Diablo III

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

Well if its not ganking you want I don't see the problem with just the arena, you can do everything in an arena you can do in open world PvP, the only differences is space (which shouldnt be an issue for good players) and the fact you can't gank people at will. They can easily add more later like Capture the flag or assault the base/enemy boss like Alterac Valley type stuff, just have to give them time, give the game time to develop until then start prepping your characters.

Hehe, was hungover like crazy before so I guess my point or what I meant was pritty fuzzy

I mean diablo 2 housed what 8 players in a game at a time right? D3 will house 4, having the same mechanics in both games wouldnt really work I think, since well 4 players / game ain't that interesting if you mix pvp into it.

I have no problem with the concept of keeping pve and pvp seperate, so that people who prefer not to pvp don't get pigeonholed or forced into something they don't like. However I do believe for a large portion of the old diablo and diablo 2 fans pvp is a massive part of the game. You grind exp, and grind bosses and whatnot to get gear to support a certain playstyle, once you feel you got the gear necesseray to compate somewhat vs others you really want to test yourself, and even with the very basic "pvp" tools/system of d2 "we" managed to develop quite complex pvp structures of rules, tournaments, restrictions on items and so on.

A game mode or "game type" or whatever that would allow "invasion" and house more then 4 players would be golden I think, also classic "arena" type of maps or level designs would be great for people to join once they feel they are done with the pve part of the game and just wanna hang about talking smack, duelling and playing the game for sport.

A proper size landscape that holds 8 players ( more if we get more classes ) so you can get some Team vs team going would be the best thing ever I reckon. When it comes to balance issues well they will be there, but eventually the pvp community will sort itself out and will establish informal /unofficial rules that ban overpowered abils or items that break the games class balance in an obvious none sportsmanship way.
For the people who care enough to seek these communities out obiding by unoffical rules for the sake of sportsmanship will not be a problem since they seek a fair challenge, while the more casual folks who play for other reasons can do whatever they want in their own games and abuse whatever ability they want.

I think though a key element here is to avoid any kind of official ladderings, it should all be community based and respect, epeen and all that should be something you get from your "peers" within respective communities and not some mock up "offical" blizzard ranking / ladder system that people will just abuse and statpad to get on.
Remove the incentives to play unfairly and the "market", so to speak will balance itself out. Serious pvp people will make their own rules and to be valued within that community ( if you strive for that ), getting epeen and so on you will have to follow the rules or you will be excluded, thus making cheating and general selfish gamebreaking behaviour ( like abusing unfair or broken features of the game ) pointless.

 

[BloodOmen]

That would work I guess, the problem is conveying that to Blizzard because its fairly obvious not enough people have voiced opinions about the lack of pvp and until they do you will get nothing pretty much.

Having the odd guy on the official forums making a thread like "Blizzard sucks give us pvp" then going on to have a good cry about it really isnt showing Blizzard anything what the pvp community need to do is get together somewhere and really voice as a community what you want, just bare in mind Blizzard arent really inclined to listen as this is alot different than an MMO... in an MMO you are paying for a service so naturally Blizzard will listen to you as a customer in D3 you've already bought the game and there is no subs so Blizzard probably won't be as understanding as they have been with WoW.

 

[Gray]

I was playing Diablo II for a bit, using my left/right mouse clicks. It was a few days later i thought "shit, hang on, i remember you can bind keys to other abilities as well"

I could have cried after bashing all the mobs around on my barb. Glad the UI is a bit more MMO-like now instead of making me feel like a moron.

Is it my understanding in Diablo3 that items you obtain are NOT bound to you, which means they can be used, and traded at will? Also, in D2 one of the things that pissed me off was when an item dropped, you needed to have fastest finger first to be able to pickup the item, and *HOPE* that your inventory wasn't full of shit. Is it a lot more fairer in group games now, or is it still the old click and hope when you see something yellow/orange

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

I was playing Diablo II for a bit, using my left/right mouse clicks. It was a few days later i thought "shit, hang on, i remember you can bind keys to other abilities as well"

I could have cried after bashing all the mobs around on my barb. Glad the UI is a bit more MMO-like now instead of making me feel like a moron.

Is it my understanding in Diablo3 that items you obtain are NOT bound to you, which means they can be used, and traded at will? Also, in D2 one of the things that pissed me off was when an item dropped, you needed to have fastest finger first to be able to pickup the item, and *HOPE* that your inventory wasn't full of shit. Is it a lot more fairer in group games now, or is it still the old click and hope when you see something yellow/orange

1) The UI is diffrent yes, didnt really get it though during beta, I couldn't bind skills ( hehe ) but from watching dev vids seem you can swap between the active/any time skills with the mousewheel or something to bring next "list" up.

