Politics Coronavirus

[Job]

The biggest lingering from this pandemic will be the change of attitude to the constant spray of bodily fluids we share with each other, every time you look at human existence closely youre going to find things you dont like.
We put up with having to take a dump and most people dont think of the rivers of shit running in the pipes under our feet, plus most people sort of know that peoples spit might well be landing on your face as you talk to each other.
You might get a bad look for sneezing on a bus without containing it.

But now everythings changed and face masks are here for good in shops, public transport and buildings, its just the obvious end game for health and safety..duty of care...this man breathed on me officer, have you got your app..your vaccine certificate, whats your temperature?
Your client knowingly and recklessly exposed himself to an infection and failed to isolate.
Clearly the sneeze was directed in her direction.
Your mask filter is out of test.
Sir, would you like to follow us to a sanitisation booth.

All visitors must use the sheep dip.

 

[Job]

Scouse I know youre desperate to gind that covid is worse than the flu, and I know I always said we would find out by christmas, but now it looks like this is going to drag on till at least April.
The fatility rate is going to be 0.01 by then.

 

[Bodhi]

I've been searching for WHO releases from the past week but I can't find owt.

You got a link?

BTW - cursory read up - IFR is not a great comparison between the two, as you're much more likely to become symptomatic with Covid as opposed to flu. It looks, like many things, to be an inadequate metric to use as a comparison between the two as it doesn't tell the whole story.

Ah, you're making the usual schoolboy error of conflating Case Fatality Rates and Infection Fatality Rate. IFR is how likely are you to pass away if you catch it, CFR is (usually) how likely you are to pass away after you've required medical attention. As the definition of a case has changed since March (then it was people who needed medical attention, now it's anyone who tests positive), it's not really that useful a metric when comparing two diseases. However overall IFR is the standard for comparing how deadly particular diseases are in the general population, as it includes asymptmatic cases, both the sick and the well, etc.

Case fatality rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The mortality rate  —  often confused with the CFR  —  is a measure of the relative number of deaths (either in general, or due to a specific cause) within the entire population per unit of time.[2] A CFR, in contrast, is the number of dead among the number of diagnosed cases only.[3]

So if we're looking at general population risk, then IFR is the one we need.

(As an aside check out the CFR for Ebola - thank fuck it isn't that doing the rounds - then all the panic would be justified imo)

Not entirely sure I'd agree people with SARS-COV2 are more likely to be symptomatic either - latest research on positive test results had 86% of people didn't have the 3 classic symptoms, and 77 percent had no symptoms at all.

Vast majority infected with coronavirus are asymptomatic when tested, study finds

UCL scientist find 86 per cent did not have a cough, temperature of loss of taste or smell - 77 per cent of those tested showed no symptoms

www.telegraph.co.uk

Yet for flu: Three-quarters of people with flu have no symptoms

Not much in those numbers either

So as ever, saying it's just a flu is incorrect - it's a different virus family completely. However there are a number of striking similarities between the two.

 

[Scouse]

Ah, you're making the usual schoolboy error of conflating Case Fatality Rates and Infection Fatality Rate. IFR is how likely are you to pass away if you catch it, CFR is (usually) how likely you are to pass away after you've required medical attention.

No I'm not. The cursory reading I did was very clear on that.

And that IFR is also not a very useful metric for comparisons on a threat comparison of the viruses.

So if we're looking at general population risk, then IFR is the one we need.

The important things are here are his updates at the end of the article from september & october.

So as ever, saying it's just a flu is incorrect - it's a different virus family completely. However there are a number of striking similarities between the two.

There are indeed striking similarities between respiratory illnesses. But there are striking differences too.

Either way - if you think they're useful or not - where we're on common ground @Bodhi is - we all fucking hate the lockdowns.

 

[Bodhi]

No I'm not. The cursory reading I did was very clear on that.

And that IFR is also not a very useful metric for comparisons on a threat comparison of the viruses.


The important things are here are his updates at the end of the article from september & october.


There are indeed striking similarities between respiratory illnesses. But there are striking differences too.

Either way - if you think they're useful or not - where we're on common ground @Bodhi is - we all fucking hate the lockdowns.

