Edward Snowden....what do you think?

[rynnor]

They threatened Ecuador with revoking a preferential trade agreement and Ecuador said "fuck you" to the US - at least publically.

I'm afraid you are out of date - they caved last night - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-in-refusing-requests-for-asylum-8682610.html

I just wondered why.

 

[Scouse]

I just wondered why.

Probably because despite Obama saying he would leave it to administrators to retrieve Mr Snowden, and not use political weapons, it seems that the US is threatening any country with what effectively amounts to economic sanctions if they don't comply with their request.

By request I mean:

 

[Scouse]

Oh, and according to Ed's dad, he'd be amenable to coming back to the US as long as the US Government gives cast-iron guarantees that his constitutional rights be upheld (which should be a given), that he gets to be tried in a normal court (which should be a given) and he gets to choose the state that he gets prosecuted in (which, frankly, if the US has a case against him, shouldn't be a problem).

Funny that the US won't come out publicly and say they'll try him under their own laws in a normal court eh?


/secretnazicourts ON

 

[megadave]

That'd never happen in a million years and everyone knows it.

Makes me kind of sick how nobody seemingly cares how badly governments infringe our rights.

 

[Raven]

The only way it would happen is if revolution in the west happened. Other than that, the governments couldn't give a tuppeny fuck what people think. It doesn't matter who you vote for, they are all exactly the same. They don't even care if you don't vote. Cunts will still be in charge.

It isn't even about money any more, its about control.

Having said that, I still feel pretty free to do whatever I like. I don't like being snooped on, even though I have nothing in particular to hide but other than that I am OK.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Oh, and according to Ed's dad, he'd be amenable to coming back to the US as long as the US Government gives cast-iron guarantees that his constitutional rights be upheld (which should be a given), that he gets to be tried in a normal court (which should be a given) and he gets to choose the state that he gets prosecuted in (which, frankly, if the US has a case against him, shouldn't be a problem).

Yes to the rights and courts, indeed given. No to him choosing the state.
Two reasons: imagine the US with different laws per state deciding where to send someone to get the max penalty (it could work both ways) second he could choose the state with the least penalty for the "crime".
It should be done where he leaked the information.

 

[Scouse]

It should be done where he leaked the information.

Hawaii.

 

[Scouse]

UK.Gov uses a program called "spotter" - which is used to spot sarcasm.

Quite clearly they use it to trawl through publicly available posts and use spotter to rule out the "sarcastic" ones - like "I'll bomb parliament - honest!" - so they can keep tabs on people who would publicly write such stuff in a non-sarcastic manner.

People like me

Here's hoping some cunt blows himself and the shower of shit in parliament up. Preferably when old Tony was visiting.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Yes and there he should be tried.
But I still don't get why he didn't do like "Deep Throat", better way to keep an eye out.
It is not that anything will change.

 

[Gwadien]

UK.Gov uses a program called "spotter" - which is used to spot sarcasm.

Quite clearly they use it to trawl through publicly available posts and use spotter to rule out the "sarcastic" ones - like "I'll bomb parliament - honest!" - so they can keep tabs on people who would publicly write such stuff in a non-sarcastic manner.

People like me

Here's hoping some cunt blows himself and the shower of shit in parliament up. Preferably when old Tony was visiting.

I'd rather them keep track on the nutters who want to blow shit up than thousands of people dying to something that was preventable.

 

[megadave]

He should only get tried if the people who broke the laws by setting up/running/lying about the NSA get tried too, fair's fair.

 

[Gwadien]

It's like one of the hardest moral questions going;

Do you give the people absolute freedom and only stop people at the point where they're about to pull the trigger, more or less survival of the fittest...

Or do you keep track of peoples information and throw out the 'bullshit' and actually prevent attacks from happening?

He should only get tried if the people who broke the laws by setting up/running/lying about the NSA get tried too, fair's fair.

I think most rational people were fully aware that Governments tracked peoples conversations and such, hence why there isn't a massive hoo-haa about it now, and honestly, I don't think it's down to fear, I think it's because there's no other rational alternative, you keep seeing all these terrorism attacks that have been prevented, and how many of them because of this? *scouseytinfoilhat* how many of them weren't actually terrorist attacks and made up by the Governments to defend such groups?

End of the day, if you're using a computer -anyone- can hack into it, and get hold of your information.

 

[megadave]

How about instead of invading the privacy of a billion people to stop a handful, you follow the law and follow due process? If i'm suspected of wrong doing then go ahead, get a warrant and spy on me.

Everyone suspected the government of it but knowing for a fact it's true and the levels to which they do it is scary. Also there hasn't been a single bit of evidence shown anywhere that PRISM has prevented any terrorist attacks, they sure did a great job in Boston.

We're becoming more and more of a police state, giving up more rights and the government gaining more power with fewer checks and balances. Things are only going to get worse until a point where we're all fucked, stop being so naive.

 

[Gwadien]

So who of you who are so anti it have done anything about it?