2) The drop system is 100% personal, so no other person can see "your" drops. Guess its a good thing, but feels abit wierd to be honest. I do agree though that having a system where the fastest lootwhore clicker gets most of the items is not ideal either.

 

[BloodOmen]

One thing that gets me about the personal drop system, surely that means the AH will be flooded with rare/legendary items? unless they're even more rare than they were on D2.

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

One thing that gets me about the personal drop system, surely that means the AH will be flooded with rare/legendary items? unless they're even more rare than they were on D2.

Yah it will probably be a good healthy junk of loot on the AH very fast after release, good thing though I think.

 

[LordjOX]

Is it my understanding in Diablo3 that items you obtain are NOT bound to you, which means they can be used, and traded at will? Also, in D2 one of the things that pissed me off was when an item dropped, you needed to have fastest finger first to be able to pickup the item, and *HOPE* that your inventory wasn't full of shit. Is it a lot more fairer in group games now, or is it still the old click and hope when you see something yellow/orange

There is no bind on pickup, a few years ago they discussed it, but dropped it since it was against the diablo spirit.

As BloodOmen pointed out, all loot and gold with one current exception is yours to keep 100%. The exception to gold drops are treasure goblins, which as of the latest patch dropped global gold to encourage people to chase them down. This might change though.

One thing that gets me about the personal drop system, surely that means the AH will be flooded with rare/legendary items? unless they're even more rare than they were on D2.

Rare items for all levels will probably be common after just a few days. Each mini-boss / act boss drops a rare automatically the first time you kill it. For example Skeleton King. So right there you have very many rares introduced to the AH after just 1 hr.

However, from personal experience with about 20-30 full playthroughs of the beta with level 13 ~40% mf char, I've had rare items drop TWICE. This includes countless trash mobs and a substantial amount of unique, champion and champion packs. It's not exactly comparable to endgame, but it gives a fair indication.

Legendary items, hard to tell. Afaik the level 60 ones only drop in Inferno, which devs have promised should be silly hard. So right there you have some limitations of farming. But yeah, there will be a silly amount of people playing and farming. Besides, you can count on that the supply of legendary items never will sate the demand. It only did that in D2 because of massive duping

 

[BloodOmen]

Lets hope so eh and lets hope there arent corrupt admins this time that leave a bug in on purpose for people to dupe (was an article about it awhile ago, blizzard admitted there were some employees that purposely left the bug there because they were making money off it behind the companies back or some shit)

 

[LordjOX]

FAQ regarding global play and the auction house: http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-global-play-faq

 

[BloodOmen]

Ah, I like it how you can use the gold based AH on any region atleast... means it'll be even easier to get hold of items (assuming people sell them for gold)

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ah, I like it how you can use the gold based AH on any region atleast... means it'll be even easier to get hold of items (assuming people sell them for gold)

I think the main trading is in gold anyway, though the system is like a prune GF, you can't transfer any stuff between regions.

 

[LordjOX]

Gold and stash are seperate for each region and there is no way to transfer between them.

 

[Gray]

Just seen this on MMO-Champion, unlikely i would have known much about it if they didn't show it in this video!


View: http://youtu.be/SYiRrf_OQ7o

 

[BloodOmen]

One of the things he said in that video just made me /facepalm

"He's going to go world first Inferno" ... WoW fanboy ahoy, I really hope these peons arent going to start the whole "World first" shit up again, it just isnt the same in Diablo III.

 

[Aada]

One of the things he said in that video just made me /facepalm

"He's going to go world first Inferno" ... WoW fanboy ahoy, I really hope these peons arent going to start the whole "World first" shit up again, it just isnt the same in Diablo III.

Does it really bother you? honestly i don't bat an eye lid at this stuff anymore.

 

[BloodOmen]

Does it really bother you? honestly i don't bat an eye lid at this stuff anymore.

It doesnt bother me to the point where I'll write an essay on it but it bothers me because I dislike the sort of community it creates over time, a community full of imbeciles basically.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Blood is just jelly 'cause he never got world first

 

[BloodOmen]

Blood is just jelly 'cause he never got world first

Never tried for one never been that bothered about them really. E-fame just doesnt interest me

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

Yah, pritty sure after watching this that PvP will be focused on heavy by the devs. All the talk previously on how Diablo is not a pvp game and whatnot was most likely just PR spin to shut up the PvE people who see red the moment they hear the word PvP.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J-zZRhgnnRM


Don't really get any clearer then this, and frankly it makes a lot of sense, nobody in their right mind would play for years, buy items on RMAH, and strive to get better and better gear on multiple classes to beat diablo for the 1263716283th time, it is all about PvP and getting that little edge on your competition.

I do hope they don't implement pvp ladders and rankings though since it will only be stat padded and come out as pointless statistics and used to put people down in the forums and it creates a negative community that only bicker and epeen compare with fony, inflated or irrelevant stats.

