DAOC new Server time OLD OF no TOA/DR/LOTM

[Ctuchik]

It really confuses me why 'casuals' would be against spellcrafting because thats the goddamn answer to putting all the gamers on the same starting line without tricked out templates and endless hours spent camping mobs.

because (and say of that what you want) templates are expensive. and most casuals for one reason or another dont have the time to get the cash for one. when all you had were the epics and the odd rare drop (of wich most dropped from quite alot of different spawns) things WERE better.

i remember when i got the original epic on my shammy, it took about 2 hours to complete the last step wich most, if not all casuals had the time for. i had lvl 30 - 40 quest rings and belts and stuff and still were very much viable for rvr. the second SC came you were forced to grind a shitload of plat just to pay for the ARMOR pieces, 10+ plat for a MC helmet were by no means rare, and double that for a MC chest and then just as much cash AGAIN for the SC.


so no, SC did not simplify things for the casuals. it made it hell.

 

[Coldbeard]

belive im gonna give it a try, been missing daoc so much

wooord

 

[anioal]

so no, SC did not simplify things for the casuals. it made it hell.

It actually DID simplify things...
Even my very casual 1st lvl50 (chanter) had a template with 75 dex/con/int and most resists at 20%+ . It was done with quest jewelry and sced 99% crafted cloths back then at the end of 2003.

 

[WiZe^]

Am so looking forward to farming Boi, lol....

 

[Access Denied]

Oh and removing theurg makes perfect sense. Anyone who has the slightest clue how pets and interrupt work in DAoC RvR knows how sickeningly overpowered class the theurgist is, then you have the noobs who think theurgist is an 'ok' class and some are stupid enough to actually think they are somehow underpowered. The whole class was a mistake to begin with.

Please elaborate on how you think the Theurgist class was a mistake. Granted the pets are good for interrupt but they have to get to the target first. A decent caster for instance would have time to really wallop the Theurg by the time the pets arrived on his doorstep, and a pure tank calss would be able to ignore the pets and go straight for the caster.

If you want to talk about an overpowered pet class you need look no further than the BD. I play Alb so I can't comment on Hib classes ability to deal with BD's but the only Alb class I can think of that has any real chance of successfully dealing with a BD is a Sorc with thier Mezz. Otherwise you have a pet healing the BD, however many pets attacking you and the BD themself has an instacast lifetap.

 

[Drucken]

I didn't start playing daoc for real untill after SI was released so I'm not familiar with crafting keeps and the old items and such but from what you describe it reminds me alot of early toa: hours of camping! Which really I found was the only problem with toa, once they improved it so that you only need credit for artis, scrolls drop easier and you can do MLs in whatever order I had no problem with ToA.
But back to SI, when I got my first character to 50 I only had to pay like 1 plat for the SC and a few more for a 99% armor, then with some df/quest jewelry I was capped and ready for RvR. Spending hours camping things once again does to really appeal to me
And trust me people will craft. First of all because, for some reason, some people have like 5 crafters and don't find it really boring or something. And second I remember that back in those days the best way to earn money was to farm DF and then salvage+trinket and sell.
So i totally agree with Eleasias, SC was better for both casual and hardcore players as it made it possible for everyone to play RvR quicker. And the people who like PvE could raid the high level SI dungeon (sidi in alb, and some glacier in mid etc.).
As far as I see SI did nothing but improve the game and I definatley think it should be part of a server which is only supposed to bring back "the goold old days" and earn mythic some more monthly payments.

Besides, I'm pretty sure ToA bonuses will be implemented as Mythic will stick to the new epics in the same way they've stuck to the new archery system etc.

 

[Drucken]

Please elaborate on how you think the Theurgist class was a mistake. Granted the pets are good for interrupt but they have to get to the target first. A decent caster for instance would have time to really wallop the Theurg by the time the pets arrived on his doorstep, and a pure tank calss would be able to ignore the pets and go straight for the caster.