Not sure how to rate this post, as I think we can agree to disagree on the fatality rate part, but vehemently agree on the lockdown part.

Considering the collateral damage of lockdown is threatening to outweigh the damage from the virus - there has to be a better way. Just a shame TPTB aren't interested in looking at it.

 

[Moriath]

Not sure how to rate this post, as I think we can agree to disagree on the fatality rate part, but vehemently agree on the lockdown part.

Considering the collateral damage of lockdown is threatening to outweigh the damage from the virus - there has to be a better way. Just a shame TPTB aren't interested in looking at it.

Comes down to how you value human life, at all ages and what therefore is an acceptable trade off.
if life is sacrosanct then nothing should be more valuable than a life and everything should be done for even one death prevented.

 

[Bodhi]

Comes down to how you value human life, at all ages and what therefore is an acceptable trade off.
if life is sacrosanct then nothing should be more valuable than a life and everything should be done for even one death prevented.

Herd immunity could have saved more lives than lockdown, study suggests

Researchers from Edinburgh University reassessed Imperial modelling that showed half a million people would die

www.telegraph.co.uk

Looks like we should have stuck with our original strategy in that case.

 

[Job]

It would seem its taken the destruction of the western economy to prove that lockdowns just put off the inevitable, I guess its the first major victim of public opinion that reached far beyond angry from Peckham in the Times and now shapes world democratic government policy.

Hardly anyone is dying so theyve moved on to cases, Liverpool is going under tier three lockdown.
600 people have 'died' of covid in the city in total.
That figure includes deaths with covid.

The death toll from lockdown is bound to exceed that by a factor possibly in double digits

600 people have now died with coronavirus in Liverpool

600 people have now died with Covid-19 in Liverpool and deaths are rising across the city region

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[caLLous]

If you put died in quotes that implies that you don't think they really died.

 

[Moriath]

Herd immunity could have saved more lives than lockdown, study suggests

Researchers from Edinburgh University reassessed Imperial modelling that showed half a million people would die

www.telegraph.co.uk

Looks like we should have stuck with our original strategy in that case.

No one can know if one option would have saved more than another. They can model and introduce different aggravating factors but no one will know for sure. All we can say is this way this happened.
its easy to say do this or do that. But until its done we dont know.

should have would have .. all we have it today forward

 

[BloodOmen]

Herd immunity is only relavent for people not considered high risk.... yes, it would have helped but high risk people would be still fucked.

 

[Job]

No..if we achieve herd immunity then the level of virus in the population drastically reduces.

This Indy article starts off saying we need vaccination for herd immunity, but strangely its the vaccintion group saying that.hmmmmm
Then they go on to say you can get it naturally but obviously thats going to cause more deaths.

But if you shield the vulnerable, let everyone catch it, then they can re enter society surely.

What is herd immunity and could it work in the UK?

When enough people are immune to a disease, this can reduce the likelihood of it spreading, resulting in herd immunity

www.google.com

 

[Raven]

Yes, if you kill all the people early then you will find death rates later on to be much smaller.

 

[Job]

Which is what they are doing very slowly and very expensively.

 

[Scouse]

*sigh* I shouldn't have to say this at this point, but:

There's no evidence that people simply can't get this more than once yet. And some people have gotten it more than once.

That's why herd immunity was abandoned.

 

[Job]

That is still up for confirmation.
Very rare and yet to be proven.

Why scientists are still divided on immunity to Covid-19 - and what the NHS says

Matt Hancock said in September that 'credible' cases of coronavirus reinfection were being investigated by scientists

www.google.com

But if course thats irrelevent , they didnt know for sure when it started and it would be a brave country that stuck to a much lower level of shutdown...cough..sweden...
Im seeing the start of a bend towards herd again, with those scientists signing a petition that turned out to be a bit dodgy and widely rejected.

Climate Science Denial Network Behind Great Barrington Declaration – Byline Times

The ‘think-tank’ behind the Great Barrington Declaration is part-funded by right-wing American billionaire Charles Koch

bylinetimes.com

But it WAS a thing and is not a crackpot idea, its just not politically sustainable.
Though Im pretty sure they are going to sneak it in as something else because once we reach lockdown 20 and weve borrowed a trillion, something has to give.

