Politics Ed Miliband

[Ch3tan]

ECA i suggest you go to some of the areas that were once thriving mining or industry based areas and talk to the people, famines were destroyed.

And the idea that the Tories are going to save money by making people unemployed is frankly lunacy.

And actually, why the hell is this comment relevant in anyway to what ECA said? He did not really even mention the tories, simply answer tierks points about his own views on lib dem policies and why he thought labour had failed to deliver.

So either you just assumed ECA was a tory voter or you are another labour troll.

 

[kiliarien]

Can I ask why you pulled up this shitty chart ECA? I assume it's a joke, but it's not funny, I don't want to be compared to any other country. Do you work in the education sector? I do and actually we HAVE got better, both in teaching and learning and skills levels. Forget the shitty Labour targets, it's happened through their funding rather than their aims. The Conservative aims? Well we'll see how many they get past the LD's.

Take into account you have used the terms:

'brainwashed delusional fools'
'stupid brainwashing and lack of understanding'
'Are you eff retarded?'

I admire your zeal, but tone it down a bit.

A coalition government of any sort brings change - those in mainland europe are used to it, but we aren't, so change is definitely on the cards. I'm moving to Wales soon, so fook this, Assembly ftw!

 

[Jeros]

Don't worry, England will hopefully be free of your crazy devolved parliaments influence soon. And you can go back to SNP vs Labour, socialists only club. Let's see how long it is before Scotland goes bankrupt without England propping it up?

As for saving money by making people unemployed, way to go with believing the Labour spin machine. Making public sector more efficient and less wasteful does not = job cuts, it can involve job cuts, but it is not only job cuts as every scaremongering campaign would have you believe.

Also, the majority of England did vote for a Tory government, so that would involve a lot of those areas where industry was decimated in the 80's. No one has denied that lots of families suffered during the 80's, however the blinkered view that the UK could have continued it's industries without massive government subsidies is ludicrous and blinkered.

A few points:

ECA seemed to be defending the Tories and i THOUGHT he stated that he voted for them, cant find my glasses so tend to skim read.

I am English, just Edinburgh is my LOCATION as I study at the university

I AM a socialist

We NEED to have industry, hell coal is going to the the final remaining resource long after oil and gas are gone.

And if you really think that the Tories care about the working class I suggest you look into some of the people in the party, not that I would support them what ever class i was.

Oh well who cares im skipping this country as soon as i get this degree, im sure as hell not raising my kids in a country with such social and economic decay and the only realistic voting choices are:

1: Handout state that is happy to support tons of unemployed people without attacking the route causes of the unemployment.

or

2: Right wing upper class toffs with little no care of the working class who are the lifeblood of any country.


I do kinda feel sorry for labour in a way though with the nanny state thing.

EG:

Daily mail one week: "Dangerous bollards kill thousands per year!, read shelli's (groan) tragic story inside! and sign our petition to get them banned"

Daily mail next week: "Nanny state bans "dangerous" bollards! has the world gone mad?"

 

[Ch3tan]

Media bullshit aside, some of the changes in law bought in under labour are just ridiculous. They have encouraged a big brother environment, where your neighbour is encouraged to report you and the council checks your rubbish.

As for points 1 and 2 above. Point 1 has been proven over the last 13 years, it's only when we got near the election that Brown's government started talking about changes to the benefits system and they way they tackle unemployment.

Point 2 is based on historical views of the tories, you should reserve judgement off this government until you can comment on the things that have done.

We do need industry, but we need industry that works. The problem with the labour and the tory governments of the 70's and 80's was that they went from one extreme to the other. If we hadn't moved to a service based economy in the 80's though, we would have been in a far worse state in the 90's.

 

[tierk]

Ah yes you are one of those brainwashed delusional fools as your reply indicates.

So clearly if someone disagrees with anything I /you say they must be a brainwashed delusional fool? OooOooooo K then.

I'm well aware of the contents of the manifesto from the party I voted for thanks though.

