblowers should be protected - confidentiality agreements go against the first amendment anyway so should be illegal if the US Govt hadn't picked away at it for years.

 

[Hawkwind]

call me naive but I prefer to think humans are nice people who will help each other out rather than a bunch of back-stabbing two-faced cunts. perhaps only governments or countries really get to take the latter to the next level though

I've been involved in setting up several Lawful intercept systems around the world and unfortunately I'm not shocked by what the various NSA/FBI type agencies want.

 

[TdC]

Whistleblowers should be protected - confidentiality agreements go against the first amendment anyway so should be illegal if the US Govt hadn't picked away at it for years.

agree. imo ultimately whistleblowers are a good thing. I'm not saying they're saints, but I think they're good for keeping shit human.

I've been involved in setting up several Lawful intercept systems around the world and unfortunately I'm not shocked by what the various NSA/FBI type agencies want.

yeah I hear you. thing is, I personally don't think what they want is well and good. you know, the old "these are our principals, and if you don't like them...well, we have others." thing.

 

[Hawkwind]

agree. imo ultimately whistleblowers are a good thing. I'm not saying they're saints, but I think they're good for keeping shit human.


yeah I hear you. thing is, I personally don't think what they want is well and good. you know, the old "these are our principals, and if you don't like them...well, we have others." thing.

Well don't use the use internet in US, India, Russia, China and Australia. 3 of those require your ISP to basically record everything you do and send them a copy if asked to do so.

 

[Scouse]

Pretty much what you did also with the teddy out of cot comment then. It pissed me off a bit.

The teddy out the pram comment was a reference to him, not you m8 (Presuming I'm understanding you correctly)

I meant - you've got to be in your job a while before it gets to you, surely. You'd wrestle with your conscience, have sleepless nights, feel the terror etc. before deciding to pretty much end your life at the hands of the US government.

What I find scariest about this is that both republicans and democrats have come out and denounced him as a traitor and a defector.

All it shows is that all levels of government are equally corrupt and self serving. - Pretty much what the tin-foil-hatter's have been saying for years.

 

[Aoami]

call me naive but I prefer to think humans are nice people who will help each other out rather than a bunch of back-stabbing two-faced cunts. perhaps only governments or countries really get to take the latter to the next level though

For me, it is I think growing up in the internet age. We got our first computer with a 14.4k modem in 1994, when i was 7 years old, so i've basically been on the internet my entire life. I've always just assumed that what i'm doing is being watched to a degree, and that filters into other aspects of life as well.

 

[BloodOmen]

Need more people like him in the world exposing the worlds dirty secrets.

 

[Chilly]

What I find scariest about this is that both republicans and democrats have come out and denounced him as a traitor and a defector.

All it shows is that all levels of government are equally corrupt and self serving. - Pretty much what the tin-foil-hatter's have been saying for years.

I don't understand why that's scary? It's all perfectly legal. Laws passed by those some congress(wo)men and senators. They have a *duty* to condemn such acts. He is a traitor, by definition. He has, almost certainly, harmed the US national security because certain people who may not have realised they could be under surveillance may now change their behaviour to be more covert. The problem, and the scary bit, are the laws themselves and the society that lets them pass.

 

[Chilly]

Need more people like him in the world exposing the worlds dirty secrets.

It was never a secret! It's like a mother discovering her kid wanking. It obviously happens and is part of life, but no one wants to *see* it. We all just conveniently ignore it and live in denial. Have you honestly not thought/realised that all unencrypted communications (and a lot of encrypted comms) have been monitor-able for a long long time? GCHQ sit on a bit stream of a significant proportion of all UK internet traffic. They may not datamine it, but it's there.

 

[BloodOmen]

It was never a secret! It's like a mother discovering her kid wanking. It obviously happens and is part of life, but no one wants to *see* it. We all just conveniently ignore it and live in denial. Have you honestly not thought/realised that all unencrypted communications (and a lot of encrypted comms) have been monitor-able for a long long time? GCHQ sit on a bit stream of a significant proportion of all UK internet traffic. They may not datamine it, but it's there.

I wasn't referring to a specific event I was simply saying the world needs more whistle blowers.

 

[Scouse]

I don't understand why that's scary? It's all perfectly legal. Laws passed by those some congress(wo)men and senators. They have a *duty* to condemn such acts. He is a traitor, by definition. He has, almost certainly, harmed the US national security because certain people who may not have realised they could be under surveillance may now change their behaviour to be more covert. The problem, and the scary bit, are the laws themselves and the society that lets them pass.

It's scary because the politicians are failing spectacularly to perform their primary job - safeguarding the liberty and freedom of the US population - including from an errant government.

They should be standing tall with this David who's trying to take on the Goliath.

He has...harmed the US national security

No. The surveillance program harms US national security.

He's protecting US national security by exposing dangerous government.


I hope this plays into the hands of the pro-gun lobbyists. It's exactly the reason why the constitution has a right to bear arms. The US goes too far down the path they've chosen and the public revolt - and have the ability to revolt in a meaningful fashion - because they've got the guns to throw out the government.

 

[Chilly]

What, really, is there to blow the whistle on?

We know governments bribe/extort for domestic commercial gain.
We know governments torture foreign prisons for intel.
We know oil companies do not give one single fuck about ruining large swathes of the world so we can drive around all happy.
We know a thousand of these things.

The problem is that we all implicitly agree with the system by taking part it in. Every time you buy an iPhone (or any expensive gadget) you condone child labour. You implicitly agree to be monitored every day via location and so on (apple collect all this and you agree to it in any T&Cs). The problem is that we all vote red or blue anyway and APPROVE the next five years of this behaviour. Obviously not everyone does vote red or blue here and I'm not accusing anyone in particular of not taking appropriate personal action. I voted tory last election, so I can't in any good conscience complain about any of this shit. If I had voted green or possibly lib dem I might be able to take a stronger stand without sounding like an utter cunt.