 

[Job]

Corona spread up to October

 

[Job]

Wtf is going on, now we have the WHO saying dont lock down as the primary reaction.

Followed by us going into lockdown as the primary reaction..

WHO Official Urges Halt to Lockdowns as Primary CCP Virus Control Method

The World Health Organization’s special envoy on COVID-19 has urged world leaders to stop using lockdowns as the primary control method against the spread of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) virus, commonly known as the novel coronavirus. “We in the World Health Organization do not advocate...

mb.ntd.com

 

[Gwadien]

Wtf is going on, now we have the WHO saying dont lock down as the primary reaction.

Followed by us going into lockdown as the primary reaction..

WHO Official Urges Halt to Lockdowns as Primary CCP Virus Control Method

The World Health Organization’s special envoy on COVID-19 has urged world leaders to stop using lockdowns as the primary control method against the spread of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) virus, commonly known as the novel coronavirus. “We in the World Health Organization do not advocate...

mb.ntd.com

What is the Chinese Community Party Virus?

Ohh, I see New Tang Dynasty Television - Wikipedia

Job could you please say where you get all your news from because you find the most bizarre of sources.

 

[caLLous]

Handing £122m PPE contract to Tory peer associate is the "definition of corruption" - MP says

The London Economic - PPE Medpro - which has no history of delivering PPE - also has two directors resident in the Isle of Man - Politics

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[Job]

What is the Chinese Community Party Virus?

Ohh, I see New Tang Dynasty Television - Wikipedia

Job could you please say where you get all your news from because you find the most bizarre of sources.

Its an interview he did with Andrew Marr and he's the WHO special envoy for covid.

Dr David Nabarro (@davidnabarro) on Twitter

But feel free to ignore it because the link is foreign.

 

[Job]

Symptoms of Covid-19 are a poor marker of infection

86% of people who tested positive for Covid-19 during lockdown did not have virus symptoms (cough, and/or fever, and/or loss of taste/smell), finds a study by UCL researchers. The authors say a more widespread testing programme is needed to catch ‘silent’ transmission.

www.ucl.ac.uk

 

[Job]

So itv went to interview people in Liverpool.

They interviewed a female black bar owner, probably the only black female bar owner in the city, then two other black people...and that was it

Liverpool is 96% white.
They must have asked around for a black bar owner and waited for two black people to walk but and grab them.
I know its black history month and all.

But..cmon, just stop it, we dont live in an ideology.

 

[Job]

So thats it, tier3 lockdown.

Just gonna ride my bike everyday and get pissed every night.

 

[Job]

It begins...the 80s is back, the virus has unleashed a zombie.

 

[Gwadien]

I currently have a cold.

When you have a cold, it makes it 100x worse when you're paranoid you actually have covid.

 

[Gwadien]

It begins...the 80s is back, the virus has unleashed a zombie.

View attachment 42769

Tbh though - Regardless of your views on Covid and if we are over-reacting, you can't have local government in control over decisions, otherwise there would be zero point doing anything at all.

 

[Job]

I truly think this has changed the world order, or at least vastly sped it up.

Europe is fucked physically and mentally, the very things we hold dear have undone us.
Weve been building a house of sand since the war and weve just shafted 5 generations to save a few very old people and introduced a new normal of compliance and government control.

Its coming up to 5 years since the brexit vote and as Ive always said , it will never happen.
Guarantee they're using psychologists to work out the absolute sweet spot to say its called off and a new relationship with Europe will replace it.

 

[Ormorof]

I currently have a cold.

When you have a cold, it makes it 100x worse when you're paranoid you actually have covid.

I have, as the doctor called it, a "non specific respiratory infection". Ie not corona and not flu and not bronchitis. So far ive been coughing for 6 weeks, had 2 corona tests, endless throat swabs, blood tests but cant shake it. I am a social pariah at home all the time but have to admit i kinda like it

 

[Yoni]

I currently have a cold.

When you have a cold, it makes it 100x worse when you're paranoid you actually have covid.

How do you know it is just a cold? Why are you not getting tested? . be part of the solution rather than making assumptions about your medical health. I also have symptoms of a cold and cv19 however it is process here to get a test which I have ordered and am now waiting for.