Must feel just wonderful to vote for a party that has campaigned on a whole series of issues and then basically sold out or will sell out on basically every single one of those issues just to get themselves into power.

Labour got a lower share of the vote in 2005 than the conservatives got in 2010 and yet you're saying people clearly wanted them? Maybe you'd like to look at historical records and see just how rigged the FPTP system is in Labour's favour before claiming that the election results are representative of the will of the people.

TBH the 2005 election was for me a time I voted LIB DEM because of my complete disagreement with the decision to invade Iraq. It also showed /shows in graphic terms exactly what is wrong with our electoral system. Also keep in mind that yes they only had 35% of the national vote, however, people voting for centre left parties (this includes LibDems) was at 57%.

Regards to FPTP being biased towards Labour, it's not something that they have created or made in their favour as the decisions for the boundaries are taken by the Boundary Commission.

Sorry just threw up in my mouth a little.

Just wondering how much throwing up you going to be doing by the end this first parliament - if it gets to its full five years - as I don't see LibDems keeping a single one of its promises in its election manifesto.

They kept their promise on no fees for universities?

Let's see if the Libdems can even manage to fulfill one of their manifesto promises shall we?

They sure did a great job expanding the national rail service...ohwaiiiiit......

Oh yes another wonderful Conservative sell off and such a huge success btw just like all the other ones have been. This is what the Conservatives had to say on their own privatization ...

We think, with hindsight, that the complete separation of track and train into separate businesses at the time of privatization was not right for our railways. We think that the separation has helped push up the cost of running the railways - and hence fares - and is now slowing decisions about capacity improvements. Too many people and organizations are now involved in getting things done - so nothing happens. As a result, the industry lacks clarity about who is in charge and accountable for decisions.

And the reason it was not taken back into public care? Too expensive to buy it back again from its shareholders.

NHS spending has increased substantially with little real gain, education spending has doubled under labour with no improvement in results

Sorry but you are wrong. The facts speak for themselves.

As for this little gem..

Would be helpful if, when you posting about a subject, to post stuff that is relevant. What does that graph exactly? It's certainly not anything to do with the UK. The web site you have also chosen to quote from is not even anything remotely to do with the UK.

Economies take years to turn - the growth record Gordon Brown used to love to claim of xxxmonths of growth actually started under the Conservative government of John Major and basically labour did nothing significantly different from that administration on the economy - they did fuck it up by increasing spending and while the GDP and the economy was growing - whether you want to give credit to any party - labour borrowed money and put us in debt.

As you state - the economy grew consistently between 1997-2007 - no disagreements?

So why in 2007 were we in debt to the tune of £34 billion - when they came to power they inherited a surplus and no debt. The awesome economic prowess of the Tin plated chancellor and their stupid spending policies that's why.

LOL so 13 years of growth under Labour is all down to John Major??? OooOook mate sure.

Crime rates tend to fall in good economic times - so quite how you link a proven statistical fact with a political party is quite insane and intellectually shallow.

Taking that highly intelligent analysis then we can assume that we have never had any good economic times while under Conservative rule?

tierk, how much time do you actually spend in England each year? Claiming we have good public services, or that the NHS has improved or that education has improved is a joke. The reality is very different from your pie in the sky belief.

I have not spent a lot of time in England since 2005 when I moved to Qatar, however, most of my family still live in England. Only me and one brother living /working in Qatar. Just to clarify the situation for you regarding my views on things like the NHS and schools etc.

My mother had her kidney removed - due to cancer - in 1996 and guess what? She had to travel outside the UK to get diagnosed because the waiting list for her to see a kidney specialist was over 10 months.

Thankfully we could afford to send her to a private doctor to get the checkups she needed and the kidney was removed in time. If she had to wait the 10 months extra for the tests (Biopsy)God knows if she would be alive today.

