Politics Ed Miliband

[Ch3tan]

Utter rubbish? I think I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, I lived through the entire reign of Maggie and Major, all I saw was desvastation of working class towns and manufacturing in this country all to make city fat cats richer.

Your opinion differs, that is fine, let us just wait and see how it goes but I honestly fear the worst and having been massively affected by the previous Conservative governments (much more so than the shit Labour governments of the last 13 years) I do not hold out any hope at all.

What pains me most is that the Liberal Democrats have sold out on thier beliefs in exchange for a bigger share of the pie at the next election and 5 years of holding the Tories to ransom. Shame on you Nick Clegg.

Comparing this tory government to one of 20 years ago, made up of different people is what I find shit, it's a different era, with different problems. The tories of the 80's had to deal with the problems of the time (caused by labour and the unions), are we all going to bang on about the 70's next time labour come into power?

Judge them on the policies they have this time, not the past. Historic voting is bad.

 

[cHodAX]

Judge them on the policies they have this time, not the past. Historic voting is bad.

What you mean slashing public spending at the worst possible time? Government spending is what drives an economy out of recession, the Tories are going to do the opposite by making 100,000's of public servants unemployed to make those cost savings. What they won't admit is those job losses have a massive knockon effect to the rest of the economy, the housing market slows further and retail takes a massive hit. Alot of those jobs did need to go, government was employing too many people but doing it now or in the next couple of years is an epic mistake.

Job cuts at this time risk a double dip recession from which we may never recover, Labour might be fucktards but thier plans to slowly bring us out of recession were based on sound logic and not sound bites designed to bribe voters which is what much of the Conservative manifesto was written to do. Smoke and mirrors, mark my words.

 

[Ch3tan]

You can't keep public spending at the level it was and keep increasing the debt, it will be even worse when we have to start paying it back - we'd get a double dip recession anyway.

 

[Calaen]

George Osbourne in control of finance fucking lol, I wouldn't send him to the shop with a pound.

I can't wait to hear how it's all Labours fault for the next few months while he fucks it up. This coalition won't last at all. Biggest losers in this are the Lib dems, the big parties won't give them a fairer voting system because they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[cHodAX]

You can't keep public spending at the level it was and keep increasing the debt, it will be even worse when we have to start paying it back - we'd get a double dip recession anyway.

No no no. Wrong. History shows quite clearly, government spending drives economies out of recession. Cutting public sector spending means job losses which effects every area of the economy. You do not cut spending at this stage of a recession, it is bad economics. Certainly not via job cuts anyway. Cancel the I.D. card program to save money? Hell yes, overpriced and not needed but making cuts right through the civil service and other public sector areas is a fundamental mistake that is going to cost us all if the market starts to get shakey again.

The national debt is insane anyway, another 2 years of slightly lower borrowing will make jack shit difference to that but will stall the economy and make this recession last longer, possibly deeper and at risk of a double dip.

 

[Raven]

To pay for this spending Labour proposed to increase NI which would hit both the employer and the employee, the employer would have less money to spend and the employee would have less money to spend. Less money would circulate in the economy, less tax would be generated.

Also, its not just staff cuts in the public sector, its overall spending. The amount of money simply pissed up the wall to ensure they keep their budget is staggering. The vast majority of public sector companies waste money and need to be run in the same way a private company is. It needs to make sure it provides value for money.

 

[cHodAX]

To pay for this spending Labour proposed to increase NI which would hit both the employer and the employee, the employer would have less money to spend and the employee would have less money to spend. Less money would circulate in the economy, less tax would be generated.

Also, its not just staff cuts in the public sector, its overall spending. The amount of money simply pissed up the wall to ensure they keep their budget is staggering. The vast majority of public sector companies waste money and need to be run in the same way a private company is. It needs to make sure it provides value for money.

The N.I. rise was stupid, don't get me wrong I am not saying Labour had it all figured out either. I look at it this way, £170 billion borrowed without the N.I. rise or £164 billion borrowing with the rise. I won't make much difference in the long run to the national debt levels but it might stall what is at best a weak recovery.

They should forget any spending cuts for 2 years but also forget any taxation increases too. Let the economy recover and then implement the changes when the economy can take the hit without crumbling.

 

[Ch3tan]

Clegg has been confirmed as deputy PM, quite a few details coming about about the concessions made to make the coalition work.

 

[cHodAX]

Clegg has been confirmed as deputy PM, quite a few details coming about about the concessions made to make the coalition work.

He sold out, the Tory spending plans are totally incompatible with Liberal spending plans, I don't see how they can meet in the middle ground and make it effective policy. Have a look through both manifesto's, honestly it is like night and day, someone is going to have to bend over and take it to make this work. To me it looks like Clegg is wearing the lipstick and dress.