If you want to talk about an overpowered pet class you need look no further than the BD. I play Alb so I can't comment on Hib classes ability to deal with BD's but the only Alb class I can think of that has any real chance of successfully dealing with a BD is a Sorc with thier Mezz. Otherwise you have a pet healing the BD, however many pets attacking you and the BD themself has an instacast lifetap.

Theurg vs tank (before charge) = ice pets+kite
Theurg vs caster = air pets+kite

The thing is that theurgs have such crazy range on their pet spells. In group fights I say they are fine since they can be eliminated quickly and pets can get killed pretty easily, but one on one with no adds and max range they are like impossible for anything other than a stealther.

And yes I agree BDs are very overpowered aswell but pointing out other flaws doesn't fix the other I'm just curious which class gets the PBT... probably and hopefully minstrel

 

[Korax]

Me, Glacier and probably a couple of others will defo be back for this. Cant wait!

Im not really worked up over the spesific rules either. Just a chance to get a guild going again and having a great time is what I want!

 

[Eleasias]

Very much viable for RvR Ctuchik? Sure, back then. It didn't matter because you were all new to the game and such but the truth is, you were gimped to hell compared to the people who WERE min/maxing their armor and jewelry, spending hours grinding mobs to get that 1 drop etc. (refer to my earlier post). And trust me, this will happen once again with hardcore players with hours to spend farming mobs that will drop better loot thus creating superior templates. This will create a gap between those who can spend the time and those who cannot. And isnt the whole point to remove it? Isnt that the very grudge that casuals have about the regular servers, people with lots of time/organization/contacts being able to get far superior templates and creating a huge gap between them, making them not wanting to go out in the frontiers simply because they will get a default loss because of templates?

I'm not sure how you can first say that it was ok when some loot was expensive and people would pay mad cash for it but then they wouldnt later on afford SC? Especially now with the new crafting system.

Oh also, this wasnt meant to be COMPLETELY classic like it was back then. Hell, I would never come back for such a server, I had 57 days /played on my ranger when I hit level 50. I dont have time for that, especially time that I dont ENJOY. Get over with the PvE as fast as possible and get to the good stuff, RvR. This was supposed to be a server with the thought of "doing it all over again knowing what we know now". Why the fuck would anyone do all the same mistakes AGAIN when you know better? Why do you demand an all or nothing approach? We have the chance to get ALL the good stuff without the bad sides such as sick downtime, huge timesinks, camping mobs etc. Fast crafting, fast leveling, easy to get templates and off you go with a character thats not behind people who can manage to spend 28764278 hrs doing mindnumbing mob camping. The bad thing is, I will probably spend all those hours needed to get the items if they decide to go with that shitty approach and that's the goddamn last thing I want, even if I know I'd have a better template than most people. nothx

 

[Lucius]

Just leave people alone Eleasias, no one cares about how you are going to roll casuals anyway. We are going to this server and we will enjoy it, even if only for a couple of months, with or without you.

 

[Eleasias]

So lets get this right. You would enjoy hours and hours of camping mobs to get drops, spend endless hours exping, doing Cursed Forest runs over and over again to have a chance at winning a lotto for that bracer and all the crap OR playing with a far worse template? Isnt this the EXCACT problem the game is suffering from now, hardcore players having enough time to get superior templates over casuals?

You are completely missing my point. I want to be casual. I dont want to spend hours camping mobs or organizing raids. I just wanna level up, do a few quests and get crafted armor & sc and be done with it.

 

[Lucius]

So lets get this right. You would enjoy hours and hours of camping mobs to get drops, spend endless hours exping, doing Cursed Forest runs over and over again to have a chance at winning a lotto for that bracer and all the crap OR playing with a far worse template? Isnt this the EXCACT problem the game is suffering from now, hardcore players having enough time to get superior templates over casuals?