Best way is if people who like pvp join pvp communities on sub forums and whatnot and organize their own thing, and that way you get to keep track of your own "community" stars so to speak, keeps the padding and cheats in check and you avoid an official system that will be used and abused to belittle and patronize players that prefer a diffrent type of gameplay then your own ( say classical play for fun and to kill some monsters vs the hardcore min maxing pvp team ).

 

[old.Tohtori]

nobody in their right mind would play for years, buy items on RMAH, and strive to get better and better gear on multiple classes to beat diablo for the 1263716283th time, it is all about PvP and getting that little edge on your competition.

belittle and patronize players that prefer a diffrent type of gameplay then your own

Ahem.

 

[Raven]

I don't much care for the PvP so I am glad they are focusing on the PvE for release...better to get the core game right before introducing PvP, which needs a hell of a lot more testing for balance and whatnot, not something that can be done in beta really.

Button mashing PvP such as WoWs is dreadful though and I really hope they don't go down that route.

 

[BloodOmen]

Yah, pritty sure after watching this that PvP will be focused on heavy by the devs. All the talk previously on how Diablo is not a pvp game and whatnot was most likely just PR spin to shut up the PvE people who see red the moment they hear the word PvP.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J-zZRhgnnRM


Don't really get any clearer then this, and frankly it makes a lot of sense, nobody in their right mind would play for years, buy items on RMAH, and strive to get better and better gear on multiple classes to beat diablo for the 1263716283th time, it is all about PvP and getting that little edge on your competition.

I do hope they don't implement pvp ladders and rankings though since it will only be stat padded and come out as pointless statistics and used to put people down in the forums and it creates a negative community that only bicker and epeen compare with fony, inflated or irrelevant stats.

Best way is if people who like pvp join pvp communities on sub forums and whatnot and organize their own thing, and that way you get to keep track of your own "community" stars so to speak, keeps the padding and cheats in check and you avoid an official system that will be used and abused to belittle and patronize players that prefer a diffrent type of gameplay then your own ( say classical play for fun and to kill some monsters vs the hardcore min maxing pvp team ).

Aye, but it wont be world pvp it'll be all arena/battleground pvp.

Also! monsters with "Waller" in Inferno sound fucking nasty.

 

[LordjOX]

At its core D3 is a PvE game.

Aye, but it wont be world pvp it'll be all arena/battleground pvp.

Also! monsters with "Waller" in Inferno sound fucking nasty.

Waller monster affix were in beta aswell, maybe just to test? They basically create a pen around you with one exit, you need leap or teleport or something to get out fast. It lasts maybe 5 seconds or so

 

[Poag]

Don't really get any clearer then this, and frankly it makes a lot of sense, nobody in their right mind would play for years, buy items on RMAH, and strive to get better and better gear on multiple classes to beat diablo for the 1263716283th time, it is all about PvP and getting that little edge on your competition.

Not seen many WoW raiders then have you?

 

[BloodOmen]

At its core D3 is a PvE game.


Waller monster affix were in beta aswell, maybe just to test? They basically create a pen around you with one exit, you need leap or teleport or something to get out fast. It lasts maybe 5 seconds or so

Lol, have fun hardcore players in that case

 

[LordjOX]

I wouldn't worry about waller affix alone.

But considering at higher difficulties champion packs on rare mobs get multiple affixes, they can hurt quite alot. There is an affix called Molten, which creates a trail of almost insta death beneath the mob. Only time I almost died during beta

Been playing alot of PoE recently on HC, which is pretty fun. Gave me the taste to try it out in D3.

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

Ahem.

Loul, interesting out of context quotation there

I mean yah I can't sit here and say that I don't enjoy that aswell, but I can understand that nobody should be subjected to it, unwillingly atleast. But yah if I manage to bait you (PvE horders) into an endless discussion of whos 'the man' and "sink" to my level of shitslinging then your mine, hence why pvp communitys seperate from blizzard should be made (3rd party forums with ladders, rankings etc ) at release and we grow our own community and implement our own rules, and ways of doing things.

If Blizzard give the community some freedome we will create our own e-sport out of it and they don't have to inolve themselves too much. OPed abils will be banned by the community for balance and diversitys sake. Nobody cares if PvE oriented players use it in their own games since it has no impact on anyone else, and without "official" ladders that would only lead to fuel the endless moaning and whinging about balance, oped classes, stat padding and how people are noobs for abusing obvious gamebreaking elements to profit and climb ladders etc etc etc.

I spent hours in #pvp #SINpvp #swepvp etc with Xanatea, Belgarion, yougonnadie, xanathar and so on and the other big names from my period of D2ing ( wich was from release to 1.07 when they ruined the game completly with all the immunes and passive healing from taking damage wich become retarded, nerfing frozen orb for no reason and all that buriza pierce + perma snare bullshit that came after that patch and then the expansion after that wich was the final nail in the coffin. I did play the classic mode only after that but it was not the same still ).