Regarding the schools, I was in school in London under Conservative governments - at a state school - thank God for only a year and what a wonderful experience that was. I also remember when my brothers kids starting school in London in the early 90's and now the latest set of my other brothers children going to school. Believe it or not families talk and compare and discuss things like schools and hospitals and how if when things got better worse. Oh and in case you wondering yes I see my family on a regular basis, as I fly them out to see me every Christmas and Easter and try to visit every summer if I can.

Actually it's 41.664% of the UK.

65.1% turnout * 64% non-Conservative = 41.664%
65.1% * 36% Conservative = 23.436%

So not quite quarter of the eligible population boted Conservative.
Just over 4 out of 10 people voted for someone else.
7 out of 20 didn't bother at all.

</statistics>

Sorry I should have been clearer, 64% of the people that voted.

As for saving money by making people unemployed, way to go with believing the Labour spin machine. Making public sector more efficient and less wasteful does not = job cuts, it can involve job cuts, but it is not only job cuts as every scaremongering campaign would have you believe.

Let's wait and see just how much savings they going to be able to make and just how many people are going to get made redundant. The proof is in the pudding and we have not even started to eat it yet.

 

[Corran]

I worked in the government sectors (DWP and councils). I can tell you now, too many mangers and not enough staff.
I also have family and friends working in the NHS ... they are even worse then the other 2 combined in regards to the number of manager types they employ.

Labour have pushed too much on "figure reading" and so managers are employed to try make the departments looks good and/or misrepresent the figures. And schooling, it all aimed at testing and very little at learning now days... may get better results but you dont have as much all round knowledge as you would in the past.

Savings and improvements to service can easily be made reducing the number of management in government places, you dont need 1 manager for every 10 staff (as it apparently is in some parts of the nhs). Could management down, get more normal staff where needed, and it a miracle, you saved money as you not paying a dozen managers to do what 3 can do whilst you getting more staff to actually carry out services.

This country is pretty screwed in voting because the 2 big parties are at either end of the scale and no one is willing to risk being a middle and sensible guy because there too many people in the country that go one way or the other as they aint sensible themself!

 

[Zede]

Hi, brainwashed delusional fool here.

What an arrogant git you are ECA. Are trying to be a tory stereotype or ?

 

[Kagato]

Hi, brainwashed delusional fool here.

What an arrogant git you are ECA. Are trying to be a tory stereotype or ?

What an enlightened and constructive argument you present there, you do your primary school teacher really proud.

Do keep on embarrassing yourself, it makes us feel so much better about ourselves.

 

[Lethul]

What an enlightened and constructive argument you present there, you do your primary school teacher really proud.

Do keep on embarrassing yourself, it makes us feel so much better about ourselves.

Doesn't Zede do that every time he enters a political discussion tho?

 

[tierk]

Doesn't Zede do that every time he enters a political discussion tho?

Its not like ECA said anything in this thread to justify that type of response from anyone right?

 

[Raven]

I think a few of the die hard Labour supporters will be in for a few surprises over the next few weeks with some interesting spending coming to light.

 

[Wij]

I'm still completely bemused by this %age of people who 'voted for centre-left parties'. It's a completely cock argument.

You could just as easily come up with a much bigger percentage who voted for less Big Brother, less centralisation and/or less Gordon Brown.

Left/Right is only one issue. There's also the libertarian / authoritarian angle where Tories and Lib Dem are much closer to each other then Labour. There's also the 'things aren't working, for fuck's sake let's try something else !!!' angle.

To assume, based purely on the basis of votes for parties, that everyone's agenda for voting is left/right is both presumptious and either naive or duplicitous. Another classic peice of Alastair Campbell spin swallowed whole and spewed back out whenever anyone threatens to have a rational argument about the facts. Next person to try that argument has lost at the internet.

 

[MYstIC G]

*fap*

 

[Wij]

and here we go...

BBC News - Full text: Clegg reform speech

Who's the progressive coalition now ?

 

[Ch3tan]

Fuck you Wij, I just made another thread while you posted this

 

[Wij]

lollerskates

Top civil servants made formal protests over Labour spending | Politics | The Guardian

The former chancellor Alistair Darling said: "Every new government tries blaming the last one."

