Compulsory Prayer

[nath]

and this is a Christian country. At least you don't live in lets say Pakistan where some of their school are little more than a days worth of reciting the Koran, and im sure if the kids there say they don't want to pray in the morning they get a little more than a slap on the wrist.

Are you sure about that or are you just spouting anti middle-eastern rhetoric?

Also, it may be a different issue entirely but I don't think this country should be associated with any religion whatsoever. I don't care if it's in our past and it's our heritage - I still think religion and state should be two TOTALLY seperate entities with no links whatsoever. Kind of like how America says it is (and clearly isn't).

 

[Furr]

Very sure, I did say "some", but there are many school out there especially in the villages where Islam is the the most important thing, learning things such as science, geography etc is not the primary focus of going to school.

The things about separation of state of church i agree with. But then the American model seems to be that religion is the real world is taboo while in politics its a must... i would have thought that religion was mean to be in the doman of the public.....

 

[throdgrain]

Are you sure about that or are you just spouting anti middle-eastern rhetoric?

Also, it may be a different issue entirely but I don't think this country should be associated with any religion whatsoever. I don't care if it's in our past and it's our heritage - I still think religion and state should be two TOTALLY seperate entities with no links whatsoever. Kind of like how America says it is (and clearly isn't).

How about how France is?

 

[rynnor]

In my entire time at senior school (11-18) we never had a religious assembly - in fact we didnt have any kind of daily assembly full stop - naughty really as its mandated by law but I guess they preferred to try and teach in that time ;P

Its an anachronism that will eventually disappear given time.

 

[Stazbumpa]

If so, then why are we allowing religious schools to proliferate?

 

[rynnor]

If so, then why are we allowing religious schools to proliferate?

Because the government is 100% wrong on this policy - its the most stupidly divisive thing they could possibly do - sometimes you have to wonder if the policy makers are actually living in the real world I mean come on ffs!!!

 

[Stazbumpa]

Er....can't decide if you're being sarcastic or not

 

[Tom]

England can't separate religion and state, as our head of state is also head of the Church of England.

 

[ECA]

England can't separate religion and state, as our head of state is also head of the Church of England.

Yes we can, just change from a monarchy to a republic or federation, or if you like, despotism.

 

[fatbusinessman]

Easy way around that: depose the royal family.

 

[Furr]

alternativly people who don't like the way the UK works can go live in the US, They don't have prayer in school but have to do the oath of allegance(sic?) instead.

 

[ECA]

oh god, not that line.

"IF YOU DONT LIKE THE COUNTRY THEN WHY DONT YOU EMIGRATE</rightwingfoxnewstroll>"

 

[Trem]

It didn't read like that to me, furr was giving an example. Your reaction was worse than what furr said ECA.

I am very pissed btw.

That geezer in your avatar ECA, hes out of Brother ain't he?

Quality film.

NURSE!!!!

 

[ECA]

That geezer in your avatar ECA, hes out of Brother ain't he?

Quality film.

NURSE!!!!

Yup its Takeshi Kitano.

 

[Furr]

oh god, not that line.

"IF YOU DONT LIKE THE COUNTRY THEN WHY DONT YOU EMIGRATE</rightwingfoxnewstroll>"

Oh god!


oh wait......it "wasn't" that line...... so calm down,

To be honest I don't really care, I've been to obviously Christian Schools since day 1 and when/if I have kids I know which school im sending them to anyway, its been around for just under 500 years years so im pretty sure that in 8-18 years time its still going to be doing a top job just as it always has.

Now don't get me wrong Im not a Christian I probably on the border of Atheist or Agnostic but even so In my case I appreciated the extra culture and also sense of community that the religion in my school gave, when you are surrounded by a school that keeps alive its history, has a resonably unobtrusive but obvious religious angle it means that the option is there for the people at the school who wish to become fully religious can, you might ask why Islam or Judasim isn't an option, its just not as in the same reason I wasn't brought up to be French, admitidly it was boarding but that just meant that the aspect of relgion was an important component.

