Politics Coronavirus

[Moriath]

Can you even read that graph @Job?

Owt to say @Bodhi?


@Moriath - if you could source the one of comparative infection rates we could shit this argument down on data

Source is on the picture. And all the places the data cake from in the legend.

 

[Aoami]

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking for a lockdown. I just follow guidance and use my common sense (shame that lots of others don't). My concern is the downplaying of just how deadly Covid-19 is.

This is the big problem. I'm completely against a new lockdown, I just don't think the country can take it. But, people are just taking the piss with the rules. The NHS can't take a beating from tens of thousands of cases, the economy can't take another battering from lockdown. How fucking hard is it to put a mask on, keep a sensible distance, and go about your life pretty much as normal? People are upset at the "nanny state" but if people can't follow basic instruction, what else can the government do?

 

[Scouse]

I agree with Bodhi's point of view - just like all data / statistics they can be manipulated to support any view point and yes Scouse your lack of agreement with WHO now they have modified their view is noticable.

Might be to you, but I've not been following WHO amendments, so that's news to me.

Where do me and the WHO differ?

 

[Scouse]

As I said, comparing COVID to flu isn't downplaying how deadly COVID is

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[Gwadien]

No one has answered my question.


Maybe the reason why the flu isnt as bad as everyone made out because we did something about it?

 

[Raven]

Covid deaths three times higher than flu and pneumonia

Office for National Statistics data looked at the underlying cause of death in England and Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bodhi]

Covid deaths three times higher than flu and pneumonia

Office for National Statistics data looked at the underlying cause of death in England and Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

Well done. You've found an article comparing half a weak flu season to COVID.

*golf clap*

I, for one, am now totally convinced.

 

[Scouse]

Well done. You've found an article comparing half a weak flu season to COVID.

The mortality rate for Covid-19 is also significantly higher than influenza and pneumonia rates for both 2020 and the five-year average," said Sarah Caul, from the ONS.

Do you clap so slowly because your neurones have trouble firing?

 

[Yoni]

Yes. Yes it is.

Wi

Might be to you, but I've not been following WHO amendments, so that's news to me.

Where do me and the WHO differ?

Sweden..

 

[Yoni]

No one has answered my question.


Maybe the reason why the flu isnt as bad as everyone made out because we did something about it?

We did do something about it but it took a long time and killed many many people along the way and to be honest if a very virulent strain of flu occurs again the human race as you can see from the information below could still be fucked although Corona has killed more humans with a lockdown than most of the pandemics in recent times the exception being Spanish flu.

 

[Scouse]

Sweden..

As I don't follow Sweden and the WHO's position on Sweden religiously it'd be good if you could explain what's changed rather than expecting me to just "understand" with a one-word country answer :\

And as the last time I had an opinion on Sweden was a few months ago, and that the WHO have obviously changed their position, is it beyond the ken that I may also have changed mine?

Unlike some people (*cough*@Bodhi*cough*)I don't have a fixed opinion on this (*cough*it's just like the flu*cough*) that controverts the actual evidence (*cough* it really isn't like the flu *cough*) that I desparately cling to from moment one to the end like my "right-ness" is integral to my identity, or something.

If the WHO position has changed on Sweden then great.

What is it?

 

[Yoni]

WHO has used its position on Sweden in its briefings to the UK and other countries who favoured a full lockdown so if you were indeed following WHO then I would not need to explain it to you. Basically WHO have stated that Sweden have chosen a sustainable way to manage the virus is proving to be one of the better ways of managing it and recommends their methodology.

 

[Yoni]

Seriously imagine telling the world that the families of those who scarificed themselves in a pointless war gave you corona...

Democrats rip Trump for suggesting Gold Star families could have given him Covid-19

“They come within an inch of my face, sometimes,” the president said of the families of America’s war dead.

www.politico.com

 

[Job]

When something (clear data) hits him square in the face then he has a little wobble, writes a post that is barely intelligable then carries on as normal, disregarding the thing that shook his reality...

No, I did get spanked by Guardian clickbait and didnt read the article fully.
Still its a lot more than 50%

 

[Job]

The fact that the flu and covid are in the same ballpark doesnt hold out much promise for a vaccine.

Even if the vaccine was as effective as the flu jab, which it almost undoubtedly wont be for the first few years, then a vaccine supported return to normality will include tens of thousands of yearly deaths.


All that will change is they will stop putting it in the papers.

 

[Scouse]

if you were indeed following WHO

Just FYI - I wasn't. That's something Bodhi threw in there and you agreed on.

At the beginning of the pandemic I quoted the WHO in a number of things - including their historical advice, which is still good advice. As the WHO have clearly amended their position on how to manage this unique disease as time has passed then what I'd be quoting today would be different from my position then.

As is only sensible - you take your feed from the experts.

Bodhi has been "it's no worse than flu" since the beginning and has pretty much kept that up consistently.

/shrug...

 

[Scouse]

The fact that the flu and covid are in the same ballpark doesnt hold out much promise for a vaccine.

Y'see @Yoni. Bodhi's with this retard, who can't comprehend the difference that difference facets of the diseases make in terms of overall threat.

 

[Gwadien]

Just FYI - I wasn't. That's something Bodhi threw in there and you agreed on.

At the beginning of the pandemic I quoted the WHO in a number of things - including their historical advice, which is still good advice. As the WHO have clearly amended their position on how to manage this unique disease as time has passed then what I'd be quoting today would be different from my position then.

As is only sensible - you take your feed from the experts.