 

[Ch3tan]

1. 2336: Lib Dem Danny Alexander is to become Scottish secretary, the BBC learns. The Lib Dems are expected to get about 20 government jobs in total.
   
   
2. 2332: The Lib Dems have agreed to a cap on immigration and a commitment not to join the euro for the lifetime of the parliament.
   
   
3. 2323: Details of the Tory-Lib Dem deal emerge. The Lib Dems have agreed to drop plans for a "mansion tax", while the Conservatives have ditched their pledge to raise the inheritance tax threshold to £1m. The new administration will scrap Labour's planned rise in National Insurance but some of the benefits will go to reducing income tax thresholds for lower earners.
   
   
4. 2317: Conservative Andrew Lansley will become health secretary, the BBC learns. There is still no confirmation of who will be home secretary.
   
   
5. 2313: A Downing Street spokesman says: "Her Majesty The Queen has been pleased to approve the appointment of Nick Clegg as deputy prime minister. It has been agreed that five cabinet posts will be filled by Liberal Democrats, including the appointment of Nick Clegg."
   
   

Sounds like they are going to have to write a new manifesto.

If they can run a strong government, that actually serves the people and improves the key issues in the country, the economy, benefits culture and the immigration issue, then does it matter?

 

[cHodAX]

It is a compromise goverment, you can't plan policy ad-hoc just to keep your 'partner' happy, it has to be a coherent overall plan or it just won't work. This is why coalition governments all over the world fail on a daily basis.

 

[Raven]

I think it could work out quite well actually. If they can get on we will hopefully see some pretty balanced, fair policies. I really want them to confirm they are ditching the ID card scheme and restricting the DNA database. I also want to see an end to the surveillance of the innocent public which has exploded under Labour.

 

[megadave]

fucking glad i didnt vote lib dem now

 

[cHodAX]

I think it could work out quite well actually. If they can get on we will hopefully see some pretty balanced, fair policies. I really want them to confirm they are ditching the ID card scheme and restricting the DNA database. I also want to see an end to the surveillance of the innocent public which has exploded under Labour.

Believe me, I would like to see it work out and the country to recover, I can't see it happening but I do want it to happen regardless of who does it.

If there was one thing I would cut it is the Trident replacement program, £100 billion for a handful of submarine based nukes is a national disgrace. Just having mobile land launchers would cut those costs by 75% I reckon.

 

[Ch3tan]

It is a compromise goverment, you can't plan policy ad-hoc just to keep your 'partner' happy, it has to be a coherent overall plan or it just won't work. This is why coalition governments all over the world fail on a daily basis.

At a local government level, coalition governments work just fine. In other countries, they work well just as much as they fail. To be honest, anything that stops one party enforcing all its' ideas over a long period of time is good. Imagine if the last 13 years of Labour had been tempered by having to appease the tories or lib dems? Lots of stupid decisions would never have made it.

 

[civy]

What you mean slashing public spending at the worst possible time? Government spending is what drives an economy out of recession, the Tories are going to do the opposite by making 100,000's of public servants unemployed to make those cost savings. What they won't admit is those job losses have a massive knockon effect to the rest of the economy, the housing market slows further and retail takes a massive hit. Alot of those jobs did need to go, government was employing too many people but doing it now or in the next couple of years is an epic mistake.
.

The problem is half the public sector workers are high paid unemplyed. It's my taxes paying for them to sit on their arse. Every public sector worker moved into the private sector is a double gain. They are no longer a drain on the taxes and they are now contributing.

Rather than emplying them directly the government should be encouraging inward investment. Offering tax breaks and incentives for companies to move here.

I'm not saying sack the lot of them but when someone leaves/retires they just dont replace them.

The country cant continue to borrow 160 billion pounds a year. ATM we are paying nominal interest on the bonds about 1.2%. Imagine what would happen if the markets lost faith and ramped them up to 15% like the greeks had to deal with. The county would be paying 150 billion a year just to cover the interest.

The debt needs slashing and yes that means alot of public sector jobs will have to go.

 

[Ch3tan]

Believe me, I would like to see it work out and the country to recover, I can't see it happening but I do want it to happen regardless of who does it.

If there was one thing I would cut it is the Trident replacement program, £100 billion for a handful of submarine based nukes is a national disgrace. Just having mobile land launchers would cut those costs by 75% I reckon.

1. 2356: More on the details of the coalition deal. The Lib Dems agreed to an emergency budget within 50 days and to Tory a budget reduction plan including £6bn in cuts to non-frontline services in 2010/11. The two sides also agreed a commitment to a replacement for the Trident nuclear missile system but the programme will be scrutinised for value for money.
   