Yes - the coalition has been in power for a week but they STILL insist on blaming Labour for the economic state of the country.

Move on. Show some ownership !!!1


My unintened-irony-bone has just snapped.

 

[Ch3tan]

LOL. That is pretty damning.

 

[Zede]

What an enlightened and constructive argument you present there, you do your primary school teacher really proud.

Do keep on embarrassing yourself, it makes us feel so much better about ourselves.

You & your kind are epitome of everything i despise about well, being human.

The selfish gene is alive and kicking.

Right wing scum.

 

[Zede]

I don't know if he even knows the meaning of right and left wing. Politically he is very naive.

once you attempted to rubbish me on daoc rvr forums & got totally owned. if you wish to repeat the experience, come on our vent.

cock.

 

[Raven]

lol, please do try. You have the debating skills of a fruit basket.

 

[Zede]

lol, please do try. You have the debating skills of a fruit basket.

once you realise its utterly usless to change of the mind of any tory scum, its easier just to insult, really brick walls & heads have better results. if you wish to delude yourself into a false sense of superiority, go ahead big boy.

oh i feel like bumping that thread now....need a lol.

 

[Raven]

You're just pissy that you backed the wrong horse. I know its hard to admit that you are wrong but now you are seeing the Tories are the right thing for the country, its fine to change sides.

Welcome our fair government and support them as they clean the stain left by Labour.

 

[Corran]

once you realise its utterly usless to change of the mind of any tory scum, its easier just to insult, really brick walls & heads have better results. if you wish to delude yourself into a false sense of superiority, go ahead big boy.

oh i feel like bumping that thread now....need a lol.

Zede, you seem to have an attitude problem that is as bad as labours governing of this country!

Onto normal unsarky comment.
Zede. You try to come across as knowing better etc, but it people like you that make labour voters look bad. You dont seem to realise that though labour may have done some good things they have made alot of poor decisions with the countries finances as is coming to light.

I used to understand labours point of view (didnt always agree) but i think it is clear that this new coalition is probably the best thing for the country.
This aint about left or right. It is about the country and what is best for it as a whole, not just for those on low income and benefits whom labour were so focused on!

...
And now the conspiracy theory!!!
Maybe labour purposely drove the country into recession. They wanted more unemployed people in order to try tempt into voting for them

 

[cHodAX]

I look forward to revisiting this thread in 5 years time, that is if the lights haven't gone out and Britain is a 3rd world country. As likely to happen under Labour though I must admit.

 

[Ch3tan]

I look forward to revisiting this thread in 5 years time, that is if the lights haven't gone out and Britain is a 3rd world country. As likely to happen under Labour though I must admit.

It would have happened faster under Labour

Zede, if you aren't going to do anything but insult, then don't be surprised when no one treats you with any respect what so ever. But seeing as you are nothing other than an immature net troll, I doubt you care.

 

[Corran]

I look forward to revisiting this thread in 5 years time, that is if the lights haven't gone out and Britain is a 3rd world country. As likely to happen under Labour though I must admit.

Unfortunately I think this country is screwed at the moment. Wouldnt matter what government is in charge it too late to fix alot of the issues
[SPECIAL][/SPECIAL]

 

[Zede]

It would have happened faster under Labour

Zede, if you aren't going to do anything but insult, then don't be surprised when no one treats you with any respect what so ever. But seeing as you are nothing other than an immature net troll, I doubt you care.

only from right wing scum, and thats the point kido

right wing arrogance extreme, i lovz it !

 

[Ch3tan]

What is the point?

Let's have a straw poll. Speak up if you anyone in this or the other politics threads has respect for or cares for anything zede contributes?

 

[Corran]

What is the point?

Let's have a straw poll. Speak up if you anyone in this or the other politics threads has respect for or cares for anything zede contributes?

I care about what Zede says!

Because it is fucking hilarious

 

[Lamp]

lol, please do try. You have the debating skills of a fruit basket.

lmao.