Bodhi has been "it's no worse than flu" since the beginning and has pretty much kept that up consistently.

/shrug...

Absolutely this.

Let's not be complacent and let something wipe us out because Covid wasn't all that bad.

 

[Yoni]

Absolutely this.

Let's not be complacent and let something wipe us out because Covid wasn't all that bad.

That’s too dramatic - Covid is nasty but it is not going to wipe out the human race... We the human race will more than likely wipe out the human race

 

[Gwadien]

That’s too dramatic - Covid is nasty but it is not going to wipe out the human race... We the human race will more than likely wipe out the human race

Yeah I meant to say something like covid.

Because it will happen.

 

[Aoami]

My only covid conspiracy theory is that it's being treated so severely because it's being used as a trial run for something potentially much worse in the future.

 

[Gwadien]

My only covid conspiracy theory is that it's being treated so severely because it's being used as a trial run for something potentially much worse in the future.

I mean I don't think it's a conspiracy theory, I think it's the right thing to do. I mean, we only have to look at history at how much this shit fucked us up in the past.

Things are worse than they were before. The medicine advances we've made are largely irrelevant (unless we find a way to instantly prevent it) as we're so densely populated now.

 

[Scouse]

Things are worse than they were before.

Well, apart from the 300 million people who died of smallpox in the 20th Century maybe.

Or the other endemic diseases that have been cured by medical science.

 

[Zarjazz]

My only covid conspiracy theory is that it's being treated so severely because it's being used as a trial run for something potentially much worse in the future.

Well we can't be too prepared for the incoming zombie apocalypse.

 

[Gwadien]

Well, apart from the 300 million people who died of smallpox in the 20th Century maybe.

Or the other endemic diseases that have been cured by medical science.

Yeah okay, but when something hits us at an incredible speed, the first few hundred thousand people will be fine, but when hospitals go over capacity that's where our modern medicine will become largely irrelevant.

 

[Scouse]

Well we can't be too prepared for the incoming zombie apocalypse.

I'd be great at that. The zombie apocalypse.

I'd own it

 

[Raven]

I'm not a real prepper by any means (some of them are nuts!) but I have quite a large, well stored stock of dried and tinned food, booze, medical stuff etc probably enough to live on for 3-4 months atm but I stock it up now and again. Plus a load of water treatment stuff and a generator. Along with all that I have taught myself carpentry and various other useful things, gardening, plastering, some rudimentary plumbing and electrics and how to shoot/hunt small game, rabbits, pigeons, squirrels etc.

Even in lockdown it's handy to know how to be as self sufficient as possible.

Quite a lot of people are saying that the more we encroach on nature en mass the more nasty shit we are going to dig up and with the world getting smaller and smaller nasty shit will spread quickly.

 

[Bodhi]

As I don't follow Sweden and the WHO's position on Sweden religiously it'd be good if you could explain what's changed rather than expecting me to just "understand" with a one-word country answer :\

And as the last time I had an opinion on Sweden was a few months ago, and that the WHO have obviously changed their position, is it beyond the ken that I may also have changed mine?

Unlike some people (*cough*@Bodhi*cough*)I don't have a fixed opinion on this (*cough*it's just like the flu*cough*) that controverts the actual evidence (*cough* it really isn't like the flu *cough*) that I desparately cling to from moment one to the end like my "right-ness" is integral to my identity, or something.

If the WHO position has changed on Sweden then great.

What is it?

More wilful misreading of what I said - FH's king of the straw man. I have said repeatedly, so I will say it again seeing as you appear too dumb to read properly - it is a completely different family of viruses from the flu (Corona vs Influenza), in fact if you want to compare it to other respiratory illnesses it's closer to a cold (30% of them are Coronaviruses). However in terms of fatality rate it is slap bang in the same ballpark according the WHO last week. You can argue semantics all you want, but if you use the numbers they quoted, the IFR is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2. This is fairly basic epidemiology here, and how we've worked out the fatality rate for centuries.

By the way as @Yoni has posted, when flu gets pandemic then it is more than capable of making COVID look like a blip, so any concept of trying to "belittle" something by comparing it to the flu is just absolute nonsense.

If the numbers change I'll happily change my mind, but as the IFR for COVID has been dropping since March I really don't think I will have to.

 

[Bodhi]

I'm not a real prepper by any means (some of them are nuts!) but I have quite a large, well stored stock of dried and tinned food, booze, medical stuff etc probably enough to live on for 3-4 months atm but I stock it up now and again. Plus a load of water treatment stuff and a generator. Along with all that I have taught myself carpentry and various other useful things, gardening, plastering, some rudimentary plumbing and electrics and how to shoot/hunt small game, rabbits, pigeons, squirrels etc.

Even in lockdown it's handy to know how to be as self sufficient as possible.

Quite a lot of people are saying that the more we encroach on nature en mass the more nasty shit we are going to dig up and with the world getting smaller and smaller nasty shit will spread quickly.

Sorry, but that makes you a real prepper.

And an absolute fucking loon tbh.

 

[Scouse]

in terms of fatality rate it is slap bang in the same ballpark according the WHO last week. You can argue semantics all you want, but if you use the numbers they quoted, the IFR is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2.

I've been searching for WHO releases from the past week but I can't find owt.

You got a link?

BTW - cursory read up - IFR is not a great comparison between the two, as you're much more likely to become symptomatic with Covid as opposed to flu. It looks, like many things, to be an inadequate metric to use as a comparison between the two as it doesn't tell the whole story.