Man I'm looking forward to this game, I just hope the pathological horders don't get too much saying with the PvP, as long as it don't affect them they should stfu :E

Was going through all Arena and pvp photage on youtube that I could find yesterday ( nothing to do at work so I'm home leeching~ ) and I think blizzard will figure it out.

1) Arenas a la old roman coloseum type of gameplay
2) Open maps a la Bloodmore/cold plains style for more open Team vs Team gameplay and random duelleing and last man standing
3) Some form of strategy based/goal oriented battleground map for a diffrent game capture the flag/egg/whatever with some twist to the ruleset or something

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

Aye, but it wont be world pvp it'll be all arena/battleground pvp.

Also! monsters with "Waller" in Inferno sound fucking nasty.

World pvp is a minor thing really.

Wouldn't work in Diablo 3 either due to the way maps seem to be funneled and more tunnel oriented, while in D2 they were large square maps with some stuff thrown in there.

4 players is also a too small nummber to make anything interesting, I'm more in favor of the arena/closed/seperate game for conducting all pvp activities.

Diablo 2 and 3 for me is just as item oriented as DAoC, WoW, Age of Conan and basically any other modern rpgish game. The destinction between a "true" RPG and an MMORPG is almost not there today. RPGs are more instanced and have a world that scales and uses less nummbers of player in each "instance" of the world, thats basically the only diffrence.

But there is no going around, D3 will be item oriented and thats good, I like the multidue of ways one can be good at the game to get an upper hand over others. Be it beeing good at trading ( yes some are better then this by default ), me for example always struggled to build wealth in games and had to rely on friends for items to compete. Some will be better are strategizing, some will be better are litterally manouvering their toon and putting thought and action together. Some will be better at farming, have a better organization, more determination and more luck ( you make your own luck I always said ).

To me the game is about both pve and pvp and trading and networking. But the end game for me personally is about pvp, to others its trading ( pve ). When people say that the game will be so hard to balance and whatnot I'm not sure I agree at all. If one look at the skills and the runes they are not that overpowered prone to begin with, seems to be minor-medium-ver very situational enchances to base abilities.

1.5-3 second stuns not like its a 9s "anytime" stun from a class with stealth..that has no immunity timer....ringing any bells ?

 

[old.Tohtori]

3rd party means elitism and if the playerbase makes the rules, then it will still be the same, just without official and equal changes.

I'd prefer an official ladder done well, but saying PVE is better then PVP, or other way around, or that one should be focused on, is wrong as that discriminates against parts of the playerbase.

That's why i quoted it as i did, seemed a bit PVE hatey

 

[Sneakers<>Matriarch]

3rd party means elitism and if the playerbase makes the rules, then it will still be the same, just without official and equal changes.

I'd prefer an official ladder done well, but saying PVE is better then PVP, or other way around, or that one should be focused on, is wrong as that discriminates against parts of the playerbase.

That's why i quoted it as i did, seemed a bit PVE hatey

Yah might be a bit elitistic but then again nothing wrong with beeing elitistic as long as you don't enforce anything on someone who don't want to take part of it. Hence why making elite communitys is a good compromise. The PvE herd don't want the PvP herd to nag on blizz to make changes to the possibly OPed PvE skillls to balance them to PvP somehow then ruining the PvE effectiveness of them. Instead we ban the use of them in the elitist 3rd party ran ladders and tournaments.

Let the PvE folks 1 shot eachother in "vanillia" arenas/pvp games and us who are serious about pvp and want it to be balanced will just make our own rules and as a community agree to not use certain items or combonations of skills and items for the sake of balance. Nobody who really want to play competativly wants a situation where you have 4x wich doctors fighting 4x witch doctors all one shotting eachother with some OPed combo of items + skill right? So we ban it and end of story.

The reason to avoid an official ladder and ranking system is to kill off the sick need some people have to get the e-peen, using cheats, exploits and whatnot to get there forcing others to do the same if they want to be on equal level and so on. Remove the reward and there is no incentive to behave in that way.

Let the communitys run the laddering and ranking and if people are not playing fair according to their OWN community then they will be removed/disqualified etc. self policing and all that.

A true elite pvper don't value some bogus ladder with a bunch of statpadding children who cheat and abuse any exploit they find in the game to reach top positions. I want to be respected within the community I play in right? Having people you think is good think you are awesome is the only thing that really matters no? If you play well and you get to play with other people who also play well ( in your op ) and you beat other people you respect and consider to be really good then thats something to value.

Guess there more then one way, but this is how diablo ii was when I played it at launch and up to 1.07 patch wich killed the game.