Thought so

 

[DaGaffer]

So who of you who are so anti it have done anything about it?

Thought so

Like what exactly? First of all the main issue with the Snowden revelations is about the NSA spying on American citizens (and lying about it), so since we're not Americans, we can't complain at the ballot box (nor can any Americans, yet, since they've only just found out). Second of all, the issue of the NSA spying on us non-Americans is also a bit of a problem because...its America, who can say a giant "fuck you" to everyone in the world and there's jack we can do about it. Finally, if you're British, well, we voted out one lot at least partly because we didn't like the idea of state spying (ID cards), only to be replaced by another lot who are exactly the same in that regard as it turns out.

 

[Scouse]

It's like one of the hardest moral questions going

No it isn't - it's an easy one that has already been answered a long long time ago.

We've had our answer codified in Human Rights law since the 1950's (that our neo-facist government is trying to weasel itself out of) and the Americans have their answer codified in the constitution.

Blanket government surveillance will not only always be abused, but is in and of itself a form of abuse.


"We the people" grant government it's powers, the government do not grant us our rights.


Edit: These currently in-vogue moves to disabuse us of our basic rights and freedoms should be the single most scary thing mankind faces - not terrorism, which kills a tiny amount of people.

 

[Scouse]

So who of you who are so anti it have done anything about it?

What should we do? Should we blow ourselves up near politicians?

 

[Chilly]

What should we do? Should we blow ourselves up near politicians?

Write to your MP. Seriously. Get on to theyworkforyou.com and write. If half the population does it parliament is effectively forced to act.

 

[Gwadien]

My local MP is Keith Vaz though :\

 

[Scouse]

Write to your MP. Seriously. Get on to theyworkforyou.com and write. If half the population does it parliament is effectively forced to act.

That's like saying "write to the criminals who are spying on you illegally and ask them to stop"...

 

[Gwadien]

That's like saying "write to the criminals who are spying on you illegally and ask them to stop"...

This is my point though, you lot bitch and moan about stuff but no-one ever does anything, when anyone tries to do anything against the evil Governments people laugh and ridicule them, such as the Occupy movements.

 

[Scouse]

This is my point though, you lot bitch and moan about stuff but no-one ever does anything

That's twice you've made that point now. So I'll ask again - what would you do? What can be done?

If the people who's job is to protect you are the ones who are abusing you, what effective recourse do you have other than one of violence?


I was in full support of the occupy movement btw.

 

[Gwadien]

That's twice you've made that point now. So I'll ask again - what would you do? What can be done?

If the people who's job is to protect you are the ones who are abusing you, what effective recourse do you have other than one of violence?


I was in full support of the occupy movement btw.

I'm not doing anything about it, because it doesn't bother me, because I am fully aware anyone is going to look at what you're doing online, as you said before, the people give the Governments power, so therefore what reason would they have to look at all your dirty laundry?

I genuinely think people are tin-foiling the situation a bit, if people WERE that bothered about it, and sit there saying 'Oh yeah, the Governments defo restricting our rights and making more of a police state, over time, it will happen.' If it's gonna happen, why are people doing -nothing- about it? Why not rise up for what you believe in?

 

[Scouse]

Why not rise up for what you believe in?

You're missing the point Gwad. What CAN be done?

Examples please. Not that you would do. But what can a population do with a corrupt government that's non-violent?


Do you see the point?

 

[rynnor]

You're missing the point Gwad. What CAN be done?

Examples please. Not that you would do. But what can a population do with a corrupt government that's non-violent?

Do you see the point?

Vote UKIP - at the least it will shock the establishment.

 

[Scouse]

Vote UKIP - at the least it will shock the establishment.

Apart from some idiotic policies - what makes you think that a far-right isolationist group would be any different?

 

[Gwadien]

You're missing the point Gwad. What CAN be done?

Examples please. Not that you would do. But what can a population do with a corrupt government that's non-violent?


Do you see the point?

Something can always be done if you believe in it enough, or do we just have to accept it keel over?

 

[caLLous]

UK.Gov uses a program called "spotter" - which is used to spot sarcasm.

Quite clearly they use it to trawl through publicly available posts and use spotter to rule out the "sarcastic" ones - like "I'll bomb parliament - honest!" - so they can keep tabs on people who would publicly write such stuff in a non-sarcastic manner.

People like me

Here's hoping some cunt blows himself and the shower of shit in parliament up. Preferably when old Tony was visiting.

Apparently they weren't using that when that baggage handler said he was going to blow up Robin Hood Airport last year.

 

[Raven]

Write to your MP. Seriously. Get on to theyworkforyou.com and write. If half the population does it parliament is effectively forced to act.

You actually think MPs care what people think?

 

[Chilly]

You actually think MPs care what people think?

Yes, on the whole. I also think that if they come under enough pressure from the public at large and the press they will be forced to act. Individually MPs are just normal people, but it's the system they operate in that leads to corruption and poor democratic performance.