   

 

[Mabs]

lib dems sold out to get a foot in the door

nice one clegg, wont be seeing that party much any more then, you spit in the face of your supporters, you get whats coming to you

 

[cHodAX]

Not in countries of our size it doesn't but more importantly not coalitions between parties with such idealogical differences. The Tories are at best centre right, half the party is full right though as witnessed by the power struggles of the 1990's. The Liberals are centre left to the core, they both have very different views on the role of government and the fundamental polices such as economy, defence and enviroment are miles apart.

 

[cHodAX]

1. 2356: More on the details of the coalition deal. The Lib Dems agreed to an emergency budget within 50 days and to Tory a budget reduction plan including £6bn in cuts to non-frontline services in 2010/11. The two sides also agreed a commitment to a replacement for the Trident nuclear missile system but the programme will be scrutinised for value for money.
   
   

Dear god I hope they see sense and go land based, all that money would make a sizeable reduction in the national debt and when you think about it do we really need nukes anyway?

 

[civy]

lib dems sold out to get a foot in the door

nice one clegg, wont be seeing that party much any more then, you spit in the face of your supporters, you get whats coming to you

OFC they did. but what options did they have.

Support lab and the government would have collapsed in 6 months - result new elections and the libs would have taken the brunt of the blame.

Go alone and vote down the tories minority government and same result.

Their option were limited by their own retoric. This is a preview of PR.

They have to make this work or any chance they had of voting reform would be kicked into touch fro a generation.

 

[ileks]

Dear god I hope they see sense and go land based, all that money would make a sizeable reduction in the national debt and when you think about it do we really need nukes anyway?

Of course we do. You just don't know what the future holds. It could well be a waste of money but it's not worth taking the risk imo.

 

[Marc]

Oh great. Great news for our household. Our lass will soon be out of a job, something shes done all her life

 

[Raven]

Going land based defeats the object of having a nuclear deterrent when you are as small as the UK, having submarines dotted about the place means they cannot be targeted and act as a deterrent rather than a target.

 

[MYstIC G]

No no no. Wrong. History shows quite clearly, government spending drives economies out of recession. Cutting public sector spending means job losses which effects every area of the economy. You do not cut spending at this stage of a recession, it is bad economics. Certainly not via job cuts anyway. Cancel the I.D. card program to save money? Hell yes, overpriced and not needed but making cuts right through the civil service and other public sector areas is a fundamental mistake that is going to cost us all if the market starts to get shakey again.

The national debt is insane anyway, another 2 years of slightly lower borrowing will make jack shit difference to that but will stall the economy and make this recession last longer, possibly deeper and at risk of a double dip.

Government spending and benefit payments are different things. They can spend as much money as they like on road building, school building, etc, etc.

As for slightly lower borrowing making jack shit difference, you must be a bank of some kind, that's exactly the sort of bullshit that gets people into debt in the first place.

 

[Ch3tan]

Oh great. Great news for our household. Our lass will soon be out of a job, something shes done all her life

really? Why is that, when the only commitment is that they reduce spending in the public sector? Or is her role in a mickey mouse department that serves no real purpose but to keep people in employment? Not trying to be nasty, btw, just want to know.

 

[Mauness]

Comparing this tory government to one of 20 years ago, made up of different people is what I find shit, it's a different era, with different problems. The tories of the 80's had to deal with the problems of the time (caused by labour and the unions), are we all going to bang on about the 70's next time labour come into power?

Judge them on the policies they have this time, not the past. Historic voting is bad.

Isnt quite alot of the higher up tory backbencher still made up old thatcher/major peeps? If not then i appologise, just something i though i understood throughout the coalition talks.

What do tory voters actually make with getting into bed with lib dems? its pretty obvious to me the nick clegg used labour to get the electral reform from tories. But i just cant see them getting along for the full length of time, throughout the debates etc, both parties idea's where so far apart.

 

[Raven]

I would rather it hadn't happened but there wasn't a lot of choice. I think it will be good for the Tories, a sort of angel on the shoulder.

 

[Zede]

Comparing this tory government to one of 20 years ago, made up of different people is what I find shit, it's a different era, with different problems. The tories of the 80's had to deal with the problems of the time (caused by labour and the unions), are we all going to bang on about the 70's next time labour come into power?

Judge them on the policies they have this time, not the past. Historic voting is bad.

oh Lookie here, someone else not agreeing with you - are they an idiot too ?

Your an arrogant blinkered fool.

Here you go cock face, just for you

Arrogant - Psychology Wiki

Realise you are NOT I repeat NOT always right.

hands up ! if anyone has ANYTHING in common with a bunch of chaps who went to Eton then Oxford together. Money, Power & Privilege is why Cameron is in power, how on earth can you tories feel ok with this...... oh waits..! its been like oh since the times of Cromwell.

 

[Raven]

Did the entire Labour party go to grammar schools?