Basically this country is great, bad things happens, there are loads of crap areas where the peasants who have been empowered by the goverment are breeding like mad. Just try and avoid those areas and let them kill and bottle each other. Or if your police service are good like mine and a bunch of chavs are for somereason in your area just call them and say a bunch of hooded youths are acting suspicous and the police will be there to move them on. nice

 

[Louster]

It sure is interesting how all the right-wing people on here seem to be well-off and come from well-off families. Funny, that.

Edit: and I'm sure someone's going to come along to prove this wrong, but it does rather seem like a majority correlation.

 

[throdgrain]

Bollocks

In fact, double bollocks !

In my experience, the wooly cardigan brigade more often than not come from middle class families. Those are the kids with some education, some brain, and a desire to think about whats going on in the world. Unfortunately they often come up with a bizzare idealised veiw of "right and wrong".
The real chavs aint got time or inclination, or brain, to think about such things.
I know this, I was one of the former.

Postscript.
When I was a lad of 18 or 20 or so, I used to argue endlessly with my dad about such matters as are often debated on here, particularly at this time of year, when we met up .
I was passionately convinced I was right, and that my dad was a right wing looney. He used to say "when you're 20, you think with your heart, and when you're 40, you think with your head."
I didnt know at the time, and niether do you lot now, but he was so fucking right chaps, he was so fucking right.

 

[Louster]

Yeah see, that edit was pretty much aimed directly at you. Furr, there, is talking about boarding school, and Big G is forever going on about cars and whatever, and Tom similarly (HE'S A CAMERAMAN DON'T YOU KNOW!!). And, apart from you, they're the biggest proponents of this point of view, at the moment.

And seriously, trying to play the 'age' card? That's pretty dumb. I know a lot of older folk who aren't "right wing" at all - claiming that it's the "right" thing to think just because you've changed your views isn't terribly convincing.

 

[old.user4556]

You wouldn't believe the volume of car related stuff I got for chrimbo; two supercar calenders, a 'history of sports cars' book, new "silver" indicator bulbs for my Bavarian saloon, a remote control Lancer Evo 9, a Clarkson "heaven and hell" DVD .... other car things; even a piggy bank for saving up a deposit for a new car!

Yes, you could say I talk a lot of bollocks about cars.

Do I come across as a right winger, Louster? How do you perceive me politically?

 

[Louster]

Yeah, somewhat right-wing, though maybe not as extreme as some of the others here. In fact, I'm not entirely sure where I've got this view from, now - but yes, you've always been marked in my brain as being right-wing. For some reason.

 

[nath]

and Tom similarly (HE'S A CAMERAMAN DON'T YOU KNOW!!).

lol

 

[old.user4556]

Yes I do have a lot of right wing views, but my political ground shifted hugely when I saw the volume of tax I paid and the shite that it gets wasted on. But that's an issue for another thread .

 

[Moo]

just because the vast majority of us don't really believe in a specific organised religion or a certain religion's view of what / who god is - does not mean that children shouldn't have prayer in schools.

I'm not christian, but you might wonder why since

a) my dad is a vicar
b) i was made to go to church every sunday until i was 13
c) i went to a church school which had compulsary chapel every morning, and compulsary 1+ hour service every other sunday evening
d) i had prayer *gasp* in my state primary school

and yet i'm about as agnostic as they come and certainly not christian. I'm pretty sure my upbringing contains what you might describe as 'forced religion' however i still made my own choices when the time came - so why cant other people? There's a difference between showing someone a religion when they're a child and forcing them to think that way when they're an adult.

Telling children there's a god early on does not make them think there is later on in life when they become an adult and can make choices for themselves.

 

[Trem]

Yeah, somewhat right-wing, though maybe not as extreme as some of the others here. In fact, I'm not entirely sure where I've got this view from, now - but yes, you've always been marked in my brain as being right-wing. For some reason.

We are what we are. My views are my views. Saying people are right wing is the new way of saying people are racist...you know.....since saying racist became boring.

I cba.

 

[Yoni]

/rant on
Prayers, morning mass, RE, the catholic faith, were all very much a part of my growing up.