You are completely missing my point. I want to be casual. I dont want to spend hours camping mobs or organizing raids. I just wanna level up, do a few quests and get crafted armor & sc and be done with it.

No I wouldn't, you have a good point but I feel you should just let those who want to play play the server. We don't even know the final changes yet so much could happen.

 

[Eleasias]

And just as an example, I'm trying to get a few of my rl friends to try this server out, who have never played DAoC before. Which one do you think they are more interested in? They know for a fact by now that the greatest and best thing about DAoC is RvR, and it is not only the best thing about DAoC but the greatest implementation of a group vs group pvp system in any game.

The server where they can get as good a template as me with little effort, with me posting them the template stats and walkthroughs for the quests required for the template, and telling them how to buy crafted armor and contacting a SC'er. All done within a few days. And then you are ready for RvR, the thing that everyone wants to do.

OR

The server where I give them my template stats, list of items where they drop, probably a link to forums where people organize CF/Sheeroe/Bog raids and have a chance at lottoing against a load of people to get that _1_ item for your template. And this is only if people are making public raids, which probably wont be that common. So first they'd have to get into a raiding group or a guild, and then do the raiding for items. After thay have gone to multiple raids and gotten lucky with a lotto, they have 1 out of 10 items required for their template. Only 9 to go, wohoo!

SC is very simple and easy to get and it gives an optimal template so you can just go RvR without feeling you have a gimped template compared to others!

No I wouldn't, you have a good point but I feel you should just let those who want to play play the server. We don't even know the final changes yet so much could happen.

But I want to play this server so bad myself, no bd's, no theurgs, big population and lots of action. I just dont want to spend hours upon hours getting to RvR.

 

[GReaper]

One thing to remember about Theurgists, their petspam wasn't that great until it was improved with patches. It wasn't much of a mistake, but boosting them caused problems.

The duration of earth/ice/air pets was 30/25/20 seconds (from what I remember) and a pathetic 1500 range, as long was being slow for movement - you could outsprint them. What would you rather do at 1500 range - nuke or send a pet which won't do anything close to the damage of a single nuke?

It makes sense to remove it now though, as they'd have to nerf it quite badly to fit in - it's easier to balance without it.

 

[Drucken]

No I wouldn't, you have a good point but I feel you should just let those who want to play play the server. We don't even know the final changes yet so much could happen.

He isn't trying to get you not to play it, there is just a discussion whether SC should or should not be implemented.

Another point in the discussion is that without alchemy and SC all other crafting would be pretty useless, who would run around wwearing an armor with no stats or procs? Nothing but AF? The only good crafting would be for is salvaging

 

[gwal]

Granted the pets are good for interrupt but they have to get to the target first. A decent caster for instance would have time to really wallop the Theurg by the time the pets arrived on his doorstep, and a pure tank calss would be able to ignore the pets and go straight for the caster.

no gonna get into whether or not the theurg was a mistake, but..

determining any one classes strength on the ability of a single opponent to find him in a grp is not fair.

no, the theurg isnt all that great if he gets targetted quickly and ppl are on him - but neither is any other caster. even the bd will fall if he has a couple moccing casters on him.

on the other end of the scale of ur example would prolly be smth like this:
a decent theurg is able to hide at the start of the fight and come out on either side of it. being out of view for a few secs will allow him to spam pets on pretty much every person in the enemy grp. after that their caster(s) will be too busy to go for him, and tanks will be too late as he can now kite with pets out alrdy.


that said, i personally dont care if its in or not, unless i play alb

 

[gwal]

oh, forgot why i even started to write

dont need MP armour to compete tho, 99% will do just fine, and can still cap almost all. the cash for that will be gained purely from lvling to 50 in a pl grp, maybee with a short grind without the pl (ie 1 - 2 days of a couple hours each).

 

[Tuorin]

Yeh 99% SC and few bits n bobs like Warshadow bracers would probably be just dandy.

 

[Faeldawn]

oh, forgot why i even started to write

dont need MP armour to compete tho, 99% will do just fine, and can still cap almost all. the cash for that will be gained purely from lvling to 50 in a pl grp, maybee with a short grind without the pl (ie 1 - 2 days of a couple hours each).

Who is going to do the pl? Everyone will be level 1...

Personally i'd like to see pult groups again

 

[Coldbeard]

Yeh 99% SC and few bits n bobs like Warshadow bracers would probably be just dandy.

Hey Tuo, you gonna be playing on this server?!

 

[Tuorin]

Hey Tuo, you gonna be playing on this server?!

Hi Zeph how's it going?

It does intrigue, gaming with old friends and perhaps back at when 8v 8 rvr was real fun. Yes I will play if it pans out, albeit finding the time may a problem!

A good thing could be that it goes back, but with some of the later fixes made to classes. It will be good to play a warden again potentially. Instead of being shoe horned into a Bg/grapple bot you can play the ubiquitous role that Wardens used to have in the past. The additions of some of the abilities like the heal procs/group heal procs and celerity and of course slam make the the old interupt style even better. Was some great fun playing that way when there was some equilibrium to the realms.

I don't think I'll be a wanting to pve though.

 

[Faeldawn]

Hi Zeph how's it going?

It does intrigue, gaming with old friends and perhaps back at when 8v 8 rvr was real fun. Yes I will play if it pans out, albeit finding the time may a problem!

A good thing could be that it goes back, but with some of the later fixes made to classes. It will be good to play a warden again potentially. Instead of being shoe horned into a Bg/grapple bot you can play the ubiquitous role that Wardens used to have in the past. The additions of some of the abilities like the heal procs/group heal procs and celerity and of course slam make the the old interupt style even better. Was some great fun playing that way when there was some equilibrium to the realms.

I don't think I'll be a wanting to pve though.

This is one of the big unanswered questions still, how far exactly are they going to change the current classes. Wardens needed spec shield from the outset, but celerity etc? Current classes have tried to be balanced for full ToA/NF/LOTM, I wonder how they will change them for a "classic" server?

 

[Tuorin]

This is one of the big unanswered questions still, how far exactly are they going to change the current classes. Wardens needed spec shield from the outset, but celerity etc? Current classes have tried to be balanced for full ToA/NF/LOTM, I wonder how they will change them for a "classic" server?

Quite true. I never played with the celerity chant, had finished before then. It is relatively short range so its value post toa isn't that uber if wardens are bg botting. In Origins, its value would have to worked out. As Pally's are going to have their healing boosted, then you could have a more effective hybrid than a Warden if all things stay the same. As you say, it depends what they tinker with.

 

[Yurka]

will be interesting to see what they do about cast speed... maybe mota or moa (can't remember which one it was) will make a come back.

 

[gwal]

Who is going to do the pl? Everyone will be level 1...

Personally i'd like to see pult groups again

ment in general with the pl, but some ppl do make their own pl grps (what we used to do when on new server). everybody goes pb class, or healer/guard bot. once done lvling u lvl the pvp classes.
faster than lvling a tank grp for instance, and u got all the cash u could want.

 

[Lucius]

I think the atmosphere of starting a new server will be the best thing. People will be exping in the old areas again with old faces from as long as 5 years back. It will be a fantastic experience, very nostalgic.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Yeah, if I'd have a C64 I'd undust it to for 30 seconds and put it back again.

 

[Drucken]

Yeah, if I'd have a C64 I'd undust it to for 30 seconds and put it back again.

Good for you

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Good for you

I just witnessed what happened to the so called classic server on Europe and GoA's broad inability so I don't believe in the success of a new server type in Europe whatsoever.

Furthermore fragmenting the population further instead of fixing the main game design is something I won't support anymore.

 

[Kaun_IA]

uu.. this is something that should have happened 2 years back.. might resub in US to see it