I went to catholic schools from the age of 4 till I left boarding school at 16, and do you know something, I don't look back on any of that time with disgust, hate, boredom. They were probably the happiest years of my life.. so innocent and fun. Of course I am not saying that life is bad now but imagine not having to worry about a single thing, how bad can that be.........

At the catholic boarding school I went to you didnt have to worry about:
being good at school as you had study times where there was ample time to get all your home work done.
what clothes were right to wear as you had a uniform that you wore 6 days a week, and no one cared what you wore on the 7th
what to eat as all meals were provided
money and someone having more than you, because a limit was set on pocket money (i think 50p a week) so no one had any more or less than anyone else...
being attacked as you played freely as the grounds were surrounded by massive fences, that you didnt ever notice..you just felt safe....
clean clothes etc as there were set times of the week that all clothes / bed clothes went to the laundry
friends as everyone seemed to get along without much bullying / fighting, occasionally there was one but they changed / modified themselves

In return there were several things we had to do:
Prayers every day before breakfast and assembly
early church once a week and on Sunday
Washing up for the entire school one evening / teatime per week

Although I may have gone a little mad when I left, I have been given a fantastic grounding in how to treat other people.

Answer me this....why is saying prayers about treating other people with respect compassion and kindness a bad thing for the youth of today to do.... even if they are texting on their phones (I cant say I paid attention 100% of the time) hopefully some of the messages will reach them subconciously.

I cant help but wonder if i could have children would I want them coming home chanting the "our father" or "lovely lady lumps"

/rant off

 

[Trem]

It sure is interesting how all the right-wing people on here seem to be well-off and come from well-off families. Funny, that.

Edit: and I'm sure someone's going to come along to prove this wrong, but it does rather seem like a majority correlation.

Oh yeah - most stupid thing to say EVER.

 

[Jupitus]

Telling children there's a god early on does not make them think there is later on in life when they become an adult and can make choices for themselves.

Nail, Head, Hit.

I don't see anything wrong at all in at least TRYING to instill some respect and discipline in kids today, and if that means making them sit quietly in a hall while some of them pray, maybe taking in some ideas of kindness, caring and giving, then I'm all for it.

The people with the brains to work it out for themselves later in life will do so, they're not going to be brainwashed by it FFS. I would venture that a large majority of those without the brains to make their own choice of beliefs when older are exactly the ones we want to have some discipline.

Shall we abolish it and erode away yet another of the many social environmental standards people in this country have spent the last 20 years pulling apart? More teenage pregnancy, delinquent youths and chav culture, vicar?

 

[Earl]

It sure is interesting how all the right-wing people on here seem to be well-off and come from well-off families. Funny, that.

Edit: and I'm sure someone's going to come along to prove this wrong, but it does rather seem like a majority correlation.

If you want to go down that route, i'll throw in a random argument such as this:

Maybe they became wealthy because they used their brains, so maybe they're better inclined to make a choice on which policies are best!

On the whole prayer thing, I had prayer throughout primary school and secondary school, although I didn't really take part in it at seconadry school, because I wasn't sure i believed in God, I did listen carefully and many of the teachings give people good moral values and should continue to do so as long as they're getting SOME young people in this world to adhear to civilized communities..

 

[old.user4556]

Shall we abolish it and erode away yet another of the many social environmental standards people in this country have spent the last 20 years pulling apart? More teenage pregnancy, delinquent youths and chav culture, vicar?

Agreed, i just forgot to put that in my original post.

 

[throdgrain]

And seriously, trying to play the 'age' card? That's pretty dumb. I know a lot of older folk who aren't "right wing" at all - claiming that it's the "right" thing to think just because you've changed your views isn't terribly convincing.

Sorry, I cant even remember typing that stuff, Im suprised its so well written
I wasnt playing any card though, just saying how I see it right at this moment. Its not meaning to be derogatory towards anyone, in fact I have the greatest respect for people who take the time to think about stuff , and beleive what they're saying, even